Boldsmobile

Sorry for the cooper typo copper!

Olds92

You saw the thread that was posted. You can see oldcutlass egging him on. Even with the comment F-85 made, does that give oldcutlass the right to threaten him, or delete the post about the threat and then ban him?????

J-(Chicago)

I also just want people to know, that this site is different.
Not better or worse, that's an opinion......

But this isn't a wild west saloon here where you can flip the table over, smash a bottle over someone's head and grab a hooker.

This site is geared differently than yellowbullet, or Realoldspower.com.
Yellowbullet is a free for all, and ROP is the best olds high performance site out there for going fast and cussing, hollering at each other, busting ***** and horse-playing.

When you come in here to Classicolds, please be polite and factual. That's what we're going for here.

If you want to drink a case of beer and go call someone an A-hole, go over to R.O.P., I'll come with you and bring the beer. Haha.

oldcutlass

I was not egging him on, I was trying to end it abrubtly. Look in hindsight, I could have chose some better words in my PM. I was trying to circumvent a big who ha like whats going on now. Josh was persistant in trolling a fight last night. He would not listen to reason. I felt there needed to be some cooling off for both of us.

J-(Chicago)

There definitely was egging-on, the whole darn thread stunk like eggs from you fellas.

and the answer to the question is yes. That is the way the current system is set up.

Speaking of egging on, to make an omelet, you have to break a few eggs. To have a successful website that isn't full of 5 pages of dribble before someone gets an answer to their question, you have to delete a bunch of B.S.

This situation is unique, and I feel that although it was an unfortunate one, I hope both parties learned to chill out a bit.

Sticks and stones. Words can only really hurt you if you let them get to you.
Pages and pages of arguments for members to shuffle through before they find something worthwhile, is something we are trying to avoid.

J-(Chicago)

Definitely. As I said, nobody in this argument is even a bad guy. Oldcutlass, you do a great job on here everyday. Maybe a little less good today, but 1 mistake is a drop in the bucket compared to all the people you try and help on here.

F-85 is a great friend of mine, and I've known him for years. He is not perfect either. No man is.
I do not enjoy having to even think about a situation someday where I would have to choose between his friendship, or 20,000 invisible forum members' free Oldsmobile playground. That's a big load of UNNECESSARY crap on my shoulders, and I'd appreciate it if everyone wouldn't force me into predicaments like these.

drop top olds

I will continue to stand by my original comment. IF a moderator is involved personally in an argument with another board member the moderator should not be able to wield the "ban". If punishment is delivered it should be from a party not involved in the fracas.

Again, my opinion, but the moderators have tended to try and protect one of their own. I don't post here much. I visit ROP and CO most of the time as a "guest". However I find it amusing that the perception from CO is we are more civilized than that rabble on ROP. My take is....naw about the same. I've seen urinating contests on both forums.

Carry on!

wr1970

X2 Plain and simple abuse of power by a moderator other mods saying nothing was done wrong by our {oldscutlass moderator} lets just forget it happened and you guys move on. No doubt in my opinion a wrong was was done to F85 and covered up.Then after several members called foul the truth starts to appear.Now the moderators still will not accept that F85 was not wrong. Is this classic olds or moderator olds and you will be banned suspended if talk about leaving a oldsmobile olds powered!! The threat was made carried out. The post were deleted to make oldscutlass the good guy. If anyone needs a talking to it is the moderator and that is my opinion like it or not.Done with this thread as i am sure the moderators have already ruled members opinion don't count if a moderator is doing wrong.Good night moderators thanks for letting everyone know where they stand.I have
five Oldsmobiles all oldspowered. I also have a dodge with a chevy in it!!!!

oldstata

This would be good for future situation's alittle late now
But as John has pointed out he was trying to interven as these steps were happing

Olds92

What it all comes down to is that F-85 was not banned for any disagreement. But for posting that he was threatened via PM by a moderator. AGAIN here is his post.


"Well i just got a PM from one of our moderators. (oldcutlass) We had a disagreement in a thread and now he sent me a threatening PM. This is his PM to me.

