VikingBlue

A licensed electrician did new wiring for my garage, but has pretty much given up on this issue, suggesting the problem must be with my garage door opener.

The electric garage door opener plugs into an outlet right behind it on my garage ceiling. The outlet is wired to the garage sub panel with a 15a breaker.

Every time the garage opener motor runs the breaker fails after a few seconds..it doesn't trip, it just fails so the door stops halfway. The electrician has replaced the breaker three times each with the same result. Breaker fails and no power to the outlet and garage door opener.

But when I connect the opener plug with an extension cord to any of the other outlets in the garage with lines into different 15a breakers in the panel the opener never loses power and always works fine.

That suggests to me that it's not the opener motor...but what about this causes the breaker for that line to fail repeatedly and cut off power ?

oldcutlass

I don't understand the breaker failing description. How do you reset the circuit for it to work again? If its working on another circuit then I would assume the original circuit has something else on it causing it to overload. It could also be a loose connection somewhere causing heat expansion and thus breaking the circuit. When the load is removed it contracts and makes contact.

RROLDSX

If it works with an extension cord there is something wrong with the outlet or the feed to the outlet.

RandyS

I've really not heard of a breaker failing without tripping. When a breaker fails, it is usually due to repeated trips, or repeatedly being pushed just to it's limit. Is that outlet new? If it was fine before he did the work, it is something he did.

VikingBlue

Eric and Randy...it can't be reset and made to work again. Breaker replaced a few times, and each time power is restored but just long enough to open or close the door halfway or a little more. There's no other load on this line or any others in the garage...this line goes dead until breaker is replaced but the opener works fine with an extension cord to any other outlet and line to a different 15a breaker

MDchanic

Your electrician did something wrong, and he has no idea what he did, because he is an idiot.

You paid him to run a working line for your garage door, and he can't seem to do that.

I wouldn't trust him to install a light bulb at this point, so I would recommend changing the outlet yourself, to a new high quality one, and if that doesn't fix it, replace the whole run from the box to the outlet (may as well use 12ga wire and a 20A outlet while you're at it).

I'm sure I could fix this if I were there, but I don't think I can troubleshoot it long distance.

You'll get it.

- Eric

RROLDSX

Breaker or outlet is installed incorrectly or there is a short in the line. Could be a cheap outlet. Hard to tell without being there but that is mybet. Is this outlet GFI?

RROLDSX

I agree with Eric, new electrician.

oldcutlass

Turn the main power off first and try swapping wires with an adjacent breaker.

VikingBlue

The outlet on the ceiling not gfi if I recall. I don't think the guy is an idiot just hard to pinpoint the problem.

CRUZN 66

X2 - Invest in one of these testers to check the outlet the opener is plugged into.... Although, I would have thought your electrician would have done this for you....

http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/p...E1inYhPj&ven2=,

VikingBlue

With a new breaker the outlet tests fine until the opener motor runs for a few seconds...which again causes the breaker to fail without tripping.

the original and 3 replacement breakers..same result. Power until garage opener runs for a few seconds until the breaker fails

1970cs

Has your electrician check for full load amps?

Pat

VikingBlue

md ... I made a mistake in explaining. not 15a like I said at first but Yes actually 20a same as the other breakers which work fine with extension cord to opener. And the ceiling outlet is not gfi. The other outlets are about 36 inches off the ground and Are gfi if If I recall.

RandyS

There is a chance that he has gotten a batch of faulty breakers. I don't know of any way that 3-4 good breakers could fail on the first try. They should trip if they are overloaded or shorted.

Cincinnati Rick

VB,
I'll try to help but need some additional info.

1-Is the door opener receptacle a dedicated circuit or is it shared with other receptacles or lighting outlets?
2-When the breaker "fails" did you try plugging anything other than the door opener in to the receptacle? Did it work?
3-Did the electrician megger or resistance test the circuit?
4-Did he check the neutral conductor for proper connection?
5-Does any other type of load i.e. drill, radio, circular saw etc. cause the breaker to "fail"

Since the operator works when plugged into a different source, then one would conclude the problem is not the opener. I'm leaning toward a bad connection somewhere between the load and the source. If it's not a dedicated circuit then a circuit tracer can be used to follow the routing of the circuit. If it's a dedicated circuit, it should be simple to check the connections.

