Kenneth - I sure as hell hope you have a great job and a great pension coming your way, and those are your ONLY REASONS for still living there!!! I love Summer, and I really don't mind the Summer heat here, I'd much rather have it than Winterlike weather. However, extended periods of over 95° are just too much!

 

Dentist this morning, work, then haircut. Got home to do more cleaning out of the porch. Walked in, turned on fan and light, one more wasp. Blasted his ***, then went to work. Heard buzzing and noticed them in the gutter corner of the porch and main roofs. Putting a nest in a gutter is dumb, guys; I got the hose and drowned it all. This is what a month of no rain does. Found three more wasps, nailed them. Ran out of Spectracide and got my Hot Shot Fogger can. Killed one with it (these were all on the screen of the porch, easy to see and deal with. Got a ladder, and, mindful of last year of falling on my *** when stung by a wasp, I snuck up there, grabbed some pictures, and found what was left of the nest and one wasp who was hurting, and emptied the can on him.

One wasp remained and he'd buzz me whenever I went that way. Hopefully his woman is dead on that nest and he can die via his chemical romance like that shitty band. Tomorrow, I will get more Spectracide and keep hunting wasps. I think I have killed 8 now this week.

 

A month? As in 30 days? Dang, around here it doesn’t rain for 3 to 4 months or more. They’d have taken over and pushed all humans out before the next rain.

 

Nothing like the smell of Spectracide sprayed in the morning . . . It smells like Victory!
Kill em . . . Kill em all!

 

Good morning everyone.

And we sit. We came in at 6 this morning and cleared up all the wheels that were ready. We're done with all of them now and that's it. So we'll do nothing the rest of the day. If we wanted to play the I'm Traumatized card we could probably go. I'm good. If I stay I get paid.

The wasps haven't been so bad this year, even though we haven't had a lot of rain. I have cans of Raid all over the house and yard, and even one in the big truck and the back of the pickup. I lifted the hood of the Mercedes the other day and there was a big nest. I reached for the can in the pickup and made short order of them. Usually I don't bother bugs if they're outside, but wasps are an exception. They are ********.

Brought the car to work, and even though I brought lunch I may go out, just because. Hell I could go now and come back at 2 and still be okay. After work Tiger has to go to jail. We're leaving early tomorrow for our trip up home. My ancestral home. Is it ancestral if I actually lived there?

Okay gonna go for a walk. Maybe hit the ATM. Hope everyone has a good day.

 

Mike - Safe travels, you're going to be driving a fair piece. I know it is considerably out of your way, but was just wondering if you were going to swing by and see your Brother on your way there?

 

Hadn't planned on it, though I'm gonna ask Mom if she wants to. Maybe we could meet half way between Wood River and whatever highway we're on. I was gonna go get a rear end from Jamesbo and bring it to you if you needed it but turns out you don't. That's okay too. Mapquest says it's 12 hours. As many times as Mom wants to stop I'll be lucky to get there in three days.

It has been awhile since Norm's been here. Maybe the deal on the bike went through and he's sobbing in his pillow in grief from missing it already.

 

Mike - Thank you so much for the thought of bringing me the Rear End from Jim if I was still in need, incredibly thoughtful of you! I am going to PM you my cell phone number so it will be easier for us to communicate if you decide to swing over this direction to see your Brother. Please send me your cell number in return so I can put it in my contacts so I know it is you that is texting or calling. I don't respond to calls or texts I don't recognize. Please let me know as soon as you have a plan if it materializes.
Thanks,
Chris

 

What rear does that thing have in it, anyway? The one under mine is 3.08 limited slip and I have a spare from the late Ed Skaff of the same. The open version was standard for automatics that year.

 

Okay Chris back at you. I haven't looked at a map, but I'm assuming I'll take 74 out of Indy and up to the Quad Cities. The GPS might have a better way.

Went to lunch since I have the car with me, and got a late start and the place was packed. I'm glad to see that, actually, because when I usually go, before 11, it's quiet as a church mouse in there and I'm always afraid they won't make any money and go out of business. That's tough for a new business. But the place was rockin' and I got back a half hour late. So I parked at a different door and entered the shop from the other direction. Boy am I sneaky. We're still not doing anything so what does it matter.

