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I'm trying to determine what if any issue is from my end, as well.
Norm - I am not seeing as much degradation on my end as you are describing. However, like I said, the zoom function was used on the camera when the pictures were taken, which I know degrades the image somewhat.
However, I have suspected for some time now, that the good high resolution pics taken on my phone, are somehow being degraded when transfered to and saved to the cheap Samsung tablet my wife bought me. The scenery pics were taken on my phone but posted from my tablet. I am going to send them again here, directly from my phone and you can let me know if they are any better?
Norm - I think the fuzziness/color issues you're seeing in the scenery photos are being caused by my use of the zoom when taking the pics. There was much more zoom used in the wider angle shot with the treeline way behind all the houses. There was less zoom used on the pic across the open field where the tree line was already much closer. I think I'm seeing the one across the open field where less zoom was used as being sharper than the other one?
Chris - I am not trying to be overly critical of your images but I cannot see one single item in either the first image or the second image which is in "focus". Everything contained within both images is completely out of focus with absolutely no detail to anything contained within the images. And, I mean to say absolutely nothing.
Chris - I am not trying to be overly critical of your images but I cannot see one single item in either the first image or the second image which is in "focus". Everything contained within both images is completely out of focus with absolutely no detail to anything contained within the images. And, I mean to say absolutely nothing.
Norm - You are not hurting my feelings, you're simply stating what you're seeing on your end. I agree the scenery pics are not nearly as crisp and detailed as the car pics, but I don't think I'm seeing them as bad as you're describing them.
James - Mike - Dan - Can one or more of you guys chime in with your assessment/s of the image quality of the Fall color scenery pics? Norm and I could really use some more input from different sets of eyes and devices. Thanks!
I see what Norm sees. My guess is the phone's sensor didn't grab a spot and focus. Colors are a bit faded, but that could be from compressing the area from the phone to the distant objects, haze will be compressed, as would any other atomospheric condition.
I see what Norm sees. My guess is the phone's sensor didn't grab a spot and focus. Colors are a bit faded, but that could be from compressing the area from the phone to the distant objects, haze will be compressed, as would any other atomospheric condition.
Norm,
Samsung Galaxy Tab A
OS - 2016 Android 6.01 Marshmallow
Browser - Google 12.34.19.23.arm 64
Samsung A52 5G phone
OS - Android 11 with One UI 3.1
Browser - Google 12.42.18.23.arm 64
You're viewing your images via an Android device, which explains the disparity. The web elements & rendering of the Android & Browser are nearly 50% the rendering capability of a PC (and any Browser). That explains the difference. I viewed your images on my iPhone (just now) and they look good (OK) via Safari Browser. I generally always use my home PC (unless I'm away from home). I have an NVIDIA GeForce GT1030 GPU, 42" monitor with a refresh rate of 60Hz @ 1920x1080 resolution. A typical Android device (and most other phone devices) will demonstrate ~50% reduction in resolution. Which isn't bad, since these devices don't have the same pixels as a PC monitor. That explains the differences then. But, I could add to the fact (yes) those images were captured under zoom which renders far less clarity (detail) in a larger monitor with more pixels and higher resolution.
You're viewing your images via an Android device, which explains the disparity. The web elements & rendering of the Android & Browser are nearly 50% the rendering capability of a PC (and any Browser). That explains the difference. I viewed your images on my iPhone (just now) and they look good (OK) via Safari Browser. I generally always use my home PC (unless I'm away from home). I have an NVIDIA GeForce GT1030 GPU, 42" monitor with a refresh rate of 60Hz @ 1920x1080 resolution. A typical Android device (and most other phone devices) will demonstrate ~50% reduction in resolution. Which isn't bad, since these devices don't have the same pixels as a PC monitor. That explains the differences then. But, I could add to the fact (yes) those images were captured under zoom which renders far less clarity (detail) in a larger monitor with more pixels and higher resolution.
Norm - I understand what you're saying, but do have a question about this sentence: "A typical Android device (and most other phone devices) will demonstrate ~50% reduction in resolution. Which isn't bad, since these devices don't have the same pixels as a PC monitor." Are you saying a phone will have a 50% reduction in the device's ability to display/recreate the true resolution of the image? The reason I ask is, because the resolution of the images (scenery and cars) as taken and stored by my phone is 4000 x 2250?
