ourkid2000

Good evening all,

I'm still in the early stages of planning the upgrade on the brakes for my 1966 Toronado and I've just got a question about the original design. It's been playing on my mind, maybe someone can fill me in?

The original system on the 66' had a single master cylinder and 4 drum brakes. So, I know that this system isn't ideal and is a significant shortcoming of this car but I'm curious how Oldsmobile accounted for the different braking forces that are obviously at work here? The single master cylinder would apply the same force to the rear as well as the front creating a situation where the rear could easily lock up first under hard braking. Did they build the rear brakes differently, like smaller wheel cylinders or smaller shoes, or maybe both? They must have done something, right?

The upgrade I'm planning is just to change out the master cylinder to a dual chambered one and that's it. I know nothing would really change with regards to how the system would function but it's just got me thinking about those rear brakes.

Thanks for reading! cheers

joe_padavano

The front and rear wheel cylinders have different bore diameters. Smaller wheel cylinder bore reduces brake force at that wheel. In addition, the brake shoes and drums are different sizes - 11.0" x 2.75" front, 11.0" x 2.0" rear. This also biases the braking force to the front.

ourkid2000

Ahh, gotcha. So they just put stronger brakes in the front .......simple. That makes me feel better about my upgrade as it should be almost exactly the same setup but with redundancy. As always, thanks Joe!

cfair

Hearty recommendation for dual circuit master cylinder. This is a very sensible, maybe needed, upgrade.

Contemporary magazines in 1966 were not particularly complementary about Olds brake choices that first year. I think it was Car Life or maybe Motor Trend that was the most critical. One of them did a side by side with the 66 Riviera and gave the braking win to the Riviera by a good margin.

It won’t be factory or easy to do, but on both of my 66 big cars, I went with front disc brakes. That helped a lot.

Chris

ourkid2000

Yeah, we shouldn't even bring that topic up honestly. In my short time after becoming interested in the 1st gen Toronado, nothing brings out the trolls like this discussion unfortunately. It's up there with solder vs. crimp, or ported vs. manifold vacuum. Actually, forget I even brought it up, lol.

cfair

Sorry. Didn’t mean to offend.

Not a Toro guy, just put me in the camp of people who believe it’s inbounds to upgrade brakes if anyone wants to.

I feel the same about HEI distributors too. And internally regulated alternators.

The root of it is GM learned how to make better cars all along the way. Why not take advantage of what they learned?

Chris

ourkid2000

Oh no offense taken! I'm just kiddin' around really.

Unfortunately, upgrading a 66' Toro to front discs is quite the undertaking. The wheels even need to be replaced as the 66' won't fit over the discs. I'm just gonna go with the dual master cylinder upgrade and stick with the drums.

cfair

If I had your car, I might just do the same. With my 66 big cars, the swap is serious, but doable well within the realm of fairly available GM parts. Well, except the disc brake rotors… See Joe P’s thread on that. He’s been guiding me for years on that…

There aren’t too many Jay Leno’s who can have wheels custom built at god-knows-what-cost just to have a custom ‘66 Toro. See his crazy 66 Toro video on Jay Leno’s garage if that’s new to you. He went nuts, just nuts.

Back to brakes, as a long time driver of old cars among modern cars with much better brakes than we have, leave a lot of room between you & the car ahead of you. Then get used to *ssh*les using that safety space to cut you off. I get it all the time.

Then I remember they’re commuting in their cr*ppy whatever-car in a hurry to get from nowhere to something stupid. I’m just enjoying cruising in my old car.

Truthfully, I sometimes have to consciously put my mind there, but at least some of the time I back off again & smile. Point is, let the enjoyment you get out of cruising the Toro offset the sometimes terrible behavior we all see on the road.

But boy the texting and driving crowd p*ss me off. I’m occasionally guilty. But I saw one today blowing along in the fast lane at 70 or so texting, not driving. The older I get the more I just pull over and let somebody I’m nervous about go by.

So glad to see a deluxe is surviving. Those dual door openers are one fantastic feature. Wish I had ‘em in my 2 doors. I’ve considered putting them in, but haven’t yet.

Cheers
Chris

GCH

Hi where did you find that this mastercylinder fit
your brakebooster ? Would be nice to se if this
MC fits the brakebooster in my 1965 98 also. Intrested to do same mod like you

GCH

Thanks Chris for tip about Joe P thread about rotors. Should se if i find the thread. Intrestng
reading.