Gassed - another MAW disaster?

Old August 31st, 2012, 12:04 PM
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Gassed - another MAW disaster?

Last fall I found out the gas tank on my 72 Cutlass was leaking. Not sure exactly where but it was creating a gas drip at times that was only inches away from the right side exhaust. Found this quite by accident when Tony72CutlassS was asking questions about his rear shocks and I went under the car to get him some pics. Thanks, Tony I owe ya one.

Anyway it's time for the gas tank replacement and the INEVITABLE MAW's that go with it.

Right off the bat, the MAW's kicked in. You all know it's not necessary to take off the rear bumper to drop the tank, right? Well so did I, but I have a nice dual cutout waiting to go in...so MAW get the bumper and hardware out....

BTW if any of you are looking for an OEM rear bumper that has been replated and in really excellent shape, the one shown on the car is up for grabs.
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Old August 31st, 2012, 12:08 PM
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I see a L-O-N-G MAW thread in your near future.
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Old August 31st, 2012, 12:18 PM
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That is one nice cutout bumper there Allan
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Old August 31st, 2012, 12:33 PM
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I see a rear end coming out for detailing, maybe even powdercoat I love the bumpers too! Both of them!
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Old August 31st, 2012, 01:01 PM
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Drop the rear!
Drop the rear!
Drop the rear!



It's probably dirty.
.
.

Actually dropping it will help gain you access to the upper control arm BUSHINGS and brake hose that are probably too old.
.
Control arms may need paint...
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

Would you like an anti-MAW helmet to go with that?
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Old August 31st, 2012, 01:25 PM
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Seems that a frame-off is the only sensible thing to do here.
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Old August 31st, 2012, 01:42 PM
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I'll give ya $50 for it.










...shipped
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Old August 31st, 2012, 01:47 PM
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Allan,

These are nice
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Old August 31st, 2012, 02:17 PM
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I agree, where can you stop really? You're going to be bolting nice clean new parts to what? I'm doing a front spring upgrade soon. I sure hope I can get away with that... Maybe I'll do it in the dark.
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Old August 31st, 2012, 02:19 PM
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I'd hang that cut out bumper in my living room.
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Old August 31st, 2012, 03:00 PM
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You're not going to leave that area behind the bumper looking like that are you?

So is the car officially down for the winter?
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Old August 31st, 2012, 03:27 PM
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Sorry bout that guys. I was in the middle of the second post when my wife asked me to take her shopping. That was important since I need to keep her from spending the money I plan to spend on a new 3 1/2 ton floor jack... Yikes!! In the meantime I see a few of you have found this thread. I knew there would be some helpful suggestions right off the mark.

So the next step was to drain the fuel. I think the lesson here is why wash your mouth out with soap when you can do it with gas?? awweekkk, ptui!!! Repeat as needed. The gas gage says the tank is 3/4 full but I know that means it only has about 12 gallons. Got 5 gallons out without much effort, so I emptied the jerry can into my waiting Sonata. I had run the Sonata lower than normal to help out with this.

Back to the trough to get some more gas. Can't seem to get it flowing again even with a longer hose. And I'm tired of tasting gas in my mouth...there's gotta be an easier way to do this.

Well, I know the drill on the teardown stuff pretty well now. Take lots of pics so I can see what I'm about to screw up, I mean refurbish/replace.

Start with pics of the tank and straps. I can't believe how well preserved everything under there is right now. Did you know that there is a part number 307042 stamped into the OEM tank?? I also found the patch that was put on the tank back in the 80's.
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Old August 31st, 2012, 03:31 PM
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Vent? Who wants to vent???

So the next set of pics is the fuel lines and vent hoses that go from the tank to the cannister.

I think if I undo the clamp that holds all those lines together everything should be able to swing free and be easier to work with?
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Old August 31st, 2012, 03:34 PM
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Might as well!