Somebody must have found some wheels because the rail is moving. I'm at 7 right now, got one coming, but I won't make 10. The operation is going to be hurting for wheels here if we don't get something done pretty quick. Eh, above my pay grade.

 

John - Using both the manual rotate the tire vs. Drive Shaft rotations method, and the formula for calculating Rear End Ratio using tire size/rpm's/speed, both methods are consistent with it being 3.55's with anti-spin. Next closest would be 3.42's which were only available in the HD Rear End, and had the 31 spline axle, but mine has the 28 spline axle. So, I'm pretty confident it has 3.55's. It's turning a little over 2,900 rpms at 65-mph on 235/60R/15's. I really like that ratio for the vast majority of driving I do. It's an incredibly peppy street gear, and not horrible on the highway as I rarely drive it over 65-mph.


Lots of fun when I decide to get on it! Left side posi marks are partially obscured by the tar strip, but if you zoom in you can see they're there.

 

Mike - Thru Indy is one way you can go. I'm looking at Google Maps right now, and the Indy route is saying 837-miles, 13 hr and 3 min. That route will take you quite aways north of the StL area..

Right now, Google Maps is showing the quickest/shortest route from Atlanta to Moline is 75 N to Chattanooga, then 24 NW thru Nashville, Paducah, and on to Mt. Vernon, IL, then 64 W to East StL area near Belleville IL, then 55 N up towards Quad Cities. Right now Google Maps is saying this route is 784-miles, 12 hrs and 10 minutes. You have to deal with that PIA 75N/24W interchange/area near Chattanooga regardless of which route you take. Check it out when you have time

 

Wow Chris Mapquest has that same route at 809 miles. They are probably taking into account the added ramps and surface streets for all the times Mom will want to stop. But it says 11.25. Heck it's getting better. Hopefully we will be in Chattanooga later than the morning rush hour.

 

In the back of the SPECS there's an axle page for 67s. G93, which only shows up here, not on the Cutlass Supreme page, shows 3.55 rear end in automatics. So, I would think it would be that. When you are under there sometime, there is a two character letter code, the 3.08 limited slip is SD for example, that is stamped on the front side of the tube, often upside down, usually midway on the tube, and mine was on the passenger tube. If you find that code, the list is in the CSM. But, it sounds like 3.55 is what you have and it was available.

Remind me not to race.

 

Hi Mike - Please keep me informed as to what route you decide to take, and an approximate time you might be in the East StL area if you decide to take that route. I want you to take whatever route you're the most comfortable with, I'm sure we'll meet in person some day regardless. Keep in mind it takes me a little over an hour to get up to that East StL area.

 

John - I have that same chart and I was using it as a guide/logic check when initially trying to determine the ratio. After recently pulling the axles and finding them to be 28 spline (non-HD), that sealed the deal and convinced me the gears are 3.55's. I've looked a couple of times on the axle tube for the Code, both left/right sides, and front/back of tubes and haven't been able to find it. The problem is the previous owner coated it in what I believe to be a heavy coat/s of POR 15. Whatever it is, it's pretty thick and tough, and I have been reluctant to start sanding ***** nilly without even having a hint of a stamping.

 

Chris and John, the 3.55 ratio was not available in the O-Type rearend; only in the 12 bolt Chevy and 8.2" 10 bolt rears. The 3.42 ratio was available in the O-Type standard duty 28 spline rearend.

Here's some information I archived many, many years ago:
.
.
From Brian Trick on RealOldsPower.com posting

O-Type 12 Bolt

Here is a list of the posi units & what gears they will fit:

#673 = 2.56 & 2.78 ratios, 28 spline
#671 = 3.08 & 3.23 ratios, 28 spline
#588 = 3.42 & anything numerically higher, 28 spline
#672 = 3.42 & anything numerically higher, 31 spline

***The 31 spline axles were offered in late 67-68 OAI cars only.

 

Well, since we had already pretty much established I have an O-type rear end, I guess I don't know now what I have? That chart John posted was for '67s specifically, wouldn't that have been an O-type??? Car was built in Framingham, June of '67. I am thoroughly confused now because all tests point to something in the 3.42 to 3.55 range??? I believe rpms are reading correct as checked with timing light with that function, and speedo is correct within 1 or 2mph as checked with portable GPS unit. Corrected speed from GPS was used for input in rear end ratio calculator?

