Seeking assistance relating to HEI Ignition coils for a 1986 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Brougham, Vin Y, 5.0 Liter (307). As many know, most manufacturers parts are sourced out to China which I despise. I've looked at numerous HEI coils and all of them have varying degrees of issues. I'm not looking into upgraded HEI Coils such as Accel, MSD, or any other. My motor is stock so I'm looking to basically keep an O.E.M. stance with the HEI Ignition coil. After researching HEI coils for my car I found the NGK 49031 to be superior to the rest: Delphi- Made in China, Duralast- Made in China. Standard is supposedly made in Poland as I have used their parts prior (EGR Valve) - Made in Mexico (Very Good). I'm getting spark from my O.E.M. AC Delco as the coil has no issues (40 years old) and still good. However, looking for a spare and NGK seems to fit the bill. NGK provides a three year warranty (36,000 miles). I would very much appreciate any and all opinions adjoined to the above content.

1986 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Brougham 5.0 Liter (307) Vin Y

Ngk HEI Ignition Coil 49031

 

I actually commented on Standard parts yesterday on the Ford Truck Enthusiast forum I frequent. I bought new (instead of rebuilt) Standard fuel injectors for my 86 Ford diesel truck in 2018. They worked great until recently. I actually plan on rebuilding them this weekend.

When I bought the fuel injectors they had a 3 year warranty from the local auto parts store. You might want to shop for warranty since everything is made overseas now.

 

I used to swear by Standard Motor Products parts (their regular grade, not the crap T-series), but when their condenser crapped out and caused my points to burn after only 3000 miles, I now have second thoughts.

 

I've had this happen occasionally over the years with many different brands. I've had more good experiences with Standard Motor Products than bad.

 

Go to ebay and see if you can find NOS.

 

Mr. Joe, how are you? I've decided against Standard. I cannot find Echlin which is supposedly manufactured in Poland. The remainder are made in China, even the name brands. I'mm most likely go with NGK as they have been well known for many years, including motorcycle electrical parts 'Good stuff'. Thanks for the support

 

* No chance with Ebay even though I'm a seller there with a 100% rating. The sellers have changed dramatically, always trying to scam and cheat others. There are a few that are good but the majority are just thieves seeking to entrap the unsuspecting. Thanks very much for the assistance.

 

I've used Standard as an EGR Valve, still good at 100,000 miles. I just changed out to a new Standard EGR valve made in Mexico even though I could have just cleaned it as the diaphragm was still working well. Some say the lifetime warranties are mostly due to the parts being manufactured in China as they do not last. In fact, I purchased a starter at O'Reilly "Lifetime" and te starter was defective within two weeks. In this respect, I'm not keen on lifetime warranties if the part is made in China. That leaves me in a quandry with the many. Does Echlin still manufacture HEI Ignition coils? I cannot find them at NAPA WHO did carry them. At this point, I'll most likely go with NGK even though NAPA states the part is a universal fit not 'exact fit'. I'm uncertain of that fact but I do recognize that the gauge wire NGK uses looks better (thicker) than many HEI Coils.
Thanks for the input and courtesy.

 

* After calling NAPA, they said they have more NGK coils coming back instead of Echlin. They said there was a website issue in finding parts. So, he provided the part number IC18 that carries a three year warranty. I believe that Echlin is manufactured at 16949-certified facility in Bialystok, Poland. Finally, NAPA states the Echlin is an 'exact fit' whereby they list the NGK HEI Ignition coil as a 'universal fit'. Any input here is truly appreciated. I was set on NGK, now I'm at Echlin.

 

Let us know once you buy a coil. I've seen coils with heavier gauge wires than others. I suppose this would mean the coil could last longer than not.

 

* Yes, most definitely.
Lower gauge numbers have lower resistance in that they can carry more current (higher capacity) and reduces voltage drop and energy loss as heat ’Extremely Important’ in my opinion.

* Yet, for a HEI Ignition coil, thick gauge wire is better for the low-voltage primary side and the thin gauge wire is necessary for the high-voltage secondary side. I believe at this point I’ll leave the details to the manufacturer.
I did not know you had a Youtube channel. Looks pretty good as I viewed it briefly. When I get some extra time I'll look at those vids. Thank you very much for the support.

 

Thank you, kindly. Now I just need to do videos on my Oldsmobile again.

 

JoeP, and I followed your recommendations for mechanical parts. Electrical parts may be a a different category now.