These guys wouldn't give you all this
'buisness' if they didn't like ya much, ha ha.
I vote FRAMEOFF....
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Old August 31st, 2012, 03:40 PM
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More pics

As I looked around under the car, I could see the springs and shocks were suggesting they wanted to come out for cleaning / replacing. The shocks are Monroe and still seem to be in decent shape, but I'll prolly replace them just on principle. The springs are not original. Back in 82 the rear of the car was riding like it had 5 tons of gravel in it. Rear springs were shot. So I had a spring shop replace them. Right after that it felt like I was sitting facing downhill for a while, but the car sure rode nice. Still sits fine and rides well. I don't think I'll have any problems breaking those nuts loose.

The ground wire looks fine, it has a coating that protected it from the elements.
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Old August 31st, 2012, 03:51 PM
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Allan,

Send the young'un off to college and start the resto project. You must have bass.............., bet the young'un cost cha more.
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Old August 31st, 2012, 03:57 PM
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Smile Thanks Guys!! ... I think.....

Originally Posted by Jamesbo View Post
I see a L-O-N-G MAW thread in your near future.
Hee hee hee. I also have one of those W27 covers to install. Wish I had the entire carrier....

Originally Posted by GAOldsman View Post
That is one nice cutout bumper there Allan
Thx Scot. That's the Tamraz version. Cost me 385 + shipping many years ago. Thanks for the vote of confidence

Originally Posted by ah64pilot View Post
I see a rear end coming out for detailing, maybe even powdercoat I love the bumpers too! Both of them!
You would prolly be right on that Steve. I was already looking up how to do that. I just need to get with the program and git'r done. Be sure to stay tuned. I'll be sure to keep this updated as I go and experience from those who have gone before me is really appreciated.
Originally Posted by Lady72nRob71 View Post
Drop the rear!
Drop the rear!
Drop the rear!


Actually dropping it will help gain you access to the upper control arm BUSHINGS and brake hose that are probably too old. Control arms may need paint... Would you like an anti-MAW helmet to go with that?
I remember that font/size from... where was it now????? Oh yeah - Do the bushings! I foresee a great future for this car my Dark Lord.. BTW, why stop there? It's getting a complete FE2 suspension. I have the boxed control arms, braces and sway bar too.

Originally Posted by Seff View Post
Seems that a frame-off is the only sensible thing to do here.
But then, I'm not that sensible

Originally Posted by CQR View Post
I'll give ya $50 for it. ...shipped
Clint? You are one cheap guy! But you gave me a good laugh!

Originally Posted by Intragration View Post
I agree, where can you stop really? You're going to be bolting nice clean new parts to what? I'm doing a front spring upgrade soon. I sure hope I can get away with that... Maybe I'll do it in the dark.
I did the front end already. It was soooooo much fuuunnnnn! You definitely DON'T want to do it in the dark. We wanna see how many curse words you learn doing it...

Originally Posted by Highwayman View Post
You're not going to leave that area behind the bumper looking like that are you? So is the car officially down for the winter?
Nope! And Nope. I got 2 months and it better be at least back on it's side of the garage so my Mrs. can park inside over the winter.

Originally Posted by tru-blue 442 View Post
These guys wouldn't give you all this
'buisness' if they didn't like ya much, ha ha. I vote FRAMEOFF....
Them's kind words and I thankee. Your vote has officially been tossed in the turlet along with Seff's
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Old August 31st, 2012, 03:58 PM
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I'd bewilling to bet that all that is needed under there is a really good cleaning, detailing, and a bit of touch up. The underside of your car looks great! I'll also bet those shocks are still good, even the rubber bushings look fine.

However, your going to have to redo the tailpipes!

Last edited by oldcutlass; August 31st, 2012 at 04:05 PM.
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Old August 31st, 2012, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Allan R View Post
Last fall I found out the gas tank on my 72 Cutlass was leaking. Not sure exactly where but it was creating a gas drip at times that was only inches away from the right side exhaust. Found this quite by accident when Tony72CutlassS was asking questions about his rear shocks and I went under the car to get him some pics. Thanks, Tony I owe ya one.
Hey Al,

Sorry to hear i brought upon the MAW's, but i'm happy to hear that it'll make the car safer. I was so freaked out when i found out how close the exhaust was leaking to the gas tank.

