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Why can't you believe a bad ground could cause your issue? You need both good B+ and ground to complete all circuits.
In my opinion if it were a bad ground there would most likely be intermittent action on the starter; meaning an interruption. That is my interpretation. They're installing a new starter, waiting for it to come in (About 4 days) from NAPA. I really hate to tell him what to do as I said to his brother Mark this morning if he knew how to time the engine. He smiled with additional commentary. Right now, they have a collector Corvette in the garage. Their invoices are more plentiful than dealerships. I'll leave it to him to determine any possible faults with the wiring/cables. For all I know that last two mechanics who worked on the car installing the starters were idiots. Again, not anyone performing that type of work today on older vehicles. I can not do top end work much longer. That is why I'm letting those guys handle it.
* What would you tell them at this point. They specifically said the timing was o.k. I timed the engine well over twenty years ago. Look at post #115. That may not be as funny as I nor anyone else thinks!
Last edited by synoptic12; Oct 14, 2025 at 02:11 PM.
Reason: W
I went to pick my car up this morning and something transpired regarding the owner, Bob. Upon entering North Providence Tire I met Mark, Bob's brother. Mark told me he tried to contact me in the morning but I already left. Mark said the timing was right on the button. Mark further added that Bob was working on my vehicle with someone else. Bob is certified ASE L1, none better. Mark told me Bob had kidney cancer and he'll be out for eight weeks. Mark said that Bob wished to be there to oversee the starter but he wasn't sure if it were the starter. Mark provided a builder for starters/ armatures if I wished to go that route which I was not. Mark said that he would put in the starter but could not guarantee it was the starter and did not wish for me to spend the money.I was insistent when I should not have been regarding the installation of the starter 'due to Bob's health'. There are none better than Bob and I was unaware that he was classified as ASE L1.
Mark said I could wait but it would be about eight weeks. I've been through that process but not for my kidney, rather my lung as I was in Boston General for eight days in 2023. There just are not any experienced with the older cars such as North Providence Tire: the last of the independents; my motto actually. So, I'm in a dilemma and I'm truly sorry that Bob will be out for eight weeks.
What should I do at this point; don't wish to be stranded as that will cost me much more?
Bob is a great guy and I trust his judgment more so than any other. I spoke with the NAPA district manager and we had a lengthy conversation as he said there are no more mechanics around and they're all thieves. He added that all the parts are the same regardless of what auto supplier you go to. He said it, I didn't. I'd hate to take a chance on replacing the starter and find out that was "not" the problem. I asked Mark about the battery cables/ wires as Mark said that is why Bob wished to look into it further. The starter is an easy job Mark said but the installation has to mesh the teeth adjoined to the heat shield. All replies are very much appreciated. I wish to thank everyone for the outstanding courtesy and support.
Last edited by synoptic12; Oct 15, 2025 at 12:45 PM.
Replacing a starter is about as easy as auto maintenance gets if you aren't doing oil changes or brakes (not including Northstar starters or brakes requiring a scan tool to reset).
If you decide to wait for the gent with cancer treatments, how often will you drive the car this fall? Do you have AAA towing? What about a jump starter?
Replacing a starter is about as easy as auto maintenance gets if you aren't doing oil changes or brakes (not including Northstar starters or brakes requiring a scan tool to reset).
If you decide to wait for the gent with cancer treatments, how often will you drive the car this fall? Do you have AAA towing? What about a jump starter?
It's my daily driver. Do not have AAA towing. If it is the 'starter', "jump starting" will not ignite the engine will it?
* Yes, it's easty but I have gone through four (4) starters in two years. Could it possibly be bad battery cables and/or wiring? Forget AAA, they're not helpful and I'm not wasting my time towing. Again, Bob is certified L1 and there is not anyone I know that has that classification for the older cars. All the sensors on newer vehicles have made it basically easy for a technician to determine the cause. Irrespective of that, what do you advise other than AAA or a 'jump starter'; if that would work? The gents work for AAA.
Yes. Did you post a pic of the battery cables earlier in the thread?
No, I did not post pics of the battery cables. They go to the starter right? All the research I've done points to the 'starter', not the solenoid, not the ignition module, and not the ignition coil. I can't get under the car. Would a battery shop be able to tell me if the cables were responsible? You know a great many would say that just to sell you the cables.
If the man that owns the shop knows of a good, local rebuilder, I'd be inclined to try that over a 3rd reman, parts store piece.
Mark, Bob's brother made mention that it may not be the starter and made inference to the flex plate. However, Bob was working on the car with another when he developed kidney cancer. Again, out for eight weeks. I believe I mentioned that Mark recommended a rebuilder. Why would he recommend a rebuilder if he stated that it may not be the starter?
* I called just now and asked if they did a voltage drop test and they did. "Everything is/was o.k.".
Installed Parts
1.) New Spark Plugs Installed Gapped .060 per Oldsmobile Chassis Manual
2.) Denso Spark Plug Wires 8MM
3.) AC Delco Distributor Cap
4.) Ignition Rotor
5.) EGR Valve
6.) Crankcase Air Filter
7.) PCV Valve
8.) Engine Air Filter
9.) As stated by Mark: 'Timing is on the button".