 

I actually posted this thread due to an issue I was having on 'delayed' and/or sporadic start-up. I installed AC-DELCO spark plugs: gapped at .060, Denso spark plug wires, AC DELCO Distributor cap, AC DELCO Ignition Rotor, Standard EGR Valve, PCV Valve, Crankcase Filter, Engine Air Filter and I'm still having hesitation on startup 'sporadically'. The battery is new and a new carb filter was installed in the last 6 months. A fuel pump was installed within the past 2 years. I ordered a AC DELCO Ignition Control Module from Home Depot believe it or not as they had the best price. I'm at my wits end. I'm not going to take off the distributor cap and wires without replacing the ignition control module and may as well replace the HEI Ignition Coil. I believe I'll go with Echlin from Napa. Can any provide any input as to why I'm having this issue? Surely I can test the primary and secondary circuit on the coil but I like to have the parts in hand. If it's not the HEI Ignition coil and/or Ignition Control Module, what could it be? Any direction or assistance is truly appreciated here.

When I start the engine there is a delay and somewhat hard to start, then runs like gangbusters. No issues with sputtering, backfiring, hesitation, and rough idle or shaking. There is no check engine light lit as I have the OBD 1. A pic of the AC DELCO I just purchased at Home Depot. Most retailers want $88.00 or better up to $148.00: Out of their mind.

AC DELCO CONTROL MODULE

 

Have you actually checked for spark when having these issues?

 

No. Where should I check for spark? There has been a tremendous improvement in performance and speed after tuning.

 

You can remove one of the spark plugs wires from the spark plugs end and ground the cable to the upper control arm or the alternator/AC bracket. You should see the spark when cranking the engine.

 

Why not just plug in a timing light between the spark plug wire and spark plug ? You can lay the timing light on the cowl next to the windshield and watch it blink as you crank the engine from the driver's seat. This would make it a one man task.

 

Thanks but I do not have a timing light.

 

Would any know what the part is that I have denoted with Green Arrows? I plan on replacing the HEI Ignition Module and using ARTIC MX 4 THERMAL COMPOUND and do not wish to go in there again. All replies are appreciated.

HEI Distributor

 

Buy one ! A simple and cheap one will work. You don't need a dial back timing light.

 

That is the condenser, I doubt its bad because the car runs well once it's started. You are chasing an issue that may not be ignition parts related, but probably a tuning or choke issue based on your previous comments. Quit throwing parts at the problem until you do a bit of troubleshooting.

 

That's a condenser.

 

*Thank you very much. I appreciate the courtesy. Would the 'condenser' have any bearing on a bad or possibly bad Hei Ignition Control Nodule?

 

If you have spark the condenser is good.

 

If it's running and you want to inventory spares, that's fine, but don't talk yourself into a problem that doesn't exist. LMAO

 

Thanks very much for the courtesy.

 

Thanks very much. Some refer to the 'condensor' as the radio capacitor which I believe is more accurate. Why they (GM) would ever place a radio capicitor inside the distributor is unknown to me.

 

Thanks for the support. I'll keep everyone informed when I find the problem.

 

I'm still going to install the AC Delco HEI Ignition Control Module and a new HEI Ignition Coil. May not be the problem but after 40 years it may be time to replace them. At that point, if I still have problems I'll have the car diagnosed. My health is not that good as it took me at least seven hours to install all the parts. If I had to pay a garage or dealership it would have cost me at least $1500.00 so I believe I'm ahead of the game even though I do not like to give money away. Here is a pic of a meter I have in my cigar lighter to see the voltage of the battery. Prior to tune-up the battery reading was 12.1. After the tune-up it now reads 12.3. Once the engine is started the voltage now reads 14.3 or 4 and prior to tune up it was 14.1. In this light It cannot be the battery. If it were the alternator the voltage would be cut down to the battery, 'no'? The lights stay bright when cranking the engine. I did not time the engine. If the engine runs tops when it's fired up (More speed and pure power after tune-up) , three speed overdrive kicks in on the 4 barrel Rochester carb, would that be a 'timing problem'? There is no hesitation, sputtering, rough idling, and/or backfiring. No flat spot at all when depressing the accelerator either slow or by punching it.

Again, there is a delay or hard starting (Intermittent) never kowing when it will occur. It seems as after the car starts and I run it for a while, then stop and try to start again there is a delay and/or hard start like there is nothing there. I'm uncertain if heat is a factor here > i.e.'HEI Ignition module). I've had four starters installed in the last year or year and one-half due to defective starters. I'm uncertain if heat build up in the HEI Ignition Module or HEI Coil would be associated with the starting problem. I do not wish to be stranded on the road somewhere in east chimoke. All replies to the above content are truly appreciated. * Joe if you're around can you provide your opinion.