What are you plans for the bumper? Is the new one the one that you got from Tamraz's? It looks to be in gorgeous shape.
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Old August 31st, 2012, 04:06 PM
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Heeeerrrreeee'ss Johnny!!!

You didn't think I was going to keep y'all in suspense a whole lot longer did you?

Jamesbo - Yup, he cost me a LOT more. But the car I can screw up on = him I can't. College is worth every penny. Doing the car myself is worth every penny of experience and knowledge I get out of this. I may be old, but I never stop learning...

So you know the old tank is going to the boneyard. Too bad I can't take it out to the range and pop it with a 30.06 or something. That would make a great video... So I'll just drop it out, drain it, plug it and send it to the boneyard. I don't know if anyone wants an old patched gas tank. If you do, better speak up now.

Here's what is going in there. Brand new GM34R from Spectra Premium. The whole tank is coated with a waxy oil to protect it from rusting. I think I'm going to leave it exactly like that when it goes in.
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Old August 31st, 2012, 04:10 PM
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Now your going to have to upgrade the Hood!!!
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Old August 31st, 2012, 04:17 PM
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Hey Allan, looks like you are starting to wade into the deep end of the pond!! Just look what a little fuel leak can lead to! Since that differential may be coming out, MAW just give it a good overhaul. LOL! Then there's those U-joints that will need attention and since that shaft will be out, MAW replace the trans seal. But they you'll probably get trans fluid all over the cross member so that will need to come out for cleaning and detailing. Hmmm, better expand the amount of time allocated for the work.

On a serious note, make sure the new rubber fuel hoses you get are compatible with the fuels we have today. If you have ethanol in your fuels in Canada, make sure the fuel hoses will work with it (MAW replace the rest of the rubber hoses too). Also, I think you're going to need a set of exhaust trumpets to go with that spiffy new bumper. If you need a set, I just happend to have 2 new ones I will sell.
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Old August 31st, 2012, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by oldcutlass View Post
I'd bewilling to bet that all that is needed under there is a really good cleaning, detailing, and a bit of touch up. The underside of your car looks great! I'll also bet those shocks are still good, even the rubber bushings look fine. However, your going to have to redo the tailpipes!
100% right Eric. Most of the underside only has a light coating of dust/water drops. Good clean up will prolly include scuffing it down and light coat of black paint to freshen it. I agree with the shocks. Might just clean them and paint them if they are ok.

The exhaust is good right up to the resonators. Both of them have rotted so they will come out. I don't think I can keep them because my plan is to run the pipes straight back to the trumpet exhausts. Not sure where the hangers go yet, but I've got the right ones for the setup. I'll have it done at a quality muffler shop.

Originally Posted by Tony72Cutlass'S' View Post
Sorry to hear i brought upon the MAW's, but i'm happy to hear that it'll make the car safer. I was so freaked out when i found out how close the exhaust was leaking to the gas tank.

What are you plans for the bumper? Is the new one the one that you got from Tamraz's? It looks to be in gorgeous shape.
Tony, I think Rob and I were way into MAW city before we met you, so you're off the hook. You think YOU freaked when I found out about that gas leak. I darn near crapped myself. Yup, Tamraz and it's nicer than a perky set of 38's on a Montreal hooker! The OEM one is up for grabs.

