I have a 1986 pontiac pariseanne with an olds 307 and 82,000 miles. The car had recently been overheating all the time. I had it pressur tested and come to find out that my intake gasket in the front water passage ahd pushed and was causing a pretty good size leak. Well I unhooke the miles of vacuum hose, accidently rung off my gas line, and took off teh intake manifold just to fnd that the inside of my engien looks like a sludge fest and looks as though it has 200,000 miles on it. My grandpa that gave the car to me took very good care of it, and rarely drove it. My question is since I do have this Massive sludge in it, what can I use to poor down in there and scrub the side of the block in the lifter valley and down on top of the heads, to get the crud out. Then of course change my oil. Any advice is greatly appreciated.

 

A dirty job for sure. I would first clean by hand everything you could get to, use lots of rags and maybe a putty knife to scrape stuff off exposed surfaces. For the engine internals, it might be easier and a more thorough effort to re-assemble the engine and use an engine flush to clean it out. You would probably do that anyway. You are talking about the chocolate milkshake sludge from the coolant leak into the engine right?

Also, we have numerous threads concerning the the replacement of the intake gaskets, pay special attention to the front and rear rubber seals; there are two schools of thought on this, use the rubber seals in the gasket set or make your own seals with silicone, not going to recommend either just chose one and follow the guidance given in those threads. Good luck.

edit: if you were asking about a particular product recommendation, I don't have one but there are lots of choices out there. I think GUNK makes one.

 

Seafoam is another good product that can flush nastiness out of an engine. Either that or diesel fuel.

 

What was down inside there was actually like thick black gunk that was stuck to the top of the heads inside the lifter valley. I dont know what you would call this but its grose and would cause some oil drain back problems for sure. How would I get this out?

 

I would drain the oil, fill the crankcase with Seafoam (let it sit a few days), and run the oil pump with a drill. You can even have a buddy rotate the engine with a wrench while you turn the oil pump. Then drain the Seafoam out of the engine and replace it with normal oil. This should get the nastiness out of the inside of the engine. To remove the sludge from the lifter valley use engine cleaner, a stiff bristle brush, and shop rags. I would clean the lifter valley before running Seafoam through the engine.

 

Here is a good link for intake gasket replacing...
http://tlentz.oldsgmail.com/howto.html#manifold

 

The best way to do it, is carve this junk out with a screwdriver, putty knife, and clean after wards with a vacuum cleaner. Use a large 1 hp craftsman shop vac if you have can. Don't beat up your push rods with the screwdriver.

The reason for all of the sludge is the manifold has 4 very hot exhaust ports feeding the intake manifold crossover, baking all of the oil that enters the lifter valley at 500+ degrees. It only gets worse with high mileage engines that have catalytic converters. Eventually that mud will turn into a hard dirty clod. It would be nice if would turn into diamonds.

You can plug the cross overs with a thin sheet steel plate (only if you use a paper gasket), and run an electric choke to rid yourself of this issue.

 

so the ports in the center of the heads between the intake manifolds, are actually exhaust recirculation holes. wow I would have never guess that. Because that is exactly where the crud is. I thiNK I am definnetly going to take off all the a.i.r pump stuff and the egr for less vacuum compontetns and less junk under the hood. Yall know plug all the hoels on the exhaust and all. Where can I get an egr block off plate from?

 

Maybe in about a million years!

There are many articles about filling the exhaust crossover in the head. I thought it might be easier to fill the exhaust crossover in the intake. Couldn't you use that resin block filling compound made to fill race engines?

 

You should be able to get one at your local auto parts store. Make sure you don't have to pass emissions first in your state. Plus, if you have a CCC Q-jet on your car it might be a bad idea to start ripping emissions stuff off the engine.

 

I would love to do it this way, but I ma trying to stay away form takign the distributor out.( I love olds for the reason that you dont have to take the distributor out to change the intake gasket!) I am thinking after I get it back together and ge the crud out of the lifter valley, running some engien flush through it and then replacing all of the fluids,(oil, anitfreeze).

 

I hear that. You might consider getting some Seafoam and pouring it in the engine while the engine is running. Supposedley you can use it that way too. I've never done it before though.

 

Just to be sure CCC means the computer controleld carb right?
Would the car run rough or worse gas mieage if I take the emissions off. I dont have emissions in GA, I cut off the air pump belt about 2 weeks ago and it seemed to run fine like before, minus the huge water leak. I didnt lose gas mileage, in fact I may have gained some.

 

Correct. There should be a Throttle Positioning Sensor hooked up to the front driver's side of the carburetor if it is CCC.

 

These 4 cylinders feed the E.G.R (recirculation, I guess), the choke stove, and heat the underside of the carb for proper operation. They definitely out did themselves, here.

If you disable the EGR, you will need to adjust the jetting in the carburetor to keep from running lean, and your car will no longer be emissions legal, if that is an issue.

Mondello's used to sell them, but why?????

Make them with a pair of tin snips, and some flat steel stock. I have some steel ducting I do this with, never had an issue.

You could always install only one block off, if you want to keep emission compliance, and/ or the EGR.
Jim

 

so I will just have to fatten it up alittle by turning the fuel micture screws, or will I have to change the jets.

 

in your opinions, is taking all of thsi stuff off worth it or should I just leave it and drive it like it is.

