Kyle's 77 Cutlass

what is your job? Sure you will find another job if came down to it

billmerbach

I'm being taught auto body and paint

MDchanic

Ha ha... Macaroni.

I think that's his name, now.

- Eric

billmerbach

Haha I found I can buy the one oldstata is talking about for 6 dollars at advance

oldstata

I blame it on my auto correct!! down side to using your phone all the time

billmerbach

Gaga I hate autocorrect

billmerbach

See it happened right there I mean haha

billmerbach

Alrigjty I tore down today and I need bearings And that's really it besides to hone piston rings are great although I might just replace them. Crank is in better shape than I thought not to worn no need to machine it caught in time before any damage. So after I tore it down I set my stand upside down and lifted that sob up in the air and on its wheels its sitting in the shed and I'm sitting on the couch Hahahaha probably doesn't help I have a bad back already

billmerbach

Well I have to have my crank regrouned about. 30 on mains and .2 on rods so I gotta save for that I did however purchase can bearings and freeze plug kit off eBay so that should give me something to do while I save up

oldstata

There is a tool for your cam bearings not sure I would tackle this with out it machine shop it's pretty cheap I think like 40 bucks to have these installed if it's tore down for them to knock out and install

Again just my opinion

oldstata

Oh post some pics of your progress !

billmerbach

ok I will right now its all on the block I'll get some tomorrow haha and OK thanks for the tidbit on the tool I'll be on the look out I was wondering how they were to be changed

rocketraider

Bill- get the machine shop to do the cam bearings while they do the crank. Money well spent and will be cheaper than buying the tool. They're different sizes with smallest diameter at the back of the block and largest at the front. You have to orient them right too so your cam doesn't starve for oil.

If I can get the time off I might take you to Spring AutoFair swap meet at Charlotte Speedway, but time off is tough for me to get in spring since it's always right in the middle of outage season.

oldstata

x2

billmerbach

Do I have to bring them bearings and cool that would be awesome let me know

coppercutlass

yes you need to bring them the bearings and the cam and freeze plugs . Usually that's what I give the shop. 65 to do the cam bearings and freeze plugs. You have to make sure they install the spit hole plug in the correct location as well.

billmerbach

OK will they be able to get main and rod bearings or can I get them somewheres else

coppercutlass

You can get them too. For refrence. If you are going to freshen it up plan on spending in the 700 dollar range. That's with only having the cam bearings removed and replaced. That's what I spent on my frankenstiened 350.

billmerbach

well I need them to regrind the crank and I can always get some oversized bearings

rocketraider

Bill, the bearings will actually be undersize. This means that although the bearing shells themselves are thicker than standard, they are made to fit a crankshaft that has had metal removed to correct scars or out-of-round condition.

Say if they turn .010 off the crankshaft mains and .020 off the rod journals, you'd get .010 undersize bearings for the mains and .020 undersize for the rods.

I generally don't like to go more than .020 on each bearing journal and I really prefer no more than .010, but I'm just weird like that.

If you turn .030 off those journals it's possible to cut thru the journal's hardened surface, plus to me, even though 30 thousandths of an inch doesn't sound like much, it always made me feel like some of the crank's strength had been removed.

Not saying I haven't gone 30 under on a few cranks, when machining it was cheaper than trying to find a new or even a better used one. Just never liked doing it.

Rule of thumb- crankshafts are cut undersize, piston bores are cut oversize to correct damage or excessive wear.

You're learning fast, young'un. You're not afraid to ask questions either. I like that.

billmerbach

that's what I was thinking but my dad told me other wise :/

coppercutlass

Your could possibly go with a .001 undersized. Bearings depending on how much I takes to polish the crank. Fwiw typical performance clearances are bigger than stock so I would have it polished then measured and measure one .001 undersize bearing and you may just get away with polishing the crank and rod journals..

billmerbach

Ok does anyone know the typical prices this can run

coppercutlass

Polishing the crank 50 to 80 to cut it I think 150 to 175 ish and polishing is part of the process.

oldstata

Bill I think it would be wise to call a few machine shops and get a feel of the ones that have worked on olds, if there are any in your area .