 

Chris, you definitely have a Standard Duty (28 spline axle shafts) O-Type rear. That has been confirmed. Since there is no 3.55 ratio available for the O-Type, you have either 3.23 or 3.42 gears. If your calculations are correct, you have 3.42 gears.

 

That chart says 3.42's were only available with the HD 31 spline axle Rear End? Is that incorrect?

 

The information I have is the HD 31 spline rears were available only in 3.42 and lower ratios in early 66 through 68. I do not know if this means the 3.42 ratios were NOT available in the standard duty 28 spline rears in those years. Brian Trick or monzaz would know more about than than I.

Ya know, the edge of the ring gear has the number of ring and pinion teeth stamped into it, so it's really, really easy to determine conclusively what ratio you have.

Here's a picture showing a 3.08 ratio (40 divided by 13):

 

Chris, something just occurred to me. When you did the calculations, did you add around 300 RPM for torque converter slippage? I wonder if that may put your cruising RPM in the range of 3.23 gears?

 

To Ken's point, @3000 at 70 is 3.23 land.

 

No, I did not add or subtract rpm's from my calculation using this rear gear ratio calculator:
https://www.strangeengineering.net/g...io-calculator/
I entered
Tire diameter - 26.1"
RPM's as read on Tach - 2950
Speed - 65 mph
Results - 3.53 gear ratio, pretty damn close to 3.55

If you add an extra 300 RPM's for slippage, bringing the total to 3,250 RPM's entered into the calculator, it only drives the ratio to a numerically higher gear ratio, which makes sense. Higher numerical ratio is going to turn more RPM's with other factors being constant.

 

I ran the numbers in that calculator, but subtracted 250 RPM for converter slippage:
Tire diameter - 26.1"
RPM's as read on Tach - 2700
Speed - 65 mph
Results - 3.23 gear ratio

 

Kenneth - I see your point, and can't dispute the math. I just can't see the designer of that calculator as wanting someone to guess how much slippage is occurring and make an arbitrary subtraction prior to input into the calculator. I think the calculator is designed to input RPM's directly as read from the Tach, and that leads me back to 3.55's. I may very well end up being wrong, but per the '67 Oldsmobile Chart John posted above, it shows 3.55's as an available option (Code G93) in the '67 4-4-2 optioned ((L78) cars. I'm thinking 3.55's were available in O-type rears. This ratio was also bore out by the wheel rotation vs. Drive Shaft rotations method I performed, although much less precise. I've outlined this entire scenario and sent it to Joe P. to review and maybe he can shed more light on it. I will be the 1st one to admit it if I'm wrong, certainly wouldn't be the 1st time.

 

Chris, that calculator doesn’t ask what transmission you have, like some others. Those acknowledge a manual trans has no slippage whereas an auto does. That leads me to think this calculator is not accounting for torque converter slippage.

You are incorrect. As I posted above, that ratio was never available in the O-Type.


If you note in the chart, there is a 3.90 ratio and a 3.91 ratio. The first is for the Chevy 12 bolt and 8.2” 10 bolt and the second is for the O-Type. What I’m getting at is there were multiple types of rearends available, with various ratios. The O-Type had only 2.56, 2.78, 3.08, 3.23, 3.42, and 3.91 available from the factory. 4.33, 4.66, and 5.00 ratios were available as dealer installed options.

 

Kenneth - If you could see me right now, you'd see me bowing in reverence to your infinite wisdom and knowledge. Here's Joe P.'s response to my questions. His response is almost a carbon copy of all the points you've already made. Before you respond further, Joe P. followed up his initial response with an addendum that outlined how the O-type non-HD can also have 3.42's in it. I'd like to get that in here before you respond further, but I'll have to back out and copy it before I can do that.