Chris - Correct. The captured image resolution of 4000 x 2250 will never change. The ability to view a 4000 x 2250 resolution is dependent on the h/w & s/w employed to render any image. There are several key parameters involved in displaying (rendering) the image. I should point out we’re addressing the ability to “view” or “display” the image, this does not apply to the printing of an image. First consideration is the aspect ratio of the image. Second is the h/w & s/w employed to render any resolution (e.g. graphics card). Phones & mobile devices have less capability to negotiate aspect ratio than a PC GPU (graphics card). Third, display (pixels). Your image of 4000 x 2250 has an aspect ratio of 16:9. To accommodate that aspect ratio requires 9,000,000 pixels. Phones don’t have 9,000,000 pixels, but via h/w & s/w they create a “Viewport” for rendering images of varying aspect ratios. Phones employ VRAM for graphics rendering. It’s similar to a PC GPU but it handles memory differently than a PC GPU - generally ~50% less efficient than a PC GPU. With all that said, a phone does a respectable job of rendering an image for display.
This seems counter to what I’m suggesting by stating the image looks better on a phone screen than a large PC monitor screen, but the resultant image appears more focused on a smaller screen because it lacks the granularity of detail provided by a faster PC GPU with more monitor pixels. A larger monitor with more pixels accompanied with a faster GPU creates very detailed rendering of the original image. You can almost literally view pixels comprising the images. So, I am seeing the image (especially an image captured in zoom) with a high degree of detail. It sounds counter intuitive but the image as a whole will appear out of focus and smudged (over saturated). It isn’t out of focus, it’s being viewed in far more detail (pixel by pixel) on a larger screen with a much faster GPU.
i invite you to view those images on a full screen desktop PC to see the difference. This is one area where depending on the software program and GPU an end user can change the aspect ratio of the image to accommodate a better rendering of the image - in this case decrease the aspect ratio. I may have lost you a bit, but those things called “Viewports” are what enables mobile devices such as phones to produce excellent quality images. Counter intuitive yes, phones lack detail (compared to larger monitors with more pixels and faster GPUs). The viewer sees more detail via each pixel, so as a whole the image appears out of focus. Reduce the aspect ratio (as a phone does with the help of a Viewport), and the image appears more in focus.
You might consider the opposite effect which would not be entirely true, but take any particular image and increase its aspect ratio and it will become out of focus. Are you scrambled eggs yet? The creation of Viewports for phones and other mobile devices is a very lucrative niche in s/w design & development.
Last edited by Vintage Chief; November 11th, 2021 at 09:03 PM.
hi guys, put away truck day b4 yesterday, appears just in time, sposta have snow, but I don't see any this morn. Buddy and I are hangin' out. He is a pleasure. Yesterday we went out and I left him in his small kennel all whinin and cryin, came back about a hour later and snuck around house to listen for him- no noise. So I went in and he was asleep in his kennel. That is a great thing! He really is a great puppy, Still working on house training but he is getting there. It was a 100 yr anniversary of the starting of Veterans Day we went to, at first Veterans day was just for WWI vets then in 53 it was made for all Vets. It also had to do with the 1st unknown soldier that was buried in the Arlington Natl Cemetery. One of the speakers told young people to make sure and ask the Vets they know about their service stories. Made me think, if a youngun asked mw about my service... "well partied alot in San Diego, and at the stops overseas, worked on equipment on a ship...." I love to go to the Veteran stuff but so many times feel so unworthy of complements, etc.. Yeah it was a cake walk for me.. Last night watched the MASH final show again. It was fun, Man that seems like only yesterday but was alot of years ago. Ralph's pics looked fine on my end.
Chris
i invite you to view those images on a full screen desktop PC to see the difference.
Norm - I'm pretty sure I understood at least 95% of your explanation and I appreciate you taking the time to explain it! I don't own a full screen desktop PC anymore, the best I have is a newer 17" screen laptop. I'm assuming I should be able demonstrate the differences you have described on the laptop, just maybe not to the degree you would see on a desktop PC with larger HD monitor?
hi guys, put away truck day b4 yesterday, appears just in time, sposta have snow, but I don't see any this morn. Buddy and I are hangin' out. He is a pleasure. Yesterday we went out and I left him in his small kennel all whinin and cryin, came back about a hour later and snuck around house to listen for him- no noise. So I went in and he was asleep in his kennel. That is a great thing! He really is a great puppy, Still working on house training but he is getting there. It was a 100 yr anniversary of the starting of Veterans Day we went to, at first Veterans day was just for WWI vets then in 53 it was made for all Vets. It also had to do with the 1st unknown soldier that was buried in the Arlington Natl Cemetery. One of the speakers told young people to make sure and ask the Vets they know about their service stories. Made me think, if a youngun asked mw about my service... "well partied alot in San Diego, and at the stops overseas, worked on equipment on a ship...." I love to go to the Veteran stuff but so many times feel so unworthy of complements, etc.. Yeah it was a cake walk for me.. Last night watched the MASH final show again. It was fun, Man that seems like only yesterday but was alot of years ago. Ralph's pics looked fine on my end.
