Nice compressor Allan! That has an on/off switch on it, right? I'm always very cautious when I'm trailering or hauling anything big. I've been called overcautious by one buddy, but I figure it's better to be a little extra careful than to watch your load passing you.

 

I'm just having some fun with him .

 

We'll see. I might have to buy another project after this one's done. Besides, you already have a 1993 Buick that needs your help with a fuel pump IIRC.

Thank you Brian. I think we use the oven more than the duty cycle of the compressor so very likely not much change. I also think the service the compressor will provide will offset not only electrical but other costs for parts cleanup.

Actually no it doesn't at this time. I have to wire a switch to the wall for on/off. Right now the only 'shutoff' is really the pressure switch. If I turn it off, it stops electrical flow to the motor - otherwise in Auto it cycles with tank pressure and manufacturer set points.

Overcautious? Me too. I believe we think alike on this. Would be different if I had a big truck where this could be lashed to the side wall, but I don't. I was very nervous because the load is so top heavy and laying the compressor on it's side was not an option because it has oil already in it. (about 1 1/2 qts according to the man specs).

 

Millie was originally a Calgary car. Think she should go back to her home province for a little stay with you. Can I pick her up in April? You are doing amazing work that is putting us all to shame. Keep up the good work. drooooooool.....

Adam

I still have not seen the 455 install thread, I am always flirting with that one too, however Millie is a Frankencutlass so originally is not a huge concern.

 

Hi Allen,

I brought a cheaper PA version and so far so good so that thing should be real good....I secured mine to the garage floor by drilling out three cheap hockey pucks and using concrete anchors.

L1 is usually one of the hot wires that you will have to use....it may be connected to the thermal Overload in the junction/connection box.

 

Hockey pucks? Wow great idea !!! I mounted mine to the floor and I found some rubber washers , I could have also probably used some pieces of the tire rubber that was used for those cheap exhaust hangars ... but it is bolted to the floor I wouldn't just have it mobile, . Allan I would also look into making some kind of still like condenser for the air, my 60 gallon still let's a lot of water into the hose because the outlet is right by the compressor, if you have a mind a length of pipe, some t fittings etc will allow you to bury the compressor in a corner and have different access points.

I don't know if there is a harbor freight by you but I just picked up 2 x 25 rolls of genuine Goodyear rubber hose for 17 us each with my hf coupon

 

I found out my error by calling Rick at PA. L1 is a hot lead. The wiring goes like this:
Black L1 - goes to black hot 220 source

Blue & Red & Black - marrette them all together

Black & White - goes to Red hot 220 source

Green - ground.

Eddie, thank you for thinking of that. I have a water trap installed 15 ft from the compressor to catch the water in the line. Works very well too. The compressor will eventually make its way into the corner of the garage - needs to be about 18" from the wall for proper air flow and cooling. I'll likely put some rubber pads under the feet with concrete anchors. Just have to make sure I do it right and not crack the slab. BTW, see your build, there's a question there from me to you re: differential.

 

Very nice Allan.

 

I wouldn't have any at all today. Sounds bad doesn't it? Let me share this with you. I will NEVER trust anything anyone at AD says about anything again.

This morning I picked up my differential and brought it home. Sounds good doesn't it? Even though it was about 3 weeks long in the tooth it's finally home? Don't bet on it. When I unpacked the axles, they didn't look right. I had asked for new oil seals and bearings to be installed. A quick glance was all that was needed to see that hadn't been done. Are you ready for this??? On one axle was this set of square cut bearings and retainer. I suspect that this was the axle with the leaking seal if you look close at the oil seal.


It fits into this axle tube. Hmmm, a square cut bearing in an Olds axle? I thought they were all cup/cone style. Could this be one of those things that was just thrown in at the factory like the green/yellow drives haft instead of black / yellow? I always was under the impression that bearings should be matched.


The other axle has cone bearings and you can see they are still quite original. What bugs me now is it looks like there are 2 different bearing stopper styles. And I don't know if they are compatible or not.


The axle tube has a race inside that is still OEM too. That should have been a clue when I picked up this mess, but I was just so damn glad to be shut of that place I whisked it onto the truck and gonzo!