10.) Choke Functional and nothing wrong with carburetor.
11.) Battery at idle (OFF) 12.3
12.) Battery with ignition on 14.4
*I'm at a loss to determine the problem. Should I have another starter installed? It's difficult to be without a car for eight weeks. What should I do at this point? I followed most most procedures that this forum has specified or rather 'mechanics' followed. These guys are not backyard mechanics. A reply is appreciated.
* I just tested with a meter when slow cranking. I'm getting 9.1-10 volts when slow cranking.
Normal is 12.3 volts 'off' and 14.4 volts 'running'. The voltage drop test they did was o.k.
Last edited by synoptic12; Oct 16, 2025 at 08:35 AM.
Have you ever heard the phrase "mountain from a mole hill"?
Starters take a lot of amperage, and will typically register battery voltage as low as 9vdc while cranking. Check your grounds. Excessive resistance causes premature failure.
12.3v with the engine off is around a 65% charged battery. 14.4v with engine running is a normal charging voltage. The voltage dropping from 12.3v to 9-10 is an indication of a weak battery.
12.3v with the engine off is around a 65% charged battery. 14.4v with engine running is a normal charging voltage. The voltage dropping from 12.3v to 9-10 is an indication of a weak battery.
Get your meter, and go measure your car while cranking the starter.
12.3v with the engine off is around a 65% charged battery. 14.4v with engine running is a normal charging voltage. The voltage dropping from 12.3v to 9-10 is an indication of a weak battery.
I'm seeing a new mechanic Monday as I cannot wait eight weeks for Bob to return. If we decide to install a starter, should I go with new or remanufactured, inclusive of the solenoid? If I go new I can then get the old sttarter back to be analyzed while a reman starter has a core charge. There is a starter/armature rebuilder that was provided to me with nearly 50 years experience.
* Again, everything points to the starter.
I'm seeing a new mechanic Monday as I cannot wait eight weeks for Bob to return. If we decide to install a starter, should I go with new or remanufactured, inclusive of the solenoid? If I go new I can then get the old sttarter back to be analyzed while a reman starter has a core charge. There is a starter/armature rebuilder that was provided to me with nearly 50 years experience.
* Again, everything points to the starter.
If everything pointed to the starter, your previous mechanic would have not said he wasn't sure.
If everything pointed to the starter, your previous mechanic would have not said he wasn't sure.
* You certainly have a point. "His brother Mark said that," 'not' Bob who is out for medical reasons.That's what concerns me. However, the district manager at NAPA said that North Providence Tire ordered the new starter, providing me the number. When I picked up my car the following day and spoke with Mark he said if I wanted the starter installed he would have to order it. I said new and he responded, "He'd have to see. Bob was charging me $370.00 for the starter installation (new) and when I asked Mark he said $440.00. I told him Bob said $370.00 and Bob said he probably forgot to add tax. Tax in our state is only 7% which still doesn't add up.Someone is lying. This is the state of the world. It's who can cheat who. Remember this, at the last days all shall give account to God.
Mark said it may not be the starter, "not" Bob. And, I believe Bob ordered the new starter according to the NAPA district manager, Hank. I cannot speak with Bob as he is not there due to his health concerns. Bob said to pick up my car the following day as he clearly stated:" The starter would take 4 days to come in". 'Bob specifically stated that'. I hope I've clarified those details. So at this point I'm lost without any explanation. Mark took the info on my Olds' to order the starter and to find out if it were new. I cannot tolerate these games. What would you do here?
* The mechanic I'm going to on Monday is very familiar with older vehicles as he will not charge me anything to diagnose unless it turns into hours. That is why I installed all those parts and Bob confirmed the Timing to be on the button, voltage drop o.k. Emission hoses o.k., thermac and heat riser o.k. Unless it's a sensor, at this point I have not a clue.
* Again, not to be redundant but all the procedures have been followed and nothing is wrong. Still believe it's the starter.
Last edited by synoptic12; Oct 17, 2025 at 03:21 PM.
fleming442 called it in #74. Sully's Auto Care installed the starter (Worldpac) within four and one-half hours. The starter 'screams' like when the car was new. After four bum starters I finally got a knowledgeable mechanic that installed a starter correctly. The price was $287.00 total with a Lifetime Warranty (ReManufactured). North Providence Tire wanted $440.00 without tax. Quite a difference. Well I found a highly capable mechanic able to rectify any issues with the OBD I or OBD II systems. By the way, he's not a thief and honest as those traits are non-existant today.
*** Got the engine hot, shut it down and it started right up 'screaming' just like when new. I'm very much impressed with the mechanic and 'Worldpac' which I never heard of.
* Sorry, I forgot. Thanks fleming442.
Dale Earnhardt
Last edited by synoptic12; Oct 20, 2025 at 07:12 PM.