Greg - Good to hear Buddy is acclimating to his new environment. Excellent recap in describing Veteran's Day. WD40 is good stuff when used correctly.
Norm - I'm pretty sure I understood at least 95% of your explanation and I appreciate you taking the time to explain it! I don't own a full screen desktop PC anymore, the best I have is a newer 17" screen laptop. I'm assuming I should be able demonstrate the differences you have described on the laptop, just maybe not to the degree you would see on a desktop PC with larger HD monitor?
Chris - Good morning. I'm going to perform a little test on some captured images. I'm not the best at understanding the underlying workflows associated with h/w, s/w, bit rate, Viewport, aspect ratio & resolution as they relate to image viewing. There are just far too many variables for me to think about. I have enough knowledge in those areas to be dangerous - I get enough of it to get by. I've tried to understand them over the years, but it was never my forte for sure. I can follow most of the logic as I'm sure most can, but how images are rendered on various devices is an entirely different ballgame.
hi guys, put away truck day b4 yesterday, appears just in time, sposta have snow, but I don't see any this morn. Buddy and I are hangin' out. He is a pleasure.
Greg - Boy, that sure sounds like the Michigan I remember, "sposta have snow" in mid-November. Remember many a Thanksgiving with at least a dusting of snow on the ground. I'm glad you're enjoying Buddy and that he's progressing with his potty training and is tolerating his kennel. Don't sell yourself short on your military service, you served and could have been thrust into harm's way at any given time!
Chris - This is enjoyable for me, but takes work. I enjoy learning how image formatting works and the various programs which enable image manipulation/formatting, etc. but it will rob our thread of content if I stay on this subject; so I'll just post one more image and call it a day with a quick synopsis:
(1) I don't have access to your original images to validate several scenarios (which is no big deal for our discussion), but I have access to thousands of my own. Your original is 4000 x 2250. I can only get that resolution if I had your original file (obviously). The file I see on my PC is the only file I have access to (as would be the case for any end-user on any device, PC, phone, tablet, laptop, etc) and the size of the file would vary on all those various devices. The image I can manipulate was determined via what was presented to me on my PC (e.g. Right-Click, Save Image As). That image (Save Image As) was rendered 1300 x 731, 72 dpi horiz, 72 dpi vert, w/ a bit depth of 24, file size = 168kB. Far, far, far less than your original captured image of 4000 x 2250 (16:9 aspect ratio).
(2) So, several things come into play: (a) original file was changed by CO to accommodate viewing on a website. CO changed the resolution, bit rate/depth, dpi, resolution to accommodate viewing and the file was rendered far, far, far from its original state. Think about that huge loss of quality. I'll bet your original file has a size of ~3MB - 5MB, the file seen by an end-user is rendered to 168kB.
(3) I (or any end-user) can only manipulate that file based upon the captured state (168kB, with far, far, far less resolution, dpi, bit depth, aspect ratio, etc.) and then my ability to change parameters is only as good as the s/w I employ to manipulate the image.
(4) The h/w & s/w you used to capture the file (image) will differ from h/w & s/w others will use to capture the same file (image). Obviously anyone with identical Android and setup identically will remain the same. Yet, the h/w & s/w employed to capture the original will always make a difference. Once that's done (I'm getting there hang on), the ability to reconstruct that file is dependent on the CO website (for converting the file) and rendering it viewable in a web browser; then, (almost done) their is the aspect of the end-user's ability to render that already reconstructed CO file (image) onto their device (PC, laptop, tablet, phone, etc.). Tons of interplay but you get the idea.
So, the picture (image) below I rendered at 400 x 225 (maintaining same aspect ratio), same dpi of 72 dpi, bit depth same @ 24 bit depth. And, recall the image I am manipulating is only as good as the image I was able to capture from my browser which was displayed at 1300 x 731 (68kB).
