Cincinnati Rick

Hey VikingBlue, did you get this resolved yet? Curious to know what it was.

Rick

rjohnson442

You said this is a sub-panel correct? Did the same guy wire up the sub-panel also? I have a feeling he has the neutral and ground bonded at the sub panel which in turn feeds back to the main panel. This will make the breaker not trip on the sub panel and can actually turn your ground wire into a neutral. Do you have a ground rod for the sub-panel? Add in some GFI's to the sub-panel and I think this electrician is in way over his head.

Cincinnati Rick

The circuit breakers would still function as they normally would even if the grounded conductor (GC or neutral) and the equipment grounding conductor (EGC or ground wire) were tied together. The EGC, and the GC are required to be separate when they leave the main service disconnect point. This is to prevent current flow on the EGC. If the sub panel is installed in the same structure as the main service disconnect, then no separate grounding electrode (GE)is required..i.e ground rod, water piping, rebar etc. You simply run the un-grounded conductors (hot conductors), GC and the EGC all in the same conduit or feeder cable. ( Metallic conduit is also an acceptable EGC) The GC and the EGC would be terminated separetly in the sub panel. This holds true if the sub panel is located in a separate structure if the two structures share common metallic piping or any other conductive paths. If the two structures do not share any conductive paths between them, then all GE's available in the separate building would get bonded together and terminated with the GC. This would include metal underground water pipe, concrete encased electrode, ground ring and ground rods. You can use any one of these for the grounding electrode....doesn't have to be a ground rod...

I've never experienced a breaker malfunctioning due to the neutral and the grounding conductor being tied together. Then again, I don't claim to have seen it all!

I hope Viking Blue gives us an update soon. This kind of stuff drives me crazy.

Rick

MDchanic

I'm not up to date on these fancy arc-sensing breakers, but, in general, a breaker (or a fuse) will trip if the current through it passes a specific threshold for a specific amount of time.

The status of the ground and neutral wires should be irrelevant, as all of the current from all of the circuits in the box is passing through the same neutral (and/or ground, if something's not quite right), which is not connected to the breaker, while all of the current of this one circuit IS passing through this one breaker, so I agree with you completely.

- Eric

Cincinnati Rick

I know this is a car forum but I hate to see misinformation being posted anywhere. Tends to get people excited when it isn't necessary

I'm envious of you Eric, you obviously know cars AND a thing or two about electric. Me on the other hand just knows electric, but I'm learning

Rick

oldcutlass

Neutral and ground are basically the same potential and are connected together at the distribution box.

rjohnson442

That why I believe he has a hot mixed up with a neutral on that line and the breaker wont work at all then feeding from the main panel. If everything else works fine in the sub panel but that run, something got wired wrong along the way.

MDchanic

No, it doesn't matter whether one wire was "mixed up."

One wire will be the "hot" and one will be the "neutral," no matter what colors they are.

Putting the breaker in series with either wire will achieve the same result from an electrical perspective, though wiring it the wrong way will cause GFIs to not function correctly and increase the risk of electric shock (hot box, hot conduit, etc.).

If the hot were mistaken for the neutral and connected to the ground on the bus, then you would have a short circuit and the main breaker of the box or the service would blow.

- Eric

oldcutlass

And if the individual circuit had a "mixed up" (shorted load wire to ground) then the breaker would trip with or without a load.

Cincinnati Rick

Yes, only at the MAIN disconnect, seperatetly derived system or sub panel in a standalone structure with no conductive pathways.

If you are referring to reverse polarity, then the breaker would still trip when overloaded or when shorted out. It would also still provide power to the load with no problem as long as the load was not polarity sensitive. I still believe there is a bad connection either at the breaker or along the circuit path that is causing the opener to start and stop. A loose connection will sometimes open under load causing whatever it is powering to stop working.

Bottom line is we didn't get all the questions answered so we could narrow it down to what the problem could ultimately be. I'm sure a number of us could have had this fixed in an hour or less. Hopefully it is already fixed and Viking Blue is too busy working in his new shop to tell us.

Rick

Cincinnati Rick

Yup, and if the electrician couldn't figure that out then I would definitely show him the door.

Rick