I'm getting concerned if my legs will allow me enough time to make three or four passes around a small roadster. Two passes sealer/primer 10 minutes between coats no issue. But how long can I wait before I start two coats of color base coat if I should need a rest How long is too long or when does it become detrimental to the finish? Then can I let it rest till the next day before I tackle three coats of clear? It has been years since I painted a complete car and my legs weren't a issue back then plus I was using single stage. Just trying to think ahead so I don't screw up more than usual... .Thanks in advance....Tedd

 

It can differ for brands of finish and product line. Usually within a few minutes to hours, unless you want sand/scuff more. Google and read all written instructions on the can itself. Pay attention to flash time, pot life and proper reducer for your ambient temperature. Hope that helps.

 

^^^X2 so all that info can be found in the product data sheet, not the sds, 2 different things. Its hard to read the can on the best of days and when the guy before you poor's the paint on the written instruction side it can be frustrating lol.

 

^^^THIS. Every major paint manufacturer posts their product data sheets on line. I like to use House of Kolor. Here's an example from one of their Technical Data Sheets.

 

The more flash time, the more opportunity for dust. Conditions will affect flash time as well - humid, dry, hot, cool, etc. Use a colored sealer if you can to help limit number of base coats. Not sure what you’re using but 2 coats of base is not a lot of color, should probably have an opacity card to spray each coat and make sure you’re covered before you clear it. I’ve seen some reds take 10-12 coats to cover an opposite colored primer.

Once you have sufficient base down you could kick back for a bit to rest your legs. Some base coats can be left overnight but definitely something to check in advance.

 

Thanks all I'll give it a try

 

Even the factory recommendations, are ballpark. There are still environmental conditions that have the final say. Air temp, air movement, and possibly humidity, all have a say. Best thing it to use the data sheet as a guide, but watch carefully! Take a little extra time, if in doubt. And, no, you shouldn't clearcoat a based car the next say. You won't get great adhesion. Wait about 2-3 times longer than between basecoats. Check the data sheet to be sure, different manufacturers have different instructions.

 

Like others have said, check the technical data sheet for the product you are using and it will give you all the information you need about recoat times. That info is almost never on the can since this stuff is intended for professional use only. Some paints have much longer recoat windows than others. For example, Sherwin Williams basecoats have a 7 day recoat window. Which means once a coat is sprayed, you have up to 7 days to add either more base or clearcoat before it must be scuffed and recoated with base. This is why their paints are used almost exclusively in the RV industry to accomplish those big, multicolor paint jobs that can take days of masking and applying colors before they are finally cleared. The recoat window for chroma base(cromax) is 24 hours. The recoat window on clear coats and single stages is usually a matter of hours. A good rule of thumb is that once you start, you need to finish today. If you come back tomorrow, it’s a good idea to scuff it up and hit it with a couple more coats to make sure you get mechanical adhesion since you may have missed your opportunity for chemical adhesion. Your best bet though, is to recoat as soon as the paint has flashed, which under appropriate conditions is usually a matter of about 5-20 minutes. In a production paint job we lay down 1 coat of sealer, 2-3 coats of base and 2-3 coats of clear and that takes about an hour and a half. On single stage it’s one coat of sealer and 2-3 coats color, which takes less than an hour. If it takes 10-12 coats of color to achieve coverage, you bought the wrong paint or messed up mixing it. In 25 years of painting, I couldn’t tell you the last time it took more than 3 coats to achieve full coverage. It’s extremely rare.

 

Don’t mean to get off track too much from OP:
Say you wanted to put stripes on top of base coat and laying out the stripes took up to a week. Would that be alright or better to base and clear with one or two coats and then add stripes on top of that with a final coat of clear over everything?
What if you do polyester primer over all your epoxy primer/body work then block everything to 320 then a couple coats of 2k urethane primer then block to 400-600. Would you then go right to base coat or would you need a sealer? Would a tinted sealer be necessary? A sealer at that point sounds like overkill? Thanks

 

We go by something I call the 4-6-8 rule. If you sand to 400, you want to seal it. If you sand to 600 you can go straight to paint. If you go to 800, you should be able to clear it, but we use 1,000 to be safe when we are just going to clear a panel.

Tinted sealer is kind of a crutch in my opinion. Covered is covered regardless of what the ground coat color is. I buy sealer in black, white and gray and make varying shades of gray depending on the color. Obviously black sealer for dark colors, and light for bright colors. Although sometimes I prefer things like not using white sealer under white paint. Gray sealer under white paint makes it easier to see color going on and when you’ve achieved coverage. However other painters will have differing opinions on that.

As far as stripes go, If you use single stage you’re limited to having one color on top of the other. Spray the first color, let it dry, mask it off, scuff it thoroughly with a scotch brite and apply your second color. Personally, I like to lay two tones in base and bury them with clear so that I can cut and buff the lines away. I usually apply one coat over the whole car, one over the edges of the stripes, second over the car, second over the edges of the stripes, then a third over the whole car. This gives me plenty of build to sand away the two-tome lines when I cut and buff the car.