I called AD back and was polite (trust me it was a struggle). Moe at the front counter apparently did NOT write down the bearing/seal/race replacement on the work order even though we spent about 5 minutes discussing it when I brought the diff in. So here's the outcome. Thulio says 'get the bearings/cups and seals and I'll press them on for you while you wait - no charge'. Yeah what a buddy. Oh you'll probably say "yeah, that's a good deal" until you hear what they zippo'd me with when I came to pick up my stuff. The original quote went from 450 to 687.00 and that was the lessor amount because they hadn't done some of the other work I asked for and corporate discount. The original bill they hit me with was 768.23!!! So, yeah good buddy, it doesn't bother me a bit you do it for free.

I bought all new races/bearings and oil seals from NAPA and checked them before I left to make sure I got the right parts. Looks good. Retail: 151.00 + tax. My cost 79.00 tax in. AD's buddy list cost to me if I got them to buy and install? ONLY 300.00!!! After this is done, I will be a strong advocate to not use them. I'm still choked they didn't catch this and do it right in the first place. Maybe just as well since their pricing is so outrageous. Remember they wanted to sell me a used set of 3:23's for ONLY 250?

 

Well this is the little hummer that took them 3 weeks to install. If I had the guts like Eddie did, I might have done this myself. But I don't and I also don't have the bearing presses either. The gears are 3:42 and the carrier was supplied by monzaz (Jim - JD Race). I bought it from him last year and was careful in asking him whether it would handle 3:42s. He's a rear specialist so he would know. Yes, it will work just fine.


I decided to turn the yoke several times to see how the gears meshed. The more I turned, the more clear it became that the mesh was smooth, and deep.


Another shot half way around the ring gear - pattern is consistent.


But what about the pinion? How's the pattern on it? Have a look; it appears to me the pinion is properly centered if you look at the mesh indicators.


The only thing I wasn't sure about was the back lash. Changing the yoke direction from forward to reverse has about 1/32 to 1/16" of play and a slight clunk. I read in Eddies build that .009 was the lash for this but I don't have the necessary callipers to measure it. Anyone who knows how to describe this to me in 'simple' terms? I would really appreciate it.

 

Allan,

One of your axle bearings have been changed, and that is the one with cone stuck in the housing. Make sure the cone did not spin in the housing and grove the housing. If it did grove the housing, then, you will need to hone out the housing where the race sits. All of the replacment bearings from the aftermarket are cone.

I managed to pick up several sets of original GM axle bearings because I have had this problem before.

 

I am also really interested in measure the whole backlash shindig. So i will be listening.

I will probably try to rebuild my own diff. Sounds fun, plus i like the challenge, soon as i buy a house and get my garage, that 350 rocket is coming out for a sweet rebuild!

 

Joe, both of these axles and bearings are original. They have never been out of the car. That's why I was asking about it. The housing has no damage whatsoever. I was more concerned that the new bearings need to have a matched set of retainers to keep them from moving?

 

Wow!, looking great Allan!
Speaking from the little experience I have with these things......with that rear end make sure your shock mounts are good

Ted

 

The cone/cup axle bearing,with the thick retainer,is not original.It was replaced sometime in the past.The straight bearing,with the thin ring retainer,is an original GM piece.
The drive pattern on your gears looks great,but I would like to see the coast pattern.The faint impressions suggest that the pattern is out towards the heel.If there is as much play as you mentioned,then there is too much backlash,which can also result in the coast pattern looking like that.Did they have an assortment of carrier shims to shim the carrier for the proper backlash,or did they try & make-do with the original carrier shims?

 

Let me do a little thinking on this Allan . It's been 12yrs since I use to work at Wisconsin Bearing company , but the super precision angular contact bearings should be matched . Those appear to me to be regular Timken cup and cone style bearing sets . The super precision matched sets from Torrington/Fafnir , Skf , Mrc , and I believe *** Brg Co. ( this is a legit bearing co name believe it or not ) are VERY expensive ! They are like $200 - $300 for a matched set ( depending on the size ) and they come in one box . So if you paid that much for that new bearing that you have in your hand , then you have a matched set . If not then they are not matched . Maybe caliper both sides of the shaft to see if they are the same and there is no wear . There are sleeves you can but to fix that , but I don't think you would want to do that on a rear axle given the load .....