"This is a warning to you, do not start this argument, you will lose"


Im not sure how to feel about it. But i wanted to make everyone aware of what is going on. Im not going to play games and PM him back and forth. I thought it would be best to show what kind of guy he really is. Basically what he is saying is. If i speak my opinion and he disagrees then he is going to kick me off the site.

I feel like i should be able to have an opinion. Just because he doesnt agree with me doesnt mean he can control my posts or kick me off this site. I would like to see how other member feel about this. Anyone that knows me knows im a stand up guy. I am an open book with nothing to hide. Ill leave it all out in the open."

66-3X2 442

I totally agree with you assessments of the various sites. I come here and be civil(most of the time)or go to ROP and call somebody out. I will say that no matter what anybody says to me I will never go to a mod for help,never. If I dish it,I'll take it.

Olds92

AGAIN he was banned for posting a thread showing the threat by a moderator. As of an hour ago he is still banned. Did oldcutlass get an infraction for his actions, or banned for his actions? Why is this getting swept under the rug?

Olds92

You banned him not for the disagreement, but for posting on the forum that you threatened him Via PM. Dont twist it. You where in the wrong and you cant even admit it.

J-(Chicago)

Well, I hope I have displayed a shred of competence. A lousy day here or there in a 10 year run of me being on these Oldsmobile forums, is a pretty good record considering the odds stacked. It is near impossible to keep 20,000 people happy, polite,and smiling every hour of every day. This website is hardly in shambles, and you folks help make it the great place it is. It is also possible for us to hurt it too.

J-(Chicago)

I can lift the ban if he likes, but it seems you are still out for blood here.
Would lifting the ban be a wise decision or a horrible one? Please let me know what to expect here. I don't want to see locked horns again.

I haven't seen anyone admit they were wrong on either side yet, there is only me playing daddy and asking people to behave if I take them out of time out.

What would you like to see happen, other than letting it go and going on with both of their lives older and wiser?

Is the both of their public humiliation not enough?

Olds92

Can someone please give me a direct answer?

z11375ss

You're making a lot of sense J. The mods have a job not many want. They do the best they can. It's a lot of work, that's why I wouldn't want the job. I come on this site for the explicit reason people are polite. I've had my bad days too. One I can remember should have had me suspended at least. One thing I have recently learned is to let things go. It's easier on everyone. As far as apologies go, the bigger man always admits he made a mistake first.

Olds92

Well Jeremy, Josh is still banned and oldcutlass still has not been held accountable for his actions.

So Josh gets banned for posting the threat made to him.
1- Do you think that was right?

2- Do you think that it is how a moderator should handle himself?

3- Do you think its ok for a moderator to delete threads and posts to cover his tracks?

4- Do you think the moderator in this situation should be held accountable for his actions?


Can you please answer these questions

Yes your right i dont see either one admitting any fault here. One of them has made many posts on this thread and has many chances to do so. The other is BANNED and cannot post. You do the math.

z11375ss

The ban should be lifted IMO. If the back and forth continues they both need to go.

Diego

I really shouldn't get involved, but this is what I'm gonna say after reading the first and last page:

Moderator: Your job is to wield a firm but objective hand on this forum. None of us are trained to be a moderator - it's a learn-as-you-go process. Use this opportunity to move forward and be a better moderator.

What to do about the banned guy: Give him a week-long vacation, not a full-on ban. Allow the site to move forward, and he can return in a week and catch the current wave of discussions that are going on.

So what's next? Lock this thread so that the harmony of the site isn't disrupted any more.

J-(Chicago)

Correct, but nobody has been hurt, or had anything tangible stolen from them. 3 days in imaginary jail in the comfort of your own home is pretty easy time.

That is not the sole reason the way I see it. He initiated a series of events which led to that escalated situation. He is my good friend, and I'm having a hard time saying he was being a jerk, but he was being a jerk. The poor guy was minding his own business talking about his car when Josh marched right in, questioned him, and then insulted him. I've been guilty of being a jerk before too. It's no big deal, I just admit it, apologize, and wake up better the next day.

I think it was the wrong call, it was a weak foundation to stand on for banning someone.