Meter/ Battery

 

I agree with the above.

Since it appears the ignition system is good, it’s time to look at the air/fuel delivery system. I would try priming the carburetor by either pouring a small amount of gasoline or spraying some starting fluid into the primary bores to see if the engine fires promptly.

 

* I cleaned the exterior of the carb, spraying gumout in the carb, then waiting five minutes before starting. When starting there was no start-up right away rather starting after a few seconds, may 5-10 seconds; then o.k. In fact, I just went into my garage to start the car and it started right up without even depressing the accelerator. You very well may be right with the air/fuel delivery system. Would this not be adjoined to to the HEI Ignition Module as from what I've read the air/fuel is calculated with the HEI Ignition Module, 'no'? Thank very much for the help and assistance. I really hate ignition problems and carburetor problems more so. I'm not versed in carb components and/or tuning the carb. Sometimes, I wish some of you guys were around.

 

As mentioned earlier, you should get a timing light to properly tune the car. I wouldn't get one that wasn't a dial back timing light.

If you suspect the problem might be fuel related you can open the choke plate when the engine is cold and activate the throttle once. You should see the accelerator pump squirt fuel into the carburetor.

 

Thanks.

 

ADDENDUM:

* No one has addressed the HEI Ignition Module as being or possibly being the problem rather moving me to time the engine. As I've stated previously, the HEI Ignition Module calibrates many facets related to possible timing. Would not replacing the HEI Ignition Module prior to timing be advised?
I found this information online:
An HEI (High Energy Ignition) module, also known as an ignition control module, functions as the "brain" of the HEI system, controlling the timing and energy of the spark that ignites fuel in the engine's cylinders. It works by sending signals to the ignition coil, causing it to build up and then release a powerful electrical charge to the spark plugs for efficient combustion. Unlike older systems, the HEI module is an electronic, maintenance-free component that provides a more reliable and higher-energy spark, leading to better performance and reduced emissions.
How it Works
Signal Reception: The magnetic pickup coil inside the distributor sends a signal (a saw-tooth sine wave) to the module as the distributor shaft rotates.
Coil Charging (Dwell): The HEI module uses transistors to receive this signal and control the current sent to the primary side of the ignition coil, charging it with energy.
Coil Discharge (Spark): When the module receives the signal to fire, it shuts off the current to the coil's primary circuit. This sudden collapse of the magnetic field in the coil generates a high-voltage spark in the coil's secondary circuit.
Spark Delivery: This high-energy spark travels through the distributor cap, rotor, and spark plug wires to the spark plugs, igniting the fuel-air mixture in the engine's combustion chamber.
Expanding Dwell: The HEI module has a patented "expanding dwell" feature, which adjusts the duration of coil charging to match engine speed, ensuring optimal coil saturation and spark energy from idle to high RPMs.
Key Features and Benefits
Higher Voltage: Provides a significantly hotter and more powerful spark compared to older points-type systems.
No Ballast Resistor: Eliminates the need for a ballast resistor, as the module allows the coil to operate at full battery voltage.
Increased Spark Plug Life: The higher energy spark helps burn off deposits and increases spark plug life, especially with unleaded fuels.
Maintenance-Free: The electronic module replaces mechanical points and a condenser, eliminating the need for routine maintenance.
Improved Combustion: The hot spark ensures more complete combustion, resulting in increased engine power and efficiency.
* All replies are appreciated.

 

SUPPLEMENT

• Intermittent Issues:
  A failing module can be heat-sensitive, causing the problem to appear or worsen as the engine gets hot and then potentially restart after the vehicle cools down.

How Heat Affects a Failing HEI Module

• Heat Buildup:
  Heat is a primary factor in the failure of HEI modules and other components in the distributor assembly.
• Temperature Sensitivity:
  The engine may run fine when cool but start to misfire or die as it reaches operating temperature.

 

Based on your post #14, you have the exact opposite issue. So why are you suspect of the module?

 

What is your point or are you waiting to hear what you want to hear. You have not proven that the HEI module or the coil is bad. We (at least most of us) know how an HEI ignition works.

 

There is no point. The fact is that no one has addressed my question regarding the HEI Ignition Module. If I referred to the 'Module' as a "Coil", I misspoke. As the HEI IGNITION "MODULE" possibly being defective that does have a bearing on the timing issue. Why time the engine if the HEI Ignition Module is weak or failing: "That is my point". As stated in post # 35 and #36.

 

* Please point out on post #14 where I have the 'exact opposite issue' as you state? I clearly show a pic of the HEI Ignition Module I'm planning on installing prior to timing.