billmerbach

Question should I mess with the heads they were obviously in working order and I'm putting a stock 68 can in it so can I leave those alone basically if its not broke don't fix it?

oldcutlass

Were they worked on at anytime? How are the valve guide seals?

billmerbach

Nope all stock the guy I bought it from said he saw it run so I'm gonna go with I could leave them alone just clean up the grease and such

billmerbach

And I haven't checked but I see no shiny or chopped up anything around the valves actually looked like it burned pretty clean

oldcutlass

I would replace the valve guide seals. They are under $20, you would need a valve spring tool.


http://www.sears.com/lisle-valve-spr...3&blockType=G3

billmerbach

I believe the seals come the master kit with all my gaskets and such they are plastic half round pieces right

oldcutlass

They look like this, colors may be different.

billmerbach

Yuppie I got them in my mater gasket and seal kit is that round tube to help put them in place?

oldcutlass

Yes, but in most cases you don't need it.

billmerbach

OK making sure it wasn't another kind of seal lol

MDchanic

The idea of the plastic straw tool is to protect the inner edges of the seals as they pass over the edges of the valve keeper grooves.

- Eric

billmerbach

Ok since I have near rod bearings and will be getting new rings to what extent to I have to put the pistons in order I have them marked but I for get which is front and which is backfacing

coppercutlass

They have to go to the correct cylinders. The notches face the front but there is an offset in the location of the bearing there is a beveled edge and that one goes facing the outside of the rod journal. Don't ask me how I know but if you screw them up you will know before it's even finish. I/machine shop screwed up one rod on an engine I built years ago and I knew something was wrond when I installed on set of pistons on one journal I could not turn the crank over at all . Not to scare you but that one had me for awhile and my machine shop did not know wtf was up and it turns out I numbered the pistons in order from the rod caps front to back 1-8 and they went by firing order which means #2 is actually the first rod cap I did that engine before I was on any forum so I learned the hardway but now I know lol. So just make sure the piston notches face forward and the bevel on the rod where the bearing sits faces outwards in the journal its installed on. That engine sustained 2 years of racing and hard driving before stuff broke when I took it apart everything besided 2 bearing and 4 cracked skirts where as I installed them so even if you screw up as long as you check your work as you go you are fine. In my case using 40 year old pistons for racing was not wise.

billmerbach

Haha ok no I'm sure my rod caps are correct but how do I go about double checking and I think I only see one notch that's on the number one piston maybe I didn't pay close attention lol

coppercutlass

They all have a marking noting where the front goes usually a notch or I think an f on the area of the pin bore on the piston not sure but my factory flat tops all had a notch. Also although mixing up the rod caps is easy I'm talking about the assembly it self . If you pick up a rod with a cap pushed together and you look at the bore one side will have a pretty obvious beveled edge that's has to face the outside of the rod journal . By checking your work you make sure with every piston you install you still have movement . Now as you install you piston and rod assemblies you will get resistance but you should be able to spin it with a breaker bar . It will take some slight force to get it to spin but once its in moviton the whole assembly should rotate pretty good. Just double check your work always go back and check before you move on. Make a check list and cross off for ex. Main # torqued and you check that off etc etc. I saw some guys taking picturs of the timing gears and mark alignments that's a great idea. Stuff like that give yourself piece of mind.

billmerbach

ok and before I order main bearings is there a certain order they go on and the main caps as well cause I'm pretty sure someone has messed with the order of my stuff. and can I reuse crank bearings when I took the old crank out it came out with a little force having to be applied are they good or should I put the new ones in if I can save me some time and effort and money I'm gonna try. and the oil pump where can I get a new one and will a 455 oil pump work. and I need a carb if anyone has a good runnable carb I can buy I will buy it intake manifold attached or not

MDchanic

Oil pumps are the same, 260, 307, 330, 350, 400, 425, 455.

You can go high volume or regular volume.
The high volume will give better pressures when hot at low RPMs, the regular use slight less HP.

Make sure that you check to see whether any of your bearings is undersized and order accordingly.

The bearings should only fit one way.

You Might As Well change the mains as well as the rod bearings.