When I was pricing out the new tank I almost had the big one, and I don't mean D. This tank is MADE IN CANADA (Sorry bout the Caps - I'm just so damn proud we make some quality stuff) in Quebec by Spectra Premium. They in turn will sell it to Canadians through a retail outlet for 399.00 Aren't they just so suwheet?? They also send the EXACT same tank down to the USA where it is marketed for 175.00 I was a little pissed about that. Checked with Rock auto for pricing. It was Great! until you get to shipping. $224.00 to ship a 175.00 tank, then the customs people tax it with brokerage. I LUCKED OUT. My old company allows me to still buy at wholesale from NAPA. Got the tank for 226.00 locally.
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Old August 31st, 2012, 04:26 PM
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Allan, don't toss your original lock ring that holds the sending unit in place. The new one that came with the new tank I bought for the 69 didn't work worth a crap. Had to use the original one which fit perfectly.
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Old August 31st, 2012, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by oldcutlass View Post
Now your going to have to upgrade the Hood!!!
Ya know I seriously thought of that. I worked out all the logistics and costs. Then I said, "What would oldcutlass do"? That made up my mind on the spot. I'll upgrade the hood by adding the W29 striping package!! All said and done, the Thornton hood, underhood, hardware, shipping, fitting and painting would run me close to 5000.00 up here. Course, if you have a spare W25 hood for this puppy you'd like to donate to the "Allan R" benevolent fund...

Originally Posted by 69442C View Post
Hey Allan, looks like you are starting to wade into the deep end of the pond!! Just look what a little fuel leak can lead to! Since that differential may be coming out, MAW just give it a good overhaul. LOL! Then there's those U-joints that will need attention and since that shaft will be out, MAW replace the trans seal. But they you'll probably get trans fluid all over the cross member so that will need to come out for cleaning and detailing. Hmmm, better expand the amount of time allocated for the work.

On a serious note, make sure the new rubber fuel hoses you get are compatible with the fuels we have today. If you have ethanol in your fuels in Canada, make sure the fuel hoses will work with it (MAW replace the rest of the rubber hoses too). Also, I think you're going to need a set of exhaust trumpets to go with that spiffy new bumper. If you need a set, I just happend to have 2 new ones I will sell.
Brian, glad to see you here! I did plan to drop the differential and have the Series 3 posi I got from Jim (monzaz). Will go nicely with the 3:23 ring and pinions I got from him too. Since that's coming out I figured on rebuilding the rear drum brakes as well. If you need a set of 3:42's LMK . Plans include replace the U joints, clean and detail the driveshaft, but I'm not touching the tranny/engine this year. Not enough time before it gets too cold. When I was looking at the brake lines on the axle, I see they are in tack welded clips. You run into that on your 69 build?

Fuel hoses are all being replaced with new. Pretty sure the stuff they sell nowadays is designed for methanol stuff. The old hoses actually look amazing. The lines don't appear to be corroded at all. Got 2 sets of trumpets for that exhaust because I wasn't sure what size pipe I would run.

The rear drums/brakes right now are resisting coming off. I need to pop the rear star adjuster plug out and back off the shoes a bit. Have to measure the tolerances and check the brake shoes for wear. I honestly don't know when the last service on them was. Have to wait till the drum comes off to see what condition the wheel cylinders are in. I'm glad I took a pic of the back of the backing plate - this is not the plug that any of the repro's sell, it's round instead of oval. I got a better pic somewhere, just not handy right now....sorry
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Old August 31st, 2012, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Allan R View Post
Ya know I seriously thought of that. I worked out all the logistics and costs. Then I said, "What would oldcutlass do"? That made up my mind on the spot. I'll upgrade the hood by adding the W29 striping package!! All said and done, the Thornton hood, underhood, hardware, shipping, fitting and painting would run me close to 5000.00 up here. Course, if you have a spare W25 hood for this puppy you'd like to donate to the "Allan R" benevolent fund...



Brian, glad to see you here! I did plan to drop the differential and have the Series II posi I got from Jim (monzaz). Will go nicely with the 3:23 ring and pinions I got from him too. Since that's coming out I figured on rebuilding the rear drum brakes as well. If you need a set of 3:42's LMK . Plans include replace the U joints, clean and detail the driveshaft, but I'm not touching the tranny/engine this year. Not enough time before it gets too cold. When I was looking at the brake lines on the axle, I see they are in tack welded clips. You run into that on your 69 build?

Fuel hoses are all being replaced with new. Pretty sure the stuff they sell nowadays is designed for methanol stuff. The old hoses actually look amazing. The lines don't appear to be corroded at all. Got 2 sets of trumpets for that exhaust because I wasn't sure what size pipe I would run.

