oldcutlass

I think it's interesting, the wife says lets go shopping, and Allan comes back with a new tool!

Charlie Jones

What the heck is the matter with the people of this country!
Why have we let this happen??
When I was a kid (about 50 yrs ago) almost all of the the manufactured goods here, were made in the USA.
Oh yeah, there were a few Volkswagens and some cheap Japanese toys that broke the first day!
This WAS the greatest country in the world!

oldsguybry

I guess I should of left the Sambvca alone .... I'll shut up now

First time I got drunk in 3.5 years or so............ Sorry Allen

Allan R

Ah! No mine are there but I was thinking of replacing them. It looks like that car of yours also has FE2 suspension? Are those the body braces I see in the back? If they are can you post a pic of them showing how they attach? I just got in from a very busy day so I'll take care of the quick replies now and do the update later. Thanks Brian!

Allan R

Ha! wait till I post later, got ANOTHER new tool and yup, it's also made in China. The brands I buy are all names that were originally Made in USA or Canada. Just so everyone knows, I'm still going to buy brand tools I need regardless of where they are made. It's not the consumers fault where they are made and most of us nowadays are not in a position to pay extra for what we need or get by on. This thing about who makes tools is getting out of hand.

ah64pilot

What'dya what'dya what'dya git dun taday Al?!?

Allan R

Yesterday was a day from hell. I didn't wear all my PPE when I was working on this project and ended up pretty sick from the crud I inhaled. Yeah, smart enough to wear my coverall, gloves, safety glasses, hearing protection - but in the excitement I forgot to put on my filter mask. I KNOW better so I get what I deserve. Trust me it's not pleasant though.

So here's what's transpired. First thing I did was go out to Rona and buy some better metal sawzall blades. Finest quality - still cuts like crap. I think Brian was right about this and I know he suggested to me that the one I cut through may have missed the heat treating. Well these don't work either so don't waste your money. They're 10.00/shot up here.


The brake lines came off very easily. Just pry up a bit on those 3 metal clamps on the axle tubes - just enough to get these things out. I compared the old to the new ones. They're bang on. I would bet you dollars to donuts the old ones would clean up just like that.


Getting the wheel cylinders off was a bit of a challenge. They were TIGHT and the bolts were rusted. I got out my propane torch and heated the bolts on the one with 'el rusto' bolts. They gave up without a fight after the heat. sheesh, yikes dey are hot!!! Boiled the brake fluid out of that one. Easy to see they are 7/8 in this shot. Gotta remember to take those metal push rods out and clean them for the new cylinders. Don't know if the new ones come with them.


It was time to clean up the diff a bit. I'm taking it in to AD on Mon and I'm sure they will appreciate having it clean. This was just to get the heaviest of crud off the thing and clean up where they would need to work.


There's more work to do with the brake lines though. I don't think I'll get all this done this year, but I have the full set of lines I need from ILT

ah64pilot

Allan the new wheel cylinders should come with new pistons, I would wait before you waste time cleaning those. Although, you can rebuild the old cylinders if you want to...but new ones are really cheap.

Allan R

Brian, you had asked about if the axle had the snubbers. I think the reason you couldn't see them was they were coated with overspray. This one also looks like it's seen better days - somewhat deformed.


The other control arm was starting to really bother me. I didn't want to take it to AD looking like I was doing a half a@@ job. One of my neighbors ( I call him the 'toolman' - guess why) brought over a 5 inch thin stainless cutting blade. Had to take the guard off my 4" grinder and work VERY carefully. He also insisted I use his face/throat shield when using this blade. Apparently it can shatter if not used right. So I voted to stay safe and used it.


Took less than 5 minutes total to go through the bolt on both sides. Control arm dropped out and I now have what looks like a normal set of axles.


I was really curious to see if I could find my axle code. Sure enough under the grime and undercoating it was there. SA O(Olds) axle = 2:73 which was the standard axle for most of these cars. I'm not sure what the 101 is. I'm thinking production date (My car stared it's built on April 7 1972 and finished on April 10 - a Friday PM/Monday AM car) so that would coincide perfectly. The code it's changing to will be SS O which is 3:23 with limited slip. Is that something that I should re-stamp onto the axle? Or should it just be a documentation issue?


On a return trip to the shed I also dug out the shim pack for the rear stabilizer bar. If I hadn't been so light headed I would have also dug out the brake spring hardware kits I bought a few years back too.