One final thing: Why are you changing the rings?
You know that if you change the rings you'll have to ream the ridge, right?

- Eric

coppercutlass

The main caps are numbered 1 - 4 with the 5th being the cap that holds the oil pump. Now I'm not 100 percent on this but I think the caps do have a slight offset so installing them backwards is impossible.

billmerbach

Even off a marine engine ik someone on here who will let me get both the pump and filter off a 455 for like 20 bucks hardly used.
And yes I have. 1 undersized I need to order a different set advance screwed me with a poorly packed box so some got bent and I couldn't find a ride to return. Them
I'm changing rod and main but the camshaft is what I'm asking about the cam is snug once inside is that a good sign it had barely any marks as well.
And ok no rings then lol they came out of the cylinder pretty snug so I assume they are still good.

billmerbach

Nvm it was the pickup and the oil adapter for 50 from a 350.
Is the pickup the same as the pump just another name?

coppercutlass

Everything will feel snug we are talking thousanths here but make sure when you install the cam to not nick the cam bearings. Use a long bolt to install. You won't be able to reall rock something at .003 clearance a whole lot so it will feel snug .

billmerbach

But I should still be able to use the bearings in there ?

coppercutlass

I couldn't tell ya. I have always replace cam bearings and cams so those are 2 things I have never re used.

billmerbach

Ok I'll see what others say if I don't have to replace them I ain't gonna too much hassel taking it to a machine shop lol

MDchanic

You probably don't need to replace the cam bearings, but the cam shouldn't really be snug if the cam and bearings are both used and broken in.
When it's in the right place, with the bearings oiled, you should be able to spin it around with minimal effort.

I can think of no reason why you would need an oil pump pickup, or an oil filter pedestal, for that matter.
The pickup is a part of the pump, which is more or less permanently attached to the pump (if factory), and which should come with the pump (most of the time).

Is there anything wrong with your current pump?

- Eric

billmerbach

Sludge and junk and thanks for the cam info

MDchanic

You can just take the oil pump apart and clean it if you feel you need to.
Just keep track of the relative positions of the gears - mark them so that they mesh the same way, and so that you don't put them in "upside down," as the gears may have mated (I'm honestly not certain whether they do), and you wouldn't want to mesh them in a non-mated way.

Look at the gears when you have the pump apart - if they're all scored up like someone ran a handful of sand through them, then you may need a new one.
If they look clean and nice, then don't sweat the small stuff.

- Eric

billmerbach

Ok sounds good.

billmerbach

Is there any sort of grease/lube I should order when I get the bearings and what kinds of rtv/gasket seal/sealer should I get for all the gaskets tonight

MDchanic

You've opened up a can of worms with that question.

For the bearings, I would recommend a good assembly lube (Lucas is usually in most stores), but some use motor oil.
If you're putting in a new cam then a cam lobe lube should come with it for the lobes.
If you're putting in a used cam, then don't forget that the lifters HAVE to all be matched to their proper lobes, or the cam WILL fail. Use assembly lube on the lobes with a used cam).

The cylinders should be coated with a thin film or motor oil.

Personally, I like the black high-temp. RTV. I see no functional difference between it and the orange, red, copper, or blue, and it blends in easier with the rest of the motor (when I take something apart and see orange RTV, I think, "Oh no, a hack worked on this part!").

I expect others to offer different suggestions.

- Eric

billmerbach

Ok paladin31 gave me used can and lifters can had like 80k on it still above minimum measurements and can lobes look good how do I know which lifters go where

MDchanic

You're kidding me.

They're not in different ZipLock baggies, or bins in an egg carton, or marked with a felt tip?

There is no way.

Used lifters without clear markings showing which goes where are garbage.

You CAN use new lifters with a used cam, though (but NOT the opposite), so you may be looking at a new set of lifters, and breaking in the cam as per the traditional instructions (as soon as you start the engine the first time, run it at 2,000 RPM for 20 minutes straight, then change oil, and use a cam break-in oil additive with the first oil, and for a few changes after that).