The rear drums/brakes right now are resisting coming off. I need to pop the rear star adjuster plug out and back off the shoes a bit. Have to measure the tolerances and check the brake shoes for wear. I honestly don't know when the last service on them was. Have to wait till the drum comes off to see what condition the wheel cylinders are in. I'm glad I took a pic of the back of the backing plate - this is not the plug that any of the repro's sell, it's round instead of oval. I got a better pic somewhere, just not handy right now....sorry
I did run into the welded on clips on the rear diff. All were there but if you have any missing, repops are sold.

In looking at one of your photos, I see the access for the adjuster was never knocked out. I used to see that years ago when I worked on these cars. You can see at the bottom center of the backing plate that the oval metal piece is still there. Unusual to see that on your car after all these years. Just shows that no one ever externally adjusted those rear brakes. You can knock that inner metal piece out with a hammer and chissel (takes a little effort) and the oval rubber plug will install there.
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Old August 31st, 2012, 06:21 PM
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MAW replace those rear drums with discs. trying to be helpfull

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Old August 31st, 2012, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by oldcutlass View Post
Now your going to have to upgrade the Hood!!!
Allan, I will see this guy on this coming Sunday.
For only 20 bucks I will whack him for ya.
.
Buy 2, get one free!

Cheaper than a new hood, right?
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Old August 31st, 2012, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Allan R View Post
I think if I undo the clamp that holds all those lines together everything should be able to swing free and be easier to work with?
Doesn't maller, Allan - you're not going to reuse them, so just cut them all with a garden pruner (be sure to bring your umbrella!) and be done with it.

You'll have more room to mess with the clip when the tank is out (and the rear, and the exhaust system, and the... ).

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Old September 1st, 2012, 02:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Allan R View Post
Nope! And Nope. I got 2 months and it better be at least back on it's side of the garage so my Mrs. can park inside over the winter.
lol, i know the feeling. i have to find new homes for cars before winter or the wife will be parking outside this winter. looks like the project is going well.
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Old September 1st, 2012, 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Lady72nRob71 View Post
Allan, I will see this guy on this coming Sunday.
For only 20 bucks I will whack him for ya.
.
Buy 2, get one free!

Cheaper than a new hood, right?
I bet for an extra $10, I'll bet he would do Steve also! And Rob will probably have his camera!
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Old September 1st, 2012, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by oldcutlass View Post
I bet for an extra $10, I'll bet he would do Steve also! And Rob will probably have his camera!
In fact i do offer a bulk discount.
And yes, I do have to post the video for proof of delivery...
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Old September 1st, 2012, 11:43 AM
  #33  
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Have fun with your under car odyssey Allan. How much trouble can you get into in only 2 months
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Old September 1st, 2012, 11:59 AM
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Good luck Allan! I think you're going to need it
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Old September 1st, 2012, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by 1971four4two View Post
Have fun with your under car odyssey Allan. How much trouble can you get into in only 2 months
This is not a valid point!!!!!!
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Old September 1st, 2012, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by oldcutlass View Post
This is not a valid point!!!!!!

I was trying to plant the seed of an idea for him to restore in moderation as he only had the 2 month window.

Have you got the body off the frame yet????
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Old September 1st, 2012, 01:42 PM
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Remember, you might as well redo the body putty around the drain plugs under the seats. Oh, and sandblast the backside of the wirewall to make sure it doesn't rust.
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Old September 1st, 2012, 02:45 PM
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You MAW get a new fuel sending unit since the tank is out f the car. Also, drop that rear and install that posi and 3.23 gears. And MAW install that W-27 cover. On one of those rears that I have in my avatar.
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Old September 1st, 2012, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by MDchanic View Post
Doesn't maller, Allan - you're not going to reuse them, so just cut them all with a garden pruner (be sure to bring your umbrella!) and be done with it. You'll have more room to mess with the clip when the tank is out (and the rear, and the exhaust system, and the...
LOL, I know. I just don't like having gas spilled on me unnecessarily. Maybe I'll jack up the car a little higher so I have more room. Too many of my neighbors are careless smokers.. I have a plan for this - stay tuned. Not removing the exhaust system - muffler shop will do the pipes back from the axle to the trumpets.