I think it was unprofessional, but keep in mind the man was just insulted for no apparent reason. Go back and read it. The moderator could have had thicker skin I suppose.

I do not.

There is nothing to account for, he is helping on a volunteer basis. I suppose he could be banned for 3 days as well, but that won't change what happened.
I don't think anyone here feels good. I didn't do anything wrong and I feel like crap about it.

I can't hold a gun to anyone's head and make them say anything, they have to look within themselves to reach that mark.

J-(Chicago)

Just to further prove I'm being 100% fair and neutral here in my judgements I have just lifted the ban halfway through the 3 day ban period.

By the time we finish this debate, he probably would have been back anyway.
Carry on men, and show some good sportsmanship.

Koda

Ok, so what do we do about repairing the breach of trust the mod's abuse created? How do we know he will not do this again?

Diego

C'mon - the mod is a volunteer, not the school principal. If there is abuse, people will leave this site. It's not like there's Constitutional issues going on here. Give him the opportunity to learn from this and move forward.

J-(Chicago)

In my opinion, both men should just come right out and apologize not only to each other, but to the forum members as well, and we should give them the benefit of the doubt because we and them are all good people.

Pride may hinder that scenario. I'm not sure what the answer is, Koda. I do know one thing though, It's very difficult to get arrested and thrown in jail if you consistently do the right thing. And on the other side of that coin, if you are an authority figure, being reasonable, tolerant and forgiving goes a longer way for public morale than stomping people's heads in.

Some people are incapable of reason, which makes these ideas impossible, but I Don't believe that is the case in this situation.
We have 2 good men here, capable of clout, reason, and understanding, that momentarily lost sight of it.
As I said, the only thing that worries me now is pride. 2 men that most likely will never see each other's faces in their lifetime should easily be able to apologize and admit their mistakes. This Isn't a village gallows display, it's the internet, and we all have lives to go back to and enjoy. I'm tired, but this mess has effectively ruined my evening that I donate for the good of the website.

J-(Chicago)

On a lighter and funnier note, Chicago is known as the windy city for their long winded politicians. Good thing this laptop has a keyboard instead of a microphone.

rustyroger

A sad day for "classicoldsmobile.com".


This strikes me as ridiculous as the Hatfields vs McCoys, the War Of Jenkins Ear, or even the Dreyfuss Affair.


Two people had radically opposing views, and instead of agreeing to disagree it has escalated into the busiest and most vitriolic thread I have come across on this forum.
We have calls for moderators to step down, people threatening to leave, and most of it based on poor information, how many of us know the WHOLE story with ALL the facts at our disposal?.


I happen to own a non Olds powered Oldsmobile. It left the factory with a Buick V6 under the hood. But it left an Oldsmobile factory, was sold at an Oldsmobile dealership, and is badged as an Oldsmobile. I would have to radically alter my car to get it to run with an Olds engine.
I know that isn't the same as putting another engine in an originally Olds powered Oldsmobile, but if Oldsmobile can do it, why can't anyone else?.


This thread seems to be threatening the whole future of this forum in a bad way. It would be a real shame if the site was to split up or shed numbers of knowledgeable helpful members because of it.
I appeal to both parties; Swallow your pride, kiss and make up, shake hands although you'd like to punch each others lights out, go and have a sulk if you like.
But please get over it and come back with this overblown spat consigned to forgotten history.


Roger.

A442DUDE

So any difference of opinion from a moderator is disrespectful and with malice? I think like said above relax and RESPECT someone has a different view of the world or Oldsmobiles in general and not not act so heavy handed!

Run to Rund

When there is a conflict of interest, or even the appearance of such, a person in power should recuse him/herself. Abuse of power, or the appearance of such, is destructive to the goals of an organization. Should these principles not be part of the "user conduct we all agreed to?" Should not moderators have a clear pathway to get guidance from other moderators, to make it easier for them to do a good, impartial job?

f-85

Well im back. The ban only lasted a day! I want to thank all of you who have stood up for what you believe is right! Honestly i didnt expect 30-40 people to come to my defense, and that really touched me! You are all friends of mine now. The only reason i am back today is because of the support of all of you.

