Leadfoot

Guys (and especially Mac), I gotta tell you... it's taken me about a week and a half to get through this whole thread, but it's been awesome reading.

My hat's off to you Mac, and to all the contributors who have helped see you through this challenging (and daunting, at least to me) project. A couple weeks ago, I found myself at about the same place you were at a few months ago, wondering how I was going to manage my upcoming '69 Cutlass S 350 project, but I'm feeling a LOT more confident about it now. I actually feel like I know some of you guys (even though I don't), and I hope they'll be around when I have questions. (It might be a while... the 69 is paid for, but I'm waiting for this awful winter to end before I go pick it up and bring it home). Then, who knows? I might drive it more than twice before I start tearing it apart...

Keep up the great work, you're getting close!

76olds

Leadfoot, this is the best forum on the internet IMO, these guys are always here to provide the best sound advice you can't get anywhere. Just post your plans and goals and you'll see the good 'ol' CO guys cheer you on and help you through the impossible.
Good luck with your project

Macadoo

X2 and X3. These guys are the best and I've been on a lot of forums; motorcycle, home theater, etc. Sometimes they bring the hard truth but then tease the hell out of ya until you're smiling again.

Leadfoot, I'm with ya on this winter. It's kicked my *** upside and down...and then up again. I haven't been in the shop in weeks. Turned the heat all the way off to save some $$$.
Thanks for the kudos, it means a lot more than you know. And you're right, without these guys I never would have attempted all this.
I was hoping that by summer I would have the engine bay ready for re-install but it's looking like I'll be behind that schedule. More sub-zero temps this week. I'm usually a winter kinda guy but this is getting old.
Good luck with your project. Be sure to post what's happening and take A LOT of pictures, otherwise we'll bug you until you do.

Macadoo

For what it's worth, I think I like these guys more than my own friends. Lol.

76olds

[QUOTE=Macadoo;660226]For what it's worth, I think I like these guys more than my own friends. Lol.


X2 Cuz I don't have any friends!!!

MDchanic

I'm far too obnoxious in person.

- Eric

coppercutlass

All my friends are getting married and apperantly I'm the one friend their wives don't like. I GUESS growing up is optional.

Macadoo

If it's any consolation Copper, you help me NOT make expensive mistakes...so my wife likes you just fine

76olds

Lol, Woman sure like to spend the extra $$$$ saved by mistakes.

Professur

Oddly enough, that's your most endearing quality. We know you're being honest ... nobody could fake that well.

MDchanic

Thanks! Best compliment I've had this week.

- Eric

Macadoo

Hey fellas, I finally got some time in the shop yesterday and thought I'd swap the vacuum fittings from the old intake to the new Edel 3711 but they don't fit. The only one that did was the brake booster. The other holes are too big. Does Edelbrock sell the fittings or do I have to go with adapters (if available)? I'm still trying to figure out my vacuum diagram with the DVCS delete and now I'm wondering (I read guys on here do this) if I can delete the heater control valve and just go with a nipple for the heater hose. I assumed that controlled the hot/cool air mix in the cab but it sounds like that's an under-dash air door.
Yay for getting back in the shop!

oldcutlass

I would put the valve back in. Yes, your going to have to get some bushings to adapt some of your fittings.





I like to use plumbers thread sealant with Teflon instead of tape.

Macadoo

You would run with the DVCS?
Thanks for the pic.

MDchanic

It still gets hot in the summers in central Illinois, so I'd second keeping the hot water valve.

You'll be glad you did.

- Eric

MDchanic

No way, José. All that's for is to let you run the wrong timing, to reduce NOx emissions.

Eliminate that piece of junk and set your timing properly in the first place.

- Eric

coppercutlass

Couldn't you do a manual valve for the heater core ?

oldcutlass

Yes on the heater control valve, no on the DVCS.

Macadoo

Ah, okay. I got twisted around there for a sec. I have the heater valve installed so I'll leave it.
So what all do I need vacuum hookups for? Brake booster, tranny, AC, distributor, heater control valve,......anything else?
And this might be a stupid question but does anything on the carb need vacuum or does it only supply vacuum? The reason I ask is because that DVCS was an odd mechanism. Vacuum from front of carb to top of DVCS, vacuum form back of carb to side (one of the three ports) of the DVCS, one of the three ports from the DVCS to the manifold and t'd to tranny, and the third port to distributor. Was the DVCS pulling from three sources of vacuum?

coppercutlass

I like to run the vac. Adv. Off the carb. For 2 reasons. Ported and unported. Sometimes running it off of the unported side helps idle quality as you can get a little advance off idle . While ported only runs while the throttle is open. This being on an edelbrock or holley. I forgot what you where running. But I thought id share that info. Now if you are running a q jet I have no clue lol. That's the only thing I run from the carb for vac. Supply.

Macadoo

Yup, it's a Q-jet with an electric choke

Macadoo

So the question is, after this past winter, are we going to see record highs or record lows?

MDchanic

Vacuum lines go to:

• Brake booster
• Transmission modulator
• A/C controls (includes hot water valve)
• Distributor vacuum advance
• Intake air temperature valve ("ThermAC")

Lots of people disable the intake air temperature valve.
Distributor vacuum advance can come from either the intake manifold or the carburetor port, depending on which runs best.


Yes, the choke pull-off uses vacuum, from a special port on the top of the carburetor.


The DVCS uses vacuum from the carburetor port and from the intake manifold, and switches one of those two to the distributor vacuum advance, depending on engine temperature and whether you're in top gear.