 

OK thx
So if it was planned to be a lighter blue with black stripes in BC/CC.
2k light gray sanded to 600
2-3 coats of base blue
2 coats of clear
let dry and mask off for black stripes
scuff striped area
paint black base coat stripes
unmask everything and scuff whole car with 1000
Clear whole car 1-2 coats?
OR
2k light gray sanded to 600
2-3 coats of base blue
let dry
mask for black stripes( could be a few days?)
paint black stripes over blue base scuffed or not?
unmask and 3 coats of clear over everything

Are either right and what’s better? Did not list sealing because sanding to 600

 

If you go the route of base clear, but want the stripes laid on top, you could paint the car base clear, then lay the black stripes down in single stage.

Personally, I would do both colors of base and clear them together. But your time frame could be a problem. It all depends on the recoat window of your base. Like I said, Sherwin gives you seven days to stripe and clear. Cromax gives you 24 hours. If I’m not mistaken, Nason now claims to have NO recoat window and the tech data sheet actually states “any time” as the recoat time. Most base, if you pass the recoat window, you have to scuff it and recoat it with base. Sherwin, who gives you 7 days to recoat, actually says the paint must be removed if you pass the 7 day recoat window. For what it’s worth, my show cars have Nason basecoat with Sherwin Williams clear on them, but don’t tell my cromax rep that...

When I do two tones, I paint the first color of base and give it about 20 minutes to dry. Then I tape off the stripes and lay the second color of base. That process usually takes me about 2 hours. Then about 10 minutes after the last coat of base goes on, I unmask and clear it all.

Another tip, if doing both colors in base, I always lay down whichever color is easier to mask up first. So when doing stripes, I would actually paint the hood and deck lid black first. Lay down the stripes and then paint the body color. If I’m not mistaken, some of the olds were done this way originally, even with single stage paint. You could also paint the hood and deck lid with black single stage, let that dry and sand them with 1,000, then tape of the stripes and base the car clearing both. There is absolutely nothing wrong with clearing solid color, non-metallic single stage.

If you simply can not make it within the recoat window what I would do is paint the entire car body color. Base and clear. Then once dry I would sand the hood and deck lid with 1,000. Then you can tape, lift tape, retape to your hearts content indefinitely. Then when you’re happy, lay down the stripe color and clear those two complete panels again. There is no recoat window for this. You could do it the next day, or next year. It is also a lot more forgiving this way. You can wipe, clean, touch, tape, etc without fear of messing up the somewhat delicate basecoat.

**edit: re-reading your last post I see one thing I would avoid. If you paint the whole car one color and let it dry to come back and add the stripes, sand the whole panel with 1,000 first then lay down the stripes and clear them both. Don’t lay the stripe tape on unsanded clear, then try to scuff the stripe area, then try to scuff the first clear around the stripes for re-clear. Once raw base is on, you don’t want to have to do any scuffing or sanding. That’ll give you headaches and probably sloppy results. The only way I would lay stripes on unsanded clear and scuff the area to be striped is if I were going to lay stripes on top of the existing paint without clearing both together. For example painting the car with base clear and then adding the stripes in single stage.

I hope that makes sense. If not, PM me since I’ve already turned this simple question thread into crash course paint school...

 

Sorry to get a little long winded, but as you can see, there are many ways to skin this cat, just figure out which one works best for you within the abilities of the product you are using. Nothing wrong with thinking outside the box, especially when you have someone who knows what will and will not work in the real world and over the long term.

 

Not long winded at all. Like you said, many ways to skin the cat.
All good info. I appreciate you taking the time. As usual, I tend to overthink things sometimes but in this case there is some thinking involved.

 

Sorry if I kind of hi-jacked it Tedd

 

Not to worry I learned things in the exchange..... Tedd

 

Unfortunately I didn’t have the time to detail things like you did for OP and you have done him good service with your detailed info. My quote was simply a warning that one can’t figure on 2 coats of base, the example I referenced, without specifying, referred to some of the late 3 stage reds over an OPPOSITE COLORED PRIMER as an opposite extreme to the 2 coats guessed at. Primarily Glasurit and in the past Diamont, Deltron and Chomabase, no wrong choices or bad mixes involved, seen similar in all brands, though it has been all solvent base, no interest in switching to water despite the inevitability. Thankfully I just finished my 30 year hitch in the biz and am enjoying retirement!

Good luck Ted! Hope things go smoothly for you, pay attention to what ijasond has outlined, lotsa good tips.

 

A huge time saving tip (at least for the way I do graphics/stripes/flames). If you take your time doing tape off, and are unsure if you can finish them in the allotted window of opportunity before clear coating.
Do your base, put one coat of clear on the car, maybe 2. Then put another coat or 2 over all the panels that will NOT get striped. Now, they are finished. Let the clear cure a day or 2, sand it with 800 or 1000, tape off the stripes, mask off the "finished" parts of the car, then finish clearcoating the panels with the stripes.
This saves you from sanding and re-clearing all the parts of the car that don't get stripes, which is a lot of area.
This technique also helps with the usual tape off problems...tape residue when you pull the tape off, if you get some stripe paint on the base color, etc. You can clean, or sand the affected areas, without disturbing the basecoats ( which might come completely off, if you sand them, even lightly!)

 

Yes, I agree. This is a slightly different, maybe easier way of doing what I had mentioned. When laying graphics over previously applied and prepped clear, if you make a mistake, you can go so far as to take some reducer and wipe it off to start again rather than sanding the whole thing and starting completely over.

For a novice, this would probably be the method I would recommend. Laying base on base makes it much more difficult to correct any errors.