Radial bearings ... take a up & down load

Timken cup & cone roller bearings .... mainly take a thrust load , and a little up & down load too .

Angular contact bearings .... are designed to take a up & down ( radial ) and thrust load in either direction . I cant remember the exact purpose in spherical bearings ... see i'm getting things mixed up with this , because it's been to many years since I worked with these . In my last 3yrs at Wisc Brg Co. ( which was bought out by Motion Industries ) I was in inside sales , and had to deal with this stuff more on a regular basis . It's a little foggy to me now .

 

oh , you're looking at the cup aspect of the bearing to be matched . I would think so of course . I was mainly refering to the bearing portion of it , and now that I think of it , I believe that would be the inner race ... so I think I was refering to the angular contact bearing style , and not the roller bearing style . sorry

 

I should have said "both are original as far as I know". Since then I've learned that the sealed bearings were the correct ones. I apologize to Joe for doubting him... I got the impression from AD that the cone/cup was the proper bearing. The ones they ordered in today are exactly the same as the OEM one I thought was wrong. Learned something new again!

Thanks Brian. Dad bought the car in 1974 with 40K miles on it. The replacement bearing must have been done before he bought it because we never had any differential or axle work done. The coast pattern is indeed more toward the heel, but it nicely centered in height. I asked Thulio to put a dial gauge on it and measure backlash. He has it at .009 but he also said that is normal for a set of used gears with around 35K miles. The amount of play after double checking appears to be around 1/32" max, which would be around .008? He used the original pinion and carrier shims as far as I know. At least he said he wanted to use them when I was talking to him last week. I'll take another picture tonight and will try to get less blur.

 

Okey dokey, where to start the free for all monkey 3 ring circus.....the long road I've been travelling has finally crested. From here on it looks pretty much like a gentle down hill path with shrinks at every bend to steer me back to the straight and narrow. The anxiety of this project is starting to diminish quite a bit. Don't get me wrong - there's still a LOT of work to do, but it should go fairly quickly and relatively easy. (Warning to others: Do NOT attempt this build on your own. The author of this thread is a certified nut case. Run, run far away before you catch his MAW disease).

This morning I buttoned up the cover on the diff and headed out to AD to get the cups/cones installed. (The parts I got yesterday from NAPA). Got there and unloaded everything. Thulio came and looked at the cups/cones. Took one out and checked against the axle tube. Duhhhhh, why didn't I do that???? Ah ha ha ha ha ha .............ha ha ha ha plop! That's me falling over dead after laughing my fool head off. I'm ready for the bin I tell ya!

In my small world, there's OEM parts and parts that don't fit. You pretty much know what the laughing means now. Still - Thulio says 'get me the parts this morning and it will be ready for you this afternoon - no charge for labor'. Called NAPA and discussed the parts. Nope - they don't have them. Called AD and they can get them. Oh yay! another bend over gang rape pricing too. 75.00/bearing. I hate being hostage to this crap. I really had not much choice so I said go ahead. Everything was ready at 2:30 so I went and picked it up. I double checked with Thulio about the shims and backlash. He used the original shims and the backlash is actually .010. I am pretty happy with the drive side gear mesh. Here are some more pics of the coast side of the gear Brian. Hope they show better. You're right they are closer to the toe. I have a year warranty on this work so you can bet your sweet bippy it's going to be out driving next year.




The new oil seals and bearings are installed


After putting the differential onto a set of stands, I decided to take out the snubbers. I expected them to put up a fight. Not so. They took less than 15 seconds per side. Slide a flatblade under the top and lever toward one side. That pops one of the flanges loose. Then just pull up on the rubber and it's out! The top rubber part was very hard and somewhat brittle. The flange was actually soft and pliable like it was only a couple years old? Anyway, the general rule of thumb with this car is: If it's hard to get out, it's easy to get in. Soooo, I just know the new snubbers will be a bear to get in


So now I still have to return about 75.00 worth of parts to NAPA. Good thing my wife went back to work today. I'm going to need more $$$ soon.