Allan R

One nice control arm and one not so nice. Hind sight is to valuable. The clean control arm is the result of about an hour and 10 minutes worth of work. I know media blasting would have been better, but I had this CRAZY idea in my head that I could do a better job myself. You know - doing it myself would feel more rewarding??? Not when it gives you breathing problems. I started out by grinding this sucker. Had to be careful not to go too deep. Once that was all done, I went over it with the new palm sander (Skill) that I bought at Rona. It has a nice dust collector / vacuum attachment to suck the dust away as it sands. My old one didn't have that. Toys! Once that was done I tried to clean up the areas around the bushings and in the deep rolled edge with a wire wheel. It's really nicely smoothed out and ready for welding/paint.


One of the things that was mentioned to me was to keep the control arms properly identified as left and right. Going back in the same side may be fairly important. Well guess what? Don't have to worry about that now. If you look a the top of the CA, you can see where the e brake cable has worn a small groove in them. Easy to see which goes on which side, even with fresh paint.


So today I got it in my head to remove the bushings all by myself. Watched a how to vid on You Tube. It seemed simple enough. Reality? That guy wasn't working on 40 year old bushings. I took my 1/2" hammer drill equipped it with a 5/16" bit and tried to walk it around the edge of the rubber. (variable speed control makes this easy). The drill wouldn't bite because the darn rubber was like a rock! I tried drilling 'relief' holes in the bushing. Got tons of rubber all over the floor, but the drill now walked around and bit into the rubber. Round and round it went going deeper each pass. This is what I ended up with. Some came out super easy - others were incredibly tough.


To get the bushing shells out I practised first on the old boxed control arm. After FINALLY getting it to collapse I was able to hammer them out. These are absolutely ridiculous! Took over 1/2 hour EACH to get those 2 suckers out. AD is going to do the others tomorrow. My cold chisel worked fine but those bushings were absolutely welded to the CA holes. Funny thing; the older (1970 Buick Skylark) bushings came out a lot easier than the ones on my car. Ha! Why would that surprise me?

Allan R

These were the bushings from hell. Note the relief holes in some. Others got totally shredded. I had to pull the inner sleeve on a few just to get the rubber out. I remember a wise fella telling me to let the machine shop do all this. Damn my stubborn pride anyway!


Purty looking little turds, aren't they? Even with cold chiseling the centers, the edges would not break loose from the CA. (insert choice words here) little darlin's.


Ironically these all came out easy. The ones that were the absolute easiest were the ones with the bolt still in the bushings. You know why? Just because.


Thought I'd show you the temp in the garage. As you can see it's not the warmest place to work, but it's enough for me. With coveralls on and doing this work I usually get a good sweat going. With luck the temp will hold or get warmer next week.


Well tomorrow's the big day. Buddy will be here at 0900 to load the diff and stuff and I'll be dropping it at AD around 0930. I'm hoping they can do a quick in/out and get the diff back soon.

Eightupman

You worked way too hard on those bushings. An air chisel had mine out in minutes. OR fire

Just a tip for when you press the new ones in, make sure you put in a spacer (I used a socket) at the end so the sides don't collapse.

http://www.oldspower.com/vb/showthread.php?t=57129

John

Eightupman

Yup, you called it... LOL

oldsguybry

Wow , Allen that looks almost as fun as the sandblasting I've been doing . I did manage to get all the dry skin off my hands though You really are in Canada according to that thermometer brrrrrrr

Allan R

That's a nice pictorial John. I pressed my front control arms bushings out using a ball joint press and socket spacers. I didn't like that because the socket actually exploded out of there. So I got some 2 1/2" PVC pipe, cut a ring the proper size to fit and slid it around the bushing on the install. Worked GREAT!

On the rear's I DID try using my air chisel. Guess I didn't work it long enough to get the same results. One thing I'm seeing different on your removal is you're dealing with just rust. I have that and an undercoating product that managed to seal and seep in between the bushing and the CA. Maybe I'll try your suggestion tomorrow on one of the CA's I have sitting around.

BTW, there was never any question that the diff was coming out for rebuild. That's why I called the thread another MAW disaster....

69442C

Nice progress Allan. Looks like your axle tube snubbers have definitely seen better days. It also seems as if they were in contact with the frame quite a bit. I wonder if a previous owner carried heavy loads in the trunk? Those CA bushings were really dried out. Your car will ride much better when you get to drive it with new rebuilt front and rear suspensions. Good luck with AD today. Oh, with the upgrade to 3:23 gears, are you going to change the speedo gear in the trans to keep the speedometer accurate? Also, I wouldn't re-stamp the code on the axle tube. You'll know what you have and that's all that matters.
Brian

Eightupman

Thanks . try to find this stuff. yeah it says discontued but it's downright vicious.. It melted the undercoating off the floor panel I got in a trade.

