DavidH

Hi folks. Yes, I'm a new member and have a question (sorry) about a car I'm looking at to purchase. Two things stump me about cowl tag. First off, it's a F-85 Rallye 350 (supposedly), but it has a 01A build date, which I thought was too early for a R350 car. The first week of Jan 1970 has only 1 business day due to New Years Day being on Thurs. And I doubt they'd open up for 1 day, especially after holiday shut down? Second question, the interior trim code is 900, which I cannot find in my detailed Olds W Machine book. The car has the correct dashes for paint code and is a black bench seat M-21 4-speed car. Car has all correct W-45 equipment, but no build sheet found - yet. Any help here would be much appreciated!

DavidH

DavidH

One more thing, F-85 emblem is on fenders where I thought Cutlass should be instead on a R-350 car. Could this be a very early build? I should note to the car is in a small town east of Lansing, MI, so may be an early employee type release to get cars on street?? Just grasping for straws here...

35tac

David, I'll dive into this quoting some information from "Good Olds Day" by Mike Siedlik. Your Data Tag says:
On page 20, 33277 which is F-85 V8- 1020 units.
On page 21, 900 interior code in 33277 is black bench seat.

I have seen discussions about the paint code being - -.

Go to: DataTagDecoder.com and run your data tag thru for info. This should get a bunch of people jumping in. Looks like a great car if you are into yellow.
Good luck
Wayne

DavidH

Excellent Wayne, thanks for that info! That book is better than mine, but mine dates to the 90's when I had my 442. I'll try the data tag site too. Again, appreciate it. David

joe_padavano

I'm not familiar with that book, but your information matches that in the factory trim codes for 1970. 900 was only used on the F-85 Club Coupe (33277) to denote black bench seat interior. Note that F-85s got different interiors from Cutlii, thus the F-85-only trim code.

Of course the - - paint code is correct for a Rallye 350.

As for the 01A build date, GM absolutely would have reopened on Friday after the Thursday holiday, and may have even been running Saturday shifts at that time. The bigger issue, as the OP points out, is that is before the on-sale date for the Rallye 350 cars. The engineering documentation that spell out the unique Rallye 350 parts and stripes are dated Jan 6 and Jan 8, 1970. The dealer information bulletin that spells out the service parts is dated Feb 20, 1970. On the other hand, the special Rallye 350 order form shows a printing date of Nov 1969. Certainly Olds would have wanted to have some Rallye 350 cars built and on the way to dealers before the on-sale date.

Here is a thread from 2015 that talks about the Rallye 350 build dates and VIN range. Note that the thread talks about two other cars, one with a 01A build date and one with a 01C build date. Note this cowl tag from the other 01A car.

Allan R

Add on re: documentation.
This is a Lansing build, so the chances of finding the elusive build sheet are approximately 0. On the other hand, if the car interior is unmolested, there is a good chance to find the Fisher broadcast card(s)

Magna86

Thats a good looking 4spd Rallye Post! My F85 Rallye has Cutlass on the fenders and the F85 on the glove box door.

DavidH

Thank you Joe and Allan, excellent info here! This is what I was looking for. I'll add more info and pictures when I examine it again, and certainly if I end up buying it. David

DavidH

Thanks! I'm gonna ask if he added the F-85 on fenders when he painted it, otherwise it may have slipped thru on an early build. They are a rarely seen car and one I've always dug.

jharsh

From the pictures it looks like a nice car, and as others have said it is highly possible that a Rallye could have been built that early, My documented Rallye has a build date of 1C and I have seen several from 1A and 1B. The Fender script should definitely be Cutlass not F-85, and as you may or may not know the front passenger fender on this car is not the original (the inner seam should be straight not crinkled). The only true way to ID a Rallye is with some type of documentation.

DavidH

Alright, good to know that others are 1A cars, that was my main concern. You are correct, the fenders are not original and were replaced, so it's possible the F-85 was added by him. The rest of car is original metal. Frame is excellent. I do know the last couple decade history and it's a two owner car, so if it is a clone, it was done way back before they were $$$$$. I'm gonna go back and check block vin, trans vin, and look for Sebring Yellow in hidden areas of car. Thanks for this info/date confirmation. David

DavidH

I just noticed the body build sequence number on the cowl tag you posted is only 9 cars apart from one I'm looking at. Same car too basically, built same day likely. I looked at that other thread too, very interesting and goes to show there is no documented build start date for these cars. I'd bet 01A is the earliest certainly unless a verified earlier car pops up.

Allan R

You may not be aware, but the right fender is a replacement, not from 1970. Note the crumple ridges on the horizontal edge. Is it the same for the left side? Some of the aftermarket fenders are questionable as to quality, but the perforations on the side suggest they are GM. Those crumple ridges started appearing in 1971 cars as a safety feature for front end collisions.

DavidH

Yes, he was fourth coming on the fact he replaced both front fenders, due to lower rust. I saw the car 20 years ago prior to the re-paint and there was some present. He claimed them to be OEM GM, and likely post 70 from your post and a PM I received. Thanks Allan.

GEARMAN69

Also the January 1970 pic from Helen Early that has a slew of Rallye's built and outside Lansing waiting on stripes

https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...63&gid=1&pid=1

joe_padavano

This is very likely. The replacement front fenders were available from GM well into the 1980s (I bought a pair myself around 1985). They were all the dimpled 1971-72 style, which superceded the 1970 parts.

stevengerard

looks like a great car. Really nice condition. Are all the OIA parts under the hood intact still? If so for the right price it could be a no-brainer. Its great to have documentation but its not like docs would make this car a $200k car suddenly. If it sounds like a duck and walks like a duck and its not priced like caviar could be a decent buy for you.

DavidH

Yes, it appears like all OIA parts are intact, but I still need to check block/trans numbers and a few other checklist items. He's in no hurry and neither am I. It is a nice car no doubt, and one I'd love to own. And yeah, the decent price thing is yet to be determined as the BJ Auction and the like make ownership of these cars sometimes out of reach as people now think their car is worth a concours restoration type car, when in reality they're solid drivers. Rarity plays into it, but only so far.

anthonyP

Would this early build manual Rallye have the second version 350 engine with the 442 carburetor and cam?

DavidH

[QUOTE=anthonyP;1033505]Would this early build manual Rallye have the second version 350 engine with the 442 carburetor and cam?

The carb is on my checklist of items to examine/verify if original. As far as second version 350, that is new info to me?

1969w3155

The 350/310 hp Cutlass with the 4 speed had a cam revision around mid year. The engine didn't change, and I'm not sure that the carb did either. maybe jetting, not sure if carb stampings changed, hopefully someone with a good source can verify.

GEARMAN69

The cam , engine code and carb number did change and seems to be very parallel to just prior to rallye production