This weekend is supposed to be really nice - tomorrow a high of 10 and Sunday a high of 17 so I shouldn't have much trouble getting some work done, as long as I'm working in the sun. I'd like to get this differential to paint by Tuesday at the latest. Oh, and good news - the lower control arms fit easily into my blaster. So that will be one of the other agenda items for the weekend. Finish blasting CAs, install bushings, paint CA's. I'm starting to see a light at the end of the tunnel.

 

ok , I hope what I typed earlier about the bearings wasn't a complete waste of time . I also make the mistake of not listening to what others say to me I now have a different impression of things ..... Good Luck !

 

I love it when a plan comes together

 

Allan,

One thing that is hard to do is install used gears as you can not obtain a good pattern. The pattern is ok, and shouldn't make any noise. However, I would had tighten the back lash to .008 or .009, and may be had used a different pinion shim just to check the pattern. Again, that goes to the MAW.

The axles look great!

You need a MAW 455 thread.... I have one on the engine stand...

 

Thanks Joe. If there's any problems with the gearing I won't likely know till next year. Hope they aren't noisy. As Brian pointed out they are a little toe out on the coast side. I'm hoping they are as good as they can get given they are used. Yeah, I need a 455 thread... Nope. Maybe a 350 thread. But that will have to wait. I'm going to get this one done by my deadline and conclude another saga in my restoration of this car. Slowly but surely it's creeping toward my goal.

Keep posted on this Joe, you will like how the differential is going to turn out. Hopefully I'll have pics of the finished unit by Tuesday?? Hint: it may look a lot like your avatar...

I know this car is a $$$ pit, but both my wife and I are on board with it. And we both are smart enough to know we'll never get the $$ we put into it back. So I'm going to keep it and drive it till either it or myself are toast.

 

I look forward to seeing the diff. done. For my avatar, I toke that picture 10 years ago... Just happen to find the picture one day. I would stick to the MAW 455 thread...

I see your artic weather is setting in... I think Steve and I will suffer at 80 degrees.. Any way the Texas gang will suffer...

 

Allan, if a lot of us looked only at the money we spend on these cars, we would either never do this or we would go crazy. Best plan is the approach you have taken...know you'll have it for a long time and do what you want with it..within reason. No, you'll probably never get back the money you spend, but it also what keeps us active and young...I'm strating to sound like an old person with that comment. But you get the idea. Have fun, stay busy and learn new things. Sure beats a therapist's office.... although I'm sure there are some of ud who could still use one.
Brian

 

Can someone explain how to measure backlash????

I've been asking about this for months and noone has answered yet!!

Al, keep up the great work. Man i wish i had the determinantion that you do.

 

Tony You gave me deja vu . I had the same experience at times when I first joined here . Maybe you have to speak in bold letters . I STILL never got an answer why you can't use the pulleys and brackets that came on my 68 Toro 455 when I put it in my 72 CS , and as to why I have to swap them with the pulleys and brackets on my 350 . I looked that motor over and can't figure why it wouldn't work . Although I have my theories ...... ok back to the thread . sorry

 

Tony - PM sent

Bryan - different motors used different water pumps that were different 'heights' so different pulleys were needed to ensure belts stayed lined up properly. Review Tony's build on his cooling and you'll see the problem and solution. BTW, as far as I know, you can use the brackets and pulleys off your 68 Toro as long as you swap everything across to the 350.

 

Ouch! First day I don't wear steel toes working with this diff and it fell off the stand onto my left foot. Frickkkkka $%#&*@!!! that hurt. Toes will probably be sore for a little bit. Lesson to everyone - wear your safety gear; it's there for a reason.

Took some before pics so I'll have something to compare when it's all done. Then I spent 6 hours grinding, sanding, scraping till most of the surface rust and crud were off the surface. Still have another day to go to get the rest of it. Amazing how much time spent on this. Wish I wasn't so nit picking.

At the end of the day I took this pics that show some of the castings and part number of the differential.

The CE I don't know what that means. The stuff in the E is cast metal not crud so it's staying there.


I see this CFD casting on a lot of heavy parts that are created from sand molds. I think it's the name of the foundry that cast the parts, but not 100% sure. I've seen this on exhaust manifolds and heads as well.