And fire will take care of that undercoating.

http://3mcollision.com/mar-hyde-tal-...-per-case.html

Allan R

Thanks John. I dropped everything off at Alberta Driveline around 9:30. They have everything in their hands now. I asked them to remove the bushing shells and also media blast the 3 remaining control arms. I want them back to box and paint before pressing in new bushings.

Lady72nRob71

Nice fight with them bushings! I feel fortunate to have just replaced the whole arms...

Allan R

I think I know how that happened. Back in 84 the rear springs had sagged so much it was like driving on an uphill roller coaster. Was like that for about 1/2 year??? When the springs were changed, the snubbers probably should have been too. I'm ordering new ones.

CLcutlass

looks like you have been busy :0). Those bushings are bringing back bad memories for me.

Eddie Hansen

Really nice job Allan , just an aside those spacers that come with the sway bar kit will not fit into standard boxed control arms I think your having yours welded so those spacers may need to be tacked in first I don't know for sure just a fwiw

Allan R

What? That's almost like.... Cheating!

You don't know the half of it, but yes! Bushings are designed to encourage bad feelings. I had a blast with the ones on the front! Can hardly wait to press in the new ones when I get everything back!

Thanks Eddie. ??? The control arms need to be boxed to have the sway bar. Why would I need to tack the shims? They are the right dimensioning for the sway bar bolts. If need be, I can always cut a shim if needed for proper gaps.

Eightupman

No, the control arms do not NEED to be boxed for the swaybar. Those spacers are designed to fit into a standard run of the mill unboxed swaybar so the hardware will not crush them when tightened. This is the way later model G body swaybars were designed, except the spacer is a single piece of flat steel that has been "rolled" I guess around the bolts.

John

Allan R

Ok, I understand what you're saying. My intention is to upgrade the rear suspension and driveline to what the 72 W29 would have had ordered with the FE2 suspension and 3:23 gears. That combination did have the boxed control arms. If you look back in the thread, you will also see the body braces I cleaned up and are awaiting installation. Keep all this helpful info coming!

Eddie Hansen

No the shims don't need to be tacked I was thinking the spacers did before you but the flat pieces on, those spacers came with the bolt and shim kit I got from parts place and they did not fit into my boxed arms.
I guess like john says you can use unboxed arms if you have the spacers sorry for the confusion

Eddie Hansen

Btw I thought you bought a control arm boxing kit that is what I mean by flat pieces. Oh and if anybody wants those spacers I have a set for free just pm me first come first served :-)

Eightupman

I see you have the boxing kit... I have a set of stock boxed ones as well that had been crunched in the center some... I'm not sure how that happened...

John

Allan R

Eddie, you are right. I have the boxing kit. I also have a set of stock boxed OEM control arms that came off a 70 Buick Skylark. It was a toss up which set to use. I decided to keep the stock control arms and box them. Tim is going to bring home some of the proper wire for his mig and tack them for me. I asked if I can do some because I've always wanted to try that. Have to wait for everything to come back from the driveline shop first. Thanks for the comments and suggestions.

sammy

Allan, does that mean the 70 skylark ones are available?

Ted

Allan R

Yup, you interested in them? If you want, I can shoot some pics of them and send them to your home email. I removed the bushings from one already, and the other is half way done. Just an FYI, they were very rough but cleaned up pretty decent. They are still very usable.

sammy

Yup, I would interested Allan.....send away!

Ted

Allan R

The last couple of days were dedicated to the drive shaft and some of the brake parts that will be re-used.

Ah, the bliss of never having pulled a drive shaft. The yoke bolts and collars will all be looking like new when they go on. This was just before I learned how much transmission fluid comes out when you pull the shaft out. Hee hee hee. Good thing I left the container under the car. When I checked it today, it was almost full.


When I took the drive shaft out it was literally coated on one side with that black undercoat and rusty scabby on the other side. I'm thinking that could be a slight issue with some of the vibration that was noticed. Here's the shaft as it came out of the car. You can see the ghost outline of one of the stripes under the crud. The other one is about 18 inches towards the front.


Everywhere I go under this car there's that black crud. Prolly helped keep any rust at bay, but it's God awful stuff to strip off. It got everywhere - even into the u-joints


Take note of the surface on the shaft. It's not terrible but it's not pretty either.