- Eric

billmerbach

I assume you finished Mac well done I'm about to do this and left off at about page 8 of your thread lol I should read some more did you go all stock and if so what all did you replace I'll probably come to you for help as our builds are similar and you have recently done yours I'm open to all help none the less lol I'll start reading this again tonight lol

Macadoo

Aha, so that's how the DVCS regulated the vacuum, by switching back and forth between a strong source and a weaker source. Pretty slick.
I'm guessing the intake air temperature valve is/was on the stock air cleaner. If that's true then I won't need it.
Also, since I swapped valve covers the stock PCV valve doesn't fit. Can I just use any ol' valve that fits the grommet and hose or does it have a certain cfm or something?

Macadoo

I may have to go back and reread the article to answer this question, lol.
I pulled the motor mostly to seal it up. It was leaking from everywhere. So all new gaskets, new front and rear seals, new oil pump pick-up since mine was clogged with the gear teeth, new water pump, bumped up cam (designed by a member here, cutlassEFI), new Performer intake manifold, rebuilt Q-jet carb with electric choke (until I can rebuild the original), refreshed the heads (needed a couple of guides, new exhaust valves, springs matched to cam, etc.), new lifters, new rockers (holy cow this list is getting long!), Edelbrock true roller timing set, I plastiguaged the main bearings, cleaned the carbon off of the pistons, checked the cylinder walls (mostly just checked out the ridge, or lack of, on the top of the wall), replaced the exhaust manifolds with shorty headers (thanks to Santa) and chrome valve covers. I degreased the engine about ten times and painted it with VHM gold. The headers I painted with plain ol' black stove paint for easy maintenance. Okay, deep breath. Wow, that kind of put things in perspective, lol.
Let me know if you have questions but all I really know is what I did to mine.
Good luck Bill

MDchanic

Correct, Mac. Since most collectors don't run their cars in sub-freezing weather, they'll never notice a need for the hot warm-up air.


An excellent question, and one I will admit that I never pondered.

I have always just figured that if they fit, they were right, and I believe that is the case, but closer study may reveal otherwise.

- Eric

Macadoo

Thanks Eric. Got some snow heading your way? What a treat! We're in for 5-8....again.

I did take the day in the shop though. Finally a nice day!

I'm beginning the under-hood detailing (which was supposed to be about done by now. Dumb winter). I started by pulling the tc and having a look at the front seal (which is supposed to be new).

[IMG][/IMG]

And then I pulled the master cylinder and brake booster. You know, just for fun. It really wasn't as difficult as I had read. I think the 71s have more clearance. Plus I have the motor out and the hood off. That might have had something to do with it.

It's none too pretty

[IMG][/IMG]

I'm going to pick up a new mc but I'd like to reuse the booster if I can.

oldcutlass

Generally if they don't leak they are good. You can wire bush the outside and give it a coat of paint and reinstall.

Macadoo

Can I test for leaks somehow? I don't have a vacuum pump though.
Painting it was the plan. Not sure if I should make it shiny and metallic (as metallic as rattle-can gets) or just make it match the firewall.

76olds

Mac I would just wire brush and paint is as Eric mentioned, You will know when the booster goes.... you will have a hard time pushing the brake pedal when braking. Other than that the booster is good.

Macadoo

Ahh, so the booster won't "boost". So simple I never would have thought of it.

coppercutlass

If it aint broke don't fix it ! lol. I have the factory booster from 72 on my 72 lol works very well . Just cant pump the brakes more that 3 times otherwise outta vacuum But that's due to the cam im running ., but its the same on modern cars surprisingly.

Macadoo

Yeah man, I'm done fixin' stuff that ain't broke. Getting harder to afford the "peace of mind" factor, lol.

coppercutlass

I put off fixing my frame for 6 years. I go to put the new steel fenders on and I find out the body is sagging just under 2 inches. Time to fix it lol .

Macadoo

Whoa, two inches seems like a lot. That might go beyond the "peace of mind" criteria.

coppercutlass

You think I would have noticed but when I did the car the first time I patched the fenders with them on the car so I made up for the body sag by trimming them since the whole bottom section was gone. Which at the time I didn't know any better. Then when I went to fiberglass fenders they flexed and actually fit very nice. Now that I have nice non chopped fenders that are proper length I can actually see the difference. Should be a fun project but probably will be outta service for half summer but it's a small price to pay for 6 years of enjoyment and very spirited enjoyment I might add lol

Macadoo

Spirited is right! Lol, I'd love to take mine down a track some day. But first she's gotta be able to get down the driveway! This winter has definitely put me behind schedule. But I'm still hoping to have some fun on the road before summer's over.

Macadoo

Hey fellas, what should I do with my old parts? I don't want to be limited by a numbers-matching car but should I hang on to them so someone else could, like if I get flattened by a bus or something and Mary wants to sell it?
I'm thinking of putting some up for sale so i can start my wheel fund but I would think shipping would be a bit much for some of them, like the cast iron intake. Here's a list of what I have so far:

1. Radiator - leaks and looks as though the PO used stop leak
2. Carb - I think I'll keep this one as a back up
3. Master cylinder - doesn't seem to have EB stamp but it looks to be the original
4. Exhaust manifolds - exhaust pipe bolts broken off and still there
5. water pump - may have nothing wrong
6. Original camshaft - MD Eric thinks it's in pretty good shape, wear wise
7. Valve covers - just dirty, no dents
8. Alternator - I don't think anything is wrong, it worked when I removed it
9. Original air cleaner - pretty dirty, sticker in rough shape
10. Distributor and coil - seems tight
11. Rocker arms - some uneven wear - doubt they're worth anything
12. Cast iron intake - choke heater tube broken but has plate

I know it's my decision, I'm just looking for opinions.

coppercutlass

I usually keep common wear items. like a water pump and the carb. the rest I would sell or scrap. The radiator alone would bring in enough cash for a 6 pack of good beer or a 30 case of cheap beer. The intake might be worth 3 bucks in scrap lol. Or you are into art turn it into garage furniture.