I was thinking of grinding the slag metal around the pumpkin off because there are a lot of jagged edges and it really doesn't look good. I know that's a personal thing. Could leave it as is, but you know me... update tomorrow hopefully should be done the cleaning and sanding so I can get it to paint. Oh, to prevent dust from getting into the axles I stuffed them with a clean rag. I'll clean the diff cover in the blaster and see how it turns out. Not that I'm going to use it, just want to see how it turns out. The bushing ears got de-burred and lightly sanded inside. The bushings are a really tight fit; they'll need to be pressed in because they don't fit like that guy I saw do this on a DIY video. Curses!

Tuckered out so I'm calling it a day. Us old pharts need our rest cause we're not getting better looking staying up late.

 

Ouch , put a ice pack on your foot .... and I'm not getting any better looking whether I stay up late or not .

 

Sorry to hear abou tyour foot and the bearing snafu. Luckily, the bearings were fixed by the shop and you are still moving about, meaning no bones should be broke...
Glad to see the progress though!
What are you going to paint the diff with?

 

To measure ring and pinion backlash you will need a dial indicator and a fixture to mount it solidly to the diff housing at the diff cover gasket surface.
You put the put the "tip" of the indicator on the face of one of the ring gear teeth. You hold the pinion from turning securely and push the ring gear back and forth in either direction. The difference in readings on the dial indicator will be your "backlash"!
Many FACTORY service manuals will have complete instructions for building a differential.

 

Its looking good and glad to hear nothing is broken. Your corporate diff. is much heavier than than the "O" axle unit.

Allan, MAW get those frame supports....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-Bolt-12-b...sories&vxp=mtr

http://www.thepartsplaceinc.com/ocat..._Keyword=brace

 

Thanks Rob. I'm going to paint it with....special paint.... Not sure what you're asking. You mean brush or spray? It will be sprayed. If you meant POR? No.

Exactly. There is a comprehensive rebuild in the 72 CSM starting on 4B-1. Covers open and anti spins. Also gives speedo gears for different gears and tires.

Thanks Joe, as you know I found that out! Foots ok today just a little sore. re: frame supports - I bought a set from Eric Jensen a few years back - he gave me a really good price considering their condition. They were pretty rusty and pitted but cleaned up nice. I'm attaching a pic of how they turned out. Thanks for thinking of that though. I'd like to get it to the stage of some epoxy primer today. Winds are gusting to 35mph and the temp is pretty cool. Might have to wear sweats under my coveralls.

The support braces were somewhat ugly to start with. That crud on there is much deeper than it looks in the pics




I used what I had at the time, which was a grinder, wire wheels and sanders to clean up the surfaces to where I could prime and use some glazing putty to fill in the pits. This shows the pitting severity pretty nicely. There is no compromise to overall metal structure or integrity. Just doesn't look nice. Grinding the concave areas was a real PITA and left some deeper than wanted grind marks.


Once the primer was on, and the glazing putty smoothed I shot it with another coat of primer and then some gloss black. The 'smoothed' out pits are completely hidden now and these look almost new. I got a couple runs in the paint but I'm going to leave them. Not worth redoing just for that.
If I'd had the sandblaster when I did these it would have been faster and the finish would likely have been much smoother. They look much better than what I started with though.

 

[QUOTE=Allan R;462568]Winds are gusting to 35mph and the temp is pretty cool. Might have to wear sweats under my coveralls.

To much information about what your wearing under your coveralls . All joking aside , your doing a great job as usual . Those frame supports look like new . Keep it up !

 

The braces look great! I am also thinking that they were not painted from the factory, therefore, should be cast in color.

 

Not sure on this. I've seen them done in black, silver and ...rust...At this point in time I'm happy to leave them as is, Time will tell how crazy I get about the paint color. You'll have to stay tuned to find out what happens there bud!

 

The rust color is more popular...

 

That would be my car color . Don't copy me !

 

Busy doing cleaning and painting. Not easy to paint due to the size and weight. Using a new technique a fellow member provided for cool weather painting and it's working well. Pics in the next couple days soon as I'm finished. So far I like how it's turning out.