 

Ok, I have done some brief thinking and cam to the conclusion that I am just going to clean what is inside my engine, I am going to take off the a.i.r. pump, but I am going to leave the egr on there so I dont have to adjust anything and dont have to worry about it not running right with out it. I really need this car to run right. I am a senior in high school and need a dependable daily driver. Like this one was until the gasket pushed. I can still get alot of miles out of it after this and treat it right.

 

I don't see any reason why you can't. 82,000 is not very many miles on it. Clean it up, take care of it, and drive it.

 

I agree with Andy, especially since you need a good daily driver.

 

I put my exhaust crossover back in service, after 8 years my paper gasket (Edel alum manifold) blew so while it was apart I didn't bother with block off plates again. It took a long time for the engine to run good in cool weather without the cross over. With it back in service the manifold heats up quickly and the engine runs well much sooner. I figure with the crappy aluminum manifold and the lack of decent gaskets with silicone beads I have to replace it every few years anyway so not much crap should accumulate. Valley has always been spotless.

 

Are you saying that since I am planning on taking off my air pump lines and pump that it wont heat up as quick in cold weather. I am putting a bead of silicone around every port ont he head to be sure I have good seal, on both sides of the gasket. I am also going to put a small film of it on the end gaskets so it stays in place and seals better. Im not messing with the block off plates anymore. I dont want to have to mess with the carb setting and mixtures. Plus I need a good daily driver that runs good and not a lean running, needs a tune on the carb since I put block off plates on it, car. Im goning to try the screw driver and vacuum method to clean it up first, then if that doesnt work I will use some engine cleaner and make sure to cchange the oil before start up.

 

You'll be fine in cool weather with the crossover in service, also for a good daily driver during cold weather your heat stove should be functional. These cold weather systems actually work well when maintained.

 

Where is the heat stove at, and what does it look like.

 

Yes, there is a sealtn that was supplied wiht the turkey tray. Ok, so I wll just put silicone on the first ports, then and the supplied on teh others.

 

The heat stove is the sheet metal around one of the exhaust manifolds. A tube brings warmed air to the air cleaner snorkle. When the engine is up to temperature a flap redirects incoming air to come from the regular snorkle opening. Often the heat stove rots out, probably not worth trying to replace. I had an 88 Caprice with Chevy's 5.0 engine, I'm sure much of the systems were similar. It used the same computer controlled carb. Car ran excellent in all weather conditions and was very reliable. I also had to replace the intake gaskets, it had an alum manifold. It sprung a leak.

 

Oh yeah I have that on mine and it is in great condition. I found out when I cleaned all the black gunk off the intake that it is also aluminum. I had no idea until I started working on these cars that they came with aluminum intakes.

 

That's why they leak.

 

Just read the entire thread and it seems you are going in the right direction by modifying as little as possible to keep a good dependable daily driver. I agree with that wholeheartedly. Cleaning up the engine and re-assembling the intake and carburetor should put you back on the road. Good luck.

 

Well I started teh put back together process last night. I took the end gaskets and cleaned the surfaces with acetone really well, then put some rtv on the bottom of the gasket and pushed it down on and let it sit over night. Whilel I was at it I figured I would paint the intake, so I painted it gm blue( which looks really good). But of course I broke one bolt off in the intake when I was taking it out. It was the bolt that holds down the heater coil thing into the intake, it sits under the carb I think. Any way it broke and I am going to use a bolt extracor kit to get it out.

 

Be careful using a bolt extractor. If the bolt that broke holds the divorced choke into the intake then make sure the intake manifold is off of the car when you try to remove it. That way you can put the intake manifold in a bench vise and hold it at the right angle so the bolt extractor can work like it supposed to. If the bolt extractor snaps off then you are SOL. I don't want to jinx you, I'm just giving you the heads up. Good luck!

 

Well I got the intake on there last night. It was a very messy job. I have never seen so mayny vaccuum lines on one car in my life either. I reallyhope thatn the intake seals right, I used the indian head on both sides of the gasket and rtv on the water ports, but still I have my concerns and I hope that it works right. I am currently putting all the vacuum lines back on. I think I am just going to use the diagram in the front of the car to go by and redo all of the vacuum lines for better reasurance.

 

That is the way to do it. GM liked to use vacuum actuated gizmos in the mid to late 80s.

 

Did you use the metal gasket set or the paper type?

 

I used the metal turkey tray with the rubber end seals.

 

Let us know how it turns out. The turkey tray was used from the factory for years and years and never gave any trouble.

 

Ok I got it all back together and drove it. It no longer has a intake leak, but the vacumm lines are another story. Even with the diargram on the front of the car I cant seem to get all the lines hooked up right. So that is making it have a rough idle. On top of that it is still getting too hot atleast for my preferance. The dummy light never came on saying it was over heating, but I dont like it when I pop the hood when it is shut off and the upper radiatoy hose is swollen like a balloon. I used water in the radiator this past summer, so I think my radiator is clogged. I ran some engine flush through it and it is running some smoother even with the vacuum leaks. I am going to run some radiator flush through it and see how that works. If none of this works I have no clue what to do. I am selling this car on the 27th of this month and need to get it atleast where it doenst run too hot. I need yalls help big time on the vacuum lines and the running hot.