Truthfully it was nothing about me personally, but about the clear abuse of power by this moderator. I have seen it before here with him. I hope that all of this does something to help make this community a better place for all.

Here is the real story for all to see from my side. Yes i have been warned before to not get into discussions with anyone about a chevy motor in an Olds. Was i wrong for doing it? In my opinion, NO! Yes i might have crossed the line when i said "he only bought a Cutlass because he couldnt afford a chevelle" Are those my feelings, YES. Yes i might have been wrong for me to openly on the forum say "i dont even know how you became a moderator" But again those where my feelings and i STRONGLY believe in them! But it does still not give this moderator the right to threaten me by PM. He could have handled it differently. But i also think i did the right thing by posting his threat to the open forum to show what kind of person he really is, instead of arguing through PMs and saying something he could use against me to try to get me kicked off this site. Then he deleted my post only to try to cover it up, and then gave me an infraction because of it. He probably didnt expect me to not back down and when his deleting of my thread didnt work he then banned me. That was a clear abuse of power.

Now i was banned for a day and have 2 more infractions to add to my list. And this abusive moderator still is here as a moderator. Honestly i think he should either be a man and step down as a moderator, if not the super mod should revoke his moderation position. I truly think that is the best recourse for this situation. I think it would really help all of us move forward and make this website a better place.

f-85

These are my true feelings!

allyolds68

Josh,

I'm glad your back but now let it go. Your point has been taken and it will result in things being handled differently whether the Mods admit to that or not.

This site is sympathetic to the "Chevy in and Olds" crowd and you're not going to change that.

f-85

Hey Mike


Thanks, and thanks for your support! Since my ban i wasnt able to come on this thread and tell my true feelings, and give my side of the story. Thats all i wanted to do. This isnt just about me. or chevy in an olds. (i gave up that fight long ago). Its about the moderator and his abuse of power.

Oldsguy

Well, I should not have been out yesterday as it seems I have missed a lot. Too bad because it is always harder to figure out what went wrong after the fact.

f-85 glad to see you back, if your ban had not been lifted I would have done so.

I support all our moderators, as was mentioned, they are volunteers and do the best that they can. I do not believe that making an error in judgement qualifies for removal from duty, we need all our mods and they do a worthy job of it most of the time. We can all learn from this situation, COOL DOWN.

gearheads78

Some of us know you were here all along posting in this thread.

Koda

Them IPs are sneaky things.

barnfind

First, I did not know the position of mod on CO is a purely volunteer non paid position. Thanks to all of them for doing the job most wouldnt want to do. In the short time Ive been here I am amazed this place runs as smooth as it does (many sites are chaos). I like CO as many talk cars and the drama is minimized.
I harbor nothing towards either side, in fact I see Eric helping many people quickly and constructivly. Moderator is a position of power (paid or not). I have never spoken to F-85. There are other threads that have infractions and most are swept under the rug or the thread is left alone with nothing happens to either side. Everyone has bad days, and sometimes should just walk away from the keyboard. What Ive read in the action taken thread is no worse than other threads but this one was elevated to a 3 day cool off period. Again, I have no problem with that (am glad to see F-85 is back on) just the why of it, and why only one side..
OK, that being said, If Im having a bad day, and a Mod is having a bad day, and we get into a heated discussion. I get the boot from the mod I'm have a heated debate with. How is that objective? Is the person doing the kicking off of the site truly in an objective state of mind or are they emotionally wound up? Both parties share in the blame and fault for not walking away from the keyboard (at least for awhile). True the issue is handled as there's no more heated debate at the moment, but it leaves a poor perception from other members causing damage. This debate is on all car sites of differing manufacturers, it doesnt change or go away, nor will heated debates. Inconsistancey drew member attention to the thread. What can change is how its dealt with. Im going to go work on my car now. JMO

JPMDaddy

someone needs to close this thread

oldstata

x2

f-85

Thanks Dan. Honestly i feel like he is automatically going to be biased against hard core olds guys because he is not, and has a chevy in his Oldsmobile. He has shown it many times over. A moderator should be neutral to all, and not abuse his powers. Thats just my feelings and my opinion. Thanks for looking at this with an open mind.