- Eric

billmerbach

Dang I guess I'm ordering new lifters then what about lifter rods?

billmerbach

What type do I get stock wise? And not paladins fault on the lifters he did give me that cam and stuff for free so I can't complain

MDchanic

You shouldn't need pushrods if yours are all straight (roll them on a piece of glass).

I don't have any personal recommendations on lifters - I believe that any reputable brand is fine for your application - Federal Mogul / Sealed Power (#HT-951, same number at NAPA, $88 at NAPA), Comp Cams (#852-16, $87 at Advance), Edelbrock, etc.
I'd go for the Federal / Sealed probably, as they don't claim to be any kind of performance BS, but whatever you can get is good.

- Eric

oldstata

Copper posted awhile back a set of gaskets from summit racing for like 40.00 said it was a off brand but the head gaskets in the kit was fel pro.
X2 to black rtv and treating it like a new rebuilt break in

billmerbach

Oh I have all my gaskets did I fail to mention that?

MDchanic

Aright, Bill, I just reread this thread, and I think you need to answer some questions so that we can give you the best advice possible.

First, according to Joe Padovano, you need to have either Olds 260 X-body frame mounts or (possibly) Chev. 305 X-body frame mounts with TransAm motor mounts to put a 350 in your '77 Ωmega that came with a V6.
Do you have the right frame mounts, or do you need to get them?
This has not, as far as I can tell, been addressed at all, and it is very basic and very important.

Next, from what I've gleaned from this thread, you have a '70 high compression 350 that "ran when parked," but was stored in a dry place for 20 years, which you disassembled, and which then developed surface rust, on some of the cylinders, at least, and a scratch on one cylinder.
You say that it needs a hone, but not a bore, and that the crank needs to be either cut or polished, but you never said why.
You are planning to replace the cam in the engine with one from a '68, but the '68 cam was sent to you with the lifters unmarked, so you will need to get new lifters in order to use it.
Since the '70 cam and the '68 cam are, in most cases, the same cam, why are you replacing yours? Was it damaged or rusted?
And did you keep your own lifters in order?

What parts do you now have in your possession for this engine, and, of them, which ones remain unopened and capable of being returned (especially if purchased at a local store, where there is no shipping charge to return them)?


Finally, we come to the question of whether it may be a good idea to buy another 350 (this one a low compression unit) from a member in your home state.
It seems like a no-brainer to me, if the engine is, in fact, a running engine, as this will get you on the road, and leave you to organize a proper rebuild of your other engine, as you learn more and save more money. If you've already spent a lot of money on non-returnable parts for the engine you have, you may be reluctant to walk away from that (even if only for a while), and spend money on a completely different engine, but if you haven't spent that much, and have been saving for all of the above-mentioned work, then just buying an engine you can use now may really be your best bet.

But you will need frame mounts, or any Olds engine you have will be a lawn ornament.

- Eric

billmerbach

Ok I'll answer this in complete detail later but I haven't really spent a lot on this one just a new reman crank gasket kit and that's really all as far as cam it was lobed very noticeably and I needed a new one I didn't keep the lifters cause bad cam more than. Likely bad lifters and yes just honed it was on a spot where the oil didn't hot the cylinder wall I fixed that I want to do as you suggest and get the low compression so I can at least get running. I'll be on an off here while in class hope this somewhat clears things up till I can get home to clarify in detail

MDchanic

Good, so it sounds like you're not too far out of pocket on what you've got already:
Something like $90 for the engine with the bad cam lobes, $175 for a reman. crank and bearings, $50 or whatever for a gasket set, and a small amount on the new cam with the lifter grab-bag.

Obviously, you can use the crank on the block you have, if and when you get to it, provided you don't change direction (always possible), as well as the cam and the gaskets.

You can also use some of the gaskets on a new engine, if you need to.

If I may suggest, I would definitely focus on getting that other motor (after school ), especially if it has, in fact, really been running well recently, and, just as important, on tracking down some frame-side motor mounts that you can use on your car (these will have to come from a junk car, short of Divine intervention).

I'm curious to see whether others here agree with me on this one, and interested to hear the rest of your response.

Also, photos of all of this mess are very welcome, and will likely help us a lot toward helping you.

- Eric