Originally Posted by 1971four4two View Post
Have fun with your under car odyssey Allan. How much trouble can you get into in only 2 months
I realize 2 months is ambitious. How much trouble? Man you just have to come up for a visit to know the answer to that one!! I just hope I haven't bitten off more than I can chew. Just so everyone knows, the car has very little to no rust on it anywhere so I really don't need to worry about a frame off right now. I realize that all your frame off suggestions were of the best interests and I might have come across wrong in a previous post about not doing it. In a perfect situation I would be and I would document everything like what Brian is doing on his 69 vert project. As we speak my son is designing me a new house with an attached 36' X 24' garage. It will have 220 wiring, running hot/cold water, 12' ceiling etc. So nice to have a young budding Architect in training.

Originally Posted by Lady72nRob71 View Post
Allan, I will see this guy on this coming Sunday. For only 20 bucks I will whack him for ya. .
Buy 2, get one free!
Cheaper than a new hood, right?
Checks in the mail. So you'd do Steve too as a bundle? I take a break from the Texas thread and the inmates turn on each other??? Sad Jethro, fact that's right sad. Might as well dunk em in the cement pond. Don't let Granny hear ya talking like that y'hear?

Originally Posted by car_designer View Post
Good luck Allan! I think you're going to need it
Prolly right Paul. Gonna give it my best though. Anything you see going ??? on the build, be sure to LMK> I should have started earlier, but I had other issues to deal with that made it impossible. This time of the year should be ok I hope - not too hot - not too cold.

Originally Posted by joesw31 View Post
You MAW get a new fuel sending unit since the tank is out f the car. Also, drop that rear and install that posi and 3.23 gears. And MAW install that W-27 cover. On one of those rears that I have in my avatar.
Joe!! you must have been reading ^^^?? That's exactly what my plans are. Fact is the sender is on its way from ILT as we speak. Posi is in the shed with the ring and pinion 3:23's and the rear axle has a date with Alberta Driveline to do the installation and shims. And I do have that W27 cover too!
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Old September 1st, 2012, 04:47 PM
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Driving me friggin NUTS!!

What do you do with the galactically stupid? When I took off the bumper brackets and bumper I found that the brackets weren't properly bolted to the car. Ken, the guy who did the resto back in 86 apparently lost a couple of the carriage bolts that hold the brackets so he just put in one on each side and then put flat washers and 19mm bolts/nuts in the other holes and torqued them. Still allows some movement if the OEM jack (another MAW issue) is used. I was really NOT HAPPY when I found this short cut and wondered what else I would find.

Then it occurred to me that I'd had trouble on the front bumper last year when I was doing the front end overhaul. Looked at the bumper fasteners and the carriage bolts are missing - replaced with straight bolts and flat washers. That's prolly why the bumper ended up sagging and breaking the stone shield. I'd like to find him now and kick his a$$. He also used the wrong fasteners on the NOS grills I provided; and he cracked one of the mounting tabs in the process.

The brackets will get refinished and set into place properly with new carriage bolts. I just went to Partsource (Autozone in US) and they carry them for 1.75 each. So none of the bolts, nuts or screws I'm putting back in will be restored. They will all be new.

Here's the proper carriage bolt that was on one side. I have to find those different style lock washers somewhere. If any of you have some lying around LMK. Anyway one of these had the lock against the nut instead of the bracket....DUHHHH????


This is what I'm finding throughout the front and rear bracket assemblies. How much effort would it have been to just call the local GM dealer and get the right parts at the time???


On the bumper brackets I can clearly see where the bracket had been fastened at the factory and by Ken. The difference in the placement of the carriage bolt will account for the larger than normal space between the deck and top of rear bumper.
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