​​​​​​Joe P. - Initial Response
"Chris, unfortunately that chart is misleading. The 1967 cars could have come from the factory with either the 8.2" BOP axle with the ten bolt cover or the 8.5" Type O with the twelve bolt cover. The 3.55 gears were only available in the BOP axle. There are no 3.55 factory gears for the Type O. When I count turns I like to use 10 rotations of the tire, since it's much easier to distinguish between 35.5, 34.2, or 32.3 turns of the driveshaft than it is to see 3.5, 3.4, or 3.2. Also keep in mind that RPMs based on tire diameter have a couple of variables. What matters is the rolling radius of the tire, which is unfortunately not simply half the outside diameter. Tires bulge at the sidewall, and radials more than bias ply. This reduces the rolling radius from the theoretical number. Wheel width also affects rolling radius, as a wider wheel can result in a smaller number than a narrow wheel for the same tire (again, especially with radials). A "smaller" tire will increase RPMs at speed, making it look like the gears are steeper than they are. Add to this the slippage in the torque converter, and you get an even higher RPM. My guess is that you have 3.23 gears and the appearance of 3.55s is due to these two factors."

​​Joe P. - Addendum
"Here's an excerpt from the parts book. Note that the B and P axles were available with 3.23, 3.55, and 3.90 gears (the prior page only had 2.78, 3.08, and 4.33 gears for these axles). The Type O non-HD axle was only available with 2.56, 2.73, 3.08, of 3.23 ratios. 3.42 gears could have been installed in the non-HD housing, but that would have required the carrier to be changed out for the later 588 unit. Obviously that would not have been factory installed in 1967."

So, in the end, I still really don't know, it could be 3.23's or 3.42's.

 

I’ll bet you $100 you have 3.23 gears.

 

As I am sure Ken and Joe would agree, the chart I linked is a salesman's tool and does not have adequate rigor for engineering purposes (as in, it doesn't include what physical axle it is, just the ratio)

 

I had an odd thought, Kenneth, were you ever an ebay selled funinarizona?

 

And I would not take that bet, no way, no how!

 

No, that’s not me.

 

Oh ok. I may have asked you that previously once.

 

Hi everyone.

Greetings from the land of corn. That was a long ride. But relatively uneventful and no traffic stoppages or car trouble.

Sorry Chris, but I'm taking 74 to Indy when we go home. Google maps on my phone wanted me to get off 24 and take local roads. Some of the roads were barely two cars wide, many of them in the back 40 with nothing else around and no other cars. We couldn't have been the only car going from the south to the north. Two hours later we finally hit I-55. If it truly is an hour longer going through Indy it will be well worth it. We were nowhere near E St Louis.

Tomorrow we're going to pick up my aunt and go see my cousin's daughter and her kids. I have no desire to do this, but it's important to my aunt. I don't even know these people. Eh, the fun starts afterward when we go visit the cemeteries where all my ancient relatives are buried. Found out my favorite restaurant, Bishop's Buffet, has been closed for 12 years. Geez where have I been. Not in Moline that's for sure.

Hope everyone has a good evening. I'm beat. Mom was a trooper today, not asking to stop and not complaining about the long ride. We had a good trip. She's in love with Buckey's bathrooms.

 

Since Allan is long gone, this is for Jamesbo, because he liked mocking Allan.

 

Mike - Going north on 24 from Paducah, KY, you would have needed to get off of 24N at Mount Vernon, IL onto 64W which would take you to the Collinsville/Belleville, IL area which is where 55N starts. The Collinsville/Belleville area is probably less than 10-miles from where your Brother lives. Didn't you say he lived in Alton, or was it Granite City?

 

Hope everyone has a good evening. I'm beat. Mom was a trooper today, not asking to stop and not complaining about the long ride. We had a good trip. She's in love with Buckey's bathrooms.[/QUOTE]


Enjoy Mike

 

I had the opportunity to get off on 64 but the GPS said do something different. I tried running the map forward but couldn't see anything, then went in and looked at a map at a rest area, and I couldn't even see 64, so I stuck with what the GPS said. Big mistake. I would have been better off going up 65 to I-80 and taking that across to Moline. My brother lives in Wood River. Next time we fly.