Tony72Cutlass'S'

Al,

How do the U-joints come out?? Are they pressed in?

I know im not saying much, but you should know that i'm watching this on my phone at work whenever possible. Keep up the great work!

Also, what did you end up doing with the fuel sender? Are you going to cap the inlet?

Allan R

Started out grinding using about 80 grit to cut through the crud. Takes a long time to go the length of the shaft. Switch to 100 and do it again. Then 180, then 240, then 400 wet/dry. By the time I was done that drive shaft was smoother than a baby's bottom. The tricky parts were the weights and the collars holding the u-joints. Finally got to the taping. Since I decided to keep the original u-joints (because they show the Saginaw emblem AND they still work great) the caps got taped off so they would be bright silver as they were when they were new.


It was pretty windy outside and the garage was just too cold to paint in. So I moved the shaft out to the shed (south yard) where it was nice and warm (about 70°). Hung the shaft from the rafters on an improvised coat hanger rig. I was hemming and hawing about what color this should be. I finally decided to do it in metal cast. It's that happy medium that is not bright silver, but not cast either. After the shaft had been drying for about an hour it was safe to move it and lay it in the sun to cure faster. The stripes are taped off so you can't see them. When this is done, I think I'll go with 600 wet on the finish and then clear the whole thing.

From this angle it looks almost black, but a nice satin finish. It's not black though. Show you in a minute.


Here you can see the effect of metal cast paint. When I took off the tape from the caps, the contrast was really vivid. This will be so awesome when it goes into the car I bet people will lay down for me to run them over just so they can see it up close


I don't have the best camera in the world (little Canon A510 Sure shot) but it gets most of what I need. Trying to show the finish on the shaft in this pic. It's a beautiful satin look. That red blemish you see in the right side of the shaft is my coveralls reflecting in the sun.

oldcutlass

The original ujoints are held in by plastic pins. The easiest way to get those out is with a torch, just heat the flanges and the plastic will ooze out like one of those 4th of July carbon snakes we used to light up as kids.

Seriously Allan, maw change those.

Btw your making great progress there.

Allan R

Tony, the factory u-joints are sealed in with plastic. To get them out, you have to use heat to melt the plastic. It will get so hot it will 'poop' out those holes on the shaft collar. Look at the first pic on the post I just did - you can see the u-joint caps taped off. See that little reddish 'tit' sticking out? That's the factory plastic seal. Once you melt the plastic out, the u-joint should come out like any other. Usually when you put in u-joints you do end up pressing them in. Glad you're enjoying this.

re: sender? Haven't done anything with it yet. But the plan is to crimp the return line and solder it shut. I wish I had the tank out before I ordered the sender. No big deal though - the basic sender is the same for both applications.

oldcutlass

My god how 4 mins can change everything. Well since you got that thing all pretty and painted I guess I might as well retract my maw.

Allan R

Finally understand what Brian (69442C) was talking about with the e brake clips. He tried to explain the cables were held by clips that look like Mickey Mouse ears. It was just too far fetched for me to understand. I kept thinking he was talking about the clips like the brake hose is attached with. But he was bang on the money. I found them today. Popped the clips off and dropped out the e brake cables on both sides. They look Ug lee! Ordered new cables from NAPA - they are 40.00 here, or 40.00 + shipping from the US. Duhhh I think I'll support the local market today. I'll take one of them down when I pick up the order to make sure it's the right one. Apparently this is the same part number for both sides.


Well that's not as easy to see the clips look like Mickey's ears, so here's a close up. NOW you can see the familiar shape...believe it or not, I'm cleaning these too.


Well ya know for sure that if you're replacing the e brake cables your connectors also should look new. Not like this. (familiar black crud is everywhere I tell ya! Makes me so mad!)


Took about 1/2 hour to get both of them cleaned. the reverse curved areas are somewhat difficult to get to - that takes time. When they were done, I was so pleased with the finish I didn't want to paint them, so I sprayed them with clear.




Now where did I put them??? Are you kidding me? I bag everything and hide stuff where it's least visible. Right in plain sight. No - everything goes into the trunk of the car so I know where it is.

Allan R

Yeah, it's like watching the progress on TV. What happens here in 4 minutes took me literally hours of work in real life. Thanks Eric! 1 less MAW is a good thing. Wait till you see the finished pic. IMHO the shaft should hang over the fireplace - it looks that nice.