The one I am planning on using spent a good thirty min on the phone with me, as I bounced concerns of witch way to go as to basic quotes,so I could start to budget. Very help full and he didn't mind my questions even tho I bet some were repeated.

He did advise me to not buy bearing, pistons tell the machine work was done so.

By the way x2 on your fast learning and good questions being asked

billmerbach

Ok I was actually gonna use Napa as they are about the only ones in my area everyone else only does Chevy and my dad had his heads on his van redone about 8 yes ago and they've lasted and he got a fairly decent price. I'm sure tho the prices have risen but they are the only ones ik that won't rape me on prices

rocketraider

Somebody on one of the Olds boards had a sig line that said "after a point, machine work is machine work".

I kinda agree since the procedures are the same on any engine, but it helps to have someone who doesn't think "it's all GM". Most NAPA machine shops I've known have been very good. A friend's dad ran the one in Roxboro NC for years until he retired, and shortly afterwards the NAPA owner retired and closed the store so there went my machinist.

Your trouble is you're very close to NASCAR ground zero and they think everyone wants a NASCAR job- meaning $$$.

billmerbach

oh yea ik I'm hoping I can find a used crank on the forum that just needs to be polished so I can save money

rocketraider

How far have you torn down the engine? I ask because not sure if anyone had told you to mark the rods and bearing caps with the cylinder number they came out of. You can get a set of number punches at HF or Northern pretty cheap - just mark each rod and cap with the cylinder number and also the main bearing caps. Mark pistons too if you plan to reuse, but sounds like you may end up with new pistons.

Driver front of Olds engine is cylinder #1 and front to back 1,3,5,7 are on driver side. Passenger side front is #2 and front to back 2,4,6,8. Main caps are numbered 1,2,3,4,5 front to back. You should see a flat machined pad on each that you can stamp the number into. Stamp the piston either on the crown or better yet somewhere under the piston skirt, just not anywhere on the sides or near the ring grooves.

Keeping rods and caps in order isn't heinously critical since a good machine job will include resizing them for the new bearing shells, but main caps need to be kept in order to avoid having to align bore the block (more $$$). Some folks align bore during a rebuild as a matter of course, but if you don't have to spend the money for that, that money can go somewhere else. Olds blocks have good metal in them and don't expand/contract or twist as bad as some.

This link is ricer shyt, but a good explanation http://www.hybrid-racing.com/tech/ho...n-engine-bore/ Note the first pic with all the main caps in place and the boring bar feeding thru them.

Good luck, young stud! Yes, I remember all those years ago and mistakes I made from not knowing any better.

billmerbach

way ahead of you all numbered and even in a box with 1357 on left and 2468 on right the main caps are in the oil pan in order from front to back

rocketraider

Kinda figured you were bout a halfway sharp boy!

Good work!

billmerbach

haha when it come to my engine things are gonna get done bout as right as I can haha

MDchanic

Olds V8 main caps have cast-in numbers already, FWIW.

- Eric

oldstata

If you really need a crank look I to a 330 crank they are forged not sure what other work needs to be done but it's a might as well

billmerbach

what do you mean oldstata

oldstata

The 330 crank will work its stronger if you plan to build a hp motor. I am not sure if there is mods needed to the block research it first

billmerbach

I actually am going to go with the crankshaft rebuilder kit from advance its 170 and it includes main and rod bearings so instead of 175 for machining crank and money for bearings I get it all for a less cost and my wallet will feel better

oldstata

I forgot your on a budget just working to get it running


Don't mind me

billmerbach

No you're good I was just letting everyone know my plans personally I actually like the reman because of the included bearings which the way I think about it is bearings are like 55 each so a bearing set at 110 and a crank at 60 is basically what I'm getting. I like to think of it that way cause I thinkim getting a bargain

rocketraider

Be real careful with that Advance crank. Most I've seen were cut minimum 20/20 and a lot are cut .030 undersize. Again, I'm just weird like that.

330 cranks are the same stroke and use same bearing sizes as 350/403 but they are forged cranks- much stronger. There IS a difference in the bolt pattern for the flexplate or flywheel between 330 and 350 which you have to consider.