Great conversation which I really enjoy, but takes forever when manipulating image files. I find it cool stuff to learn, but it's time consuming. I'm interested in seeing how each displays after I upload these images.
First image: I took the image I captured and increased it to 4000 x 2250 (for $HITS & GIGGLES). Remember, the image I saved (Save Image As) was 1300 x 731 (168kB)
Second image: Same image I captured (168kB) I rendered to 400 x 225, 72 dpi, bit depth 24, file size = 87.4kB.
Third image: Your original image posted on CO captured on my equipment (1300 x 731), 168kB, 72 dpi, bit depth 24.
Chris - This is enjoyable for me, but takes work. I enjoy learning how image formatting works and the various programs which enable image manipulation/formatting, etc. but it will rob our thread of content if I stay on this subject; so I'll just post one more image and call it a day with a quick synopsis
Norm - I appreciate your sleuthing! I could not see much, if any, differences in the quality of the 3 images you posted. I agree, let's put this discussion to bed.
Norm - Thanks for thinking of me. I'm 99.9% sure the first Indian models to have the Ride Command Touch Screen Unit were 2017 models, I missed it by a year.
UPDATE - I verified Ride Command units started in 2017 on Roadmaster and Chieftain models.
Last edited by Dream67Olds442; November 12th, 2021 at 08:49 AM.
James - That looks delicious. I'm not sure what I'm eating this evening since it's being dictated to me. I'm in an ABCD tournament tomorrow at our club, registration includes comedy night this evening, pairings party tonight, lunch and drinks tomorrow during play. Enjoy your jambalaya.
The pork tenderloin was delicious, the chicken marsala tasted like a piece of leather from a red mule's A$$, mashed red potatoes were good, the vegetable mix wasn't bad, desserts were good & the Bombay + tonic made me forget about the chick marsala. Got my pairings for tomorrow's tournament. This ABCD is always a fun tournament. Entirely Superball - no handicap. IMO, if you can't have fun playing in this format you should take up basket weaving.
Wasn't too long ago that there was still some light in the sky at this time of the evening. Right now it's been dark for about 3 hours. Makes me think I'm back on midnights.
Got out of work around 1230 today, too late for the Awful house. So I came home and had lunch with my puppy. Planned a big afternoon of digging stuff out of the crawlspace. Didn't do it. My friend Leo called and he's always good for about 2 hours on the phone. Today was no exception. I hate that I didn't get anything done, but I love talking to Leo. I'll try again tomorrow.
I didn't have anything exotic for my dinner, just soup. Heck, I was even out of store bought egg nog. We might do something fun tomorrow night.
Nice out all day, and the rain we were supposed to get last night didn't amount to much. Hope it's nice tomorrow, I know it will be chilly. That's okay, I have a jacket.
Oh I looked it up and it's Veterans Day, without an apostrophe.
Have a good evening everyone. I'm tired, I think I'll hit the sack early.
The pork tenderloin was delicious, the chicken marsala tasted like a piece of leather from a red mule's A$$, mashed red potatoes were good, the vegetable mix wasn't bad, desserts were good & the Bombay + tonic made me forget about the chick marsala. Got my pairings for tomorrow's tournament. This ABCD is always a fun tournament. Entirely Superball - no handicap. IMO, if you can't have fun playing in this format you should take up basket weaving.
Ah, a man after my own heart, gin & tonic, my favorite mixed drink, especially in the summer time. I'm partial to Tanqueray, then Gordons, I've never had Bombay that I know of. Just got done with what is a very, very late dinner for me. Just picked up some McDonalds for myself on the way home from my Grandson's basketball practice. The boys were not nearly as attentive tonight as they were the first 2 practices, but I have to remember they are only 3rd and 4th graders. Still was a good time though, a helluva lot more fun than sitting at home on my ****!
Ah, a man after my own heart, gin & tonic, my favorite mixed drink, especially in the summer time. I'm partial to Tanqueray, then Gordons, I've never had Bombay that I know of. Just got done with what is a very, very late dinner for me. Just picked up some McDonalds for myself on the way home from my Grandson's basketball practice. The boys were not nearly as attentive tonight as they were the first 2 practices, but I have to remember they are only 3rd and 4th graders. Still was a good time though, a helluva lot more fun than sitting at home on my ****!
OMG Watching eight & nine year olds playing basketball is fun. Have to love that.
November 11th, 2021, 03:31 PM