I've been an electrician for 30 years with 25 years of designing and building electrical systems. People start getting off track when trouble shooting simple problems like this. It's usually something so simple that it gets overlooked.

You can call me to discuss if you'd like. Just don't ask me any car questions. I'm clueless!

Rick
513-383-9732

Cincinnati Rick

X 2
Probably the same odds of that happening that we all had of winning the last power ball lottery!

Rick

MDchanic

+1 to all, Rick.

There's pretty much nothing simpler than a dedicated electrical circuit.

Box, Breaker, Wire, Outlet.

Start at one end and work toward the other.

And, as I believe a previous poster asked, have you tried substituting a known working breaker for the ones that "fail"?
(And, no, I've never heard of "failures" like this either).

- Eric

cherokeepeople

i work on machines all over the state of iowa and carry one of these testers and you would be surprised at just how many times i have found problems in new or remodeled businesses with outlets wired wrong.whenever one of my machines is doing something stupid the first thing i do is check the outlet.

RROLDSX

Why do you have 20 amp breakers? Unless you have a special circuit rated for 20amp the standard breakers should be 15amp. Be careful with electrical, it is dangerous. I would get another guy in you can trust.

Cincinnati Rick

Huh?? I don't understand this statement.

Rick

cdrod

Viking, I'm not an electrician, but I am a general contractor and know a thing or two about electrical gremlins. Is it possible your door opener is downstream from the wall mounted GFI that you mentioned? GFIs and arc-fault breakers don't always play well with motors. The best solution (as recommended by MDchanic) is to run a dedicated circuit from the breaker box to the door opener. If that is not an option because of sheetrock or other interior fixtures, buy a circuit tracer from HomeDepot and trace the circuit from the box to the door opener and check the connections of every outlet/switch between the box and the opener. I've seen continuity failures from poor connections when using the push-in style outlets. A screw-type connection is always superior to the push-style especially with high current loads. Hope this helps.

RROLDSX

Rick:
I was commenting on the statement "md ... I made a mistake in explaining. not 15a like I said at first but Yes actually 20a same as the other breakers which work fine with extension cord to opener. And the ceiling outlet is not gfi. The other outlets are about 36 inches off the ground and Are gfi if If I recall." but I doubt the other breakers are 20 amp.

Rodney: I think you might have something there, which is why I asked if it was GFI'd.

Cincinnati Rick

I would have to assume the electrician ran 12 gauge wire to the receptacles in the garage which in turn could be fed from a 20 amp breaker.

.There are 15 and 20 amp circuits throughout every home. There's nothing standard about 15 amp circuits. They are typically installed in areas of the home where the loads are minimal but nothing in the electrical code says you have to install 15 amp circuits. Most people install 15 amp circuits to keep cost down and the wiring is easier to terminate. I've had customers request that all their receptacle and lighting circuits be installed in 12 gauge wire and on 20 amp breakers.


Rick

Cincinnati Rick

VB,
Ultimately the electrical contractor is responsible for getting the problem resolved. I wouldn't let him off the hook. The opener is not the cause so it has to be something he wired. If the electrician is not the owner of the company, then call the owner and tell him you want a qualified electrician to troubleshoot the problem. Just because someone is "licensed" doesn't mean they are qualified. He kinda showed his hand by replacing the breaker three times. I would have used a known good breaker in the panel and tried it again. If it "failed" I would have started troubleshooting the problem...not replaced the breaker again and again. This really is a simple problem so I hope you get it taken care of without too much pain. You should not even be put into the position of asking for suggestions on what it could be. Your electrician should be embarrassed. Geesh, I hope it's not a family member

Koda

Either something with the GFCI, or something is crazy with the neutral on that circuit.

Cincinnati Rick

I think this was a totally new install.The installer should know how the circuit was ran to the opener receptacle. This kind of crap really irritates me. Everyone that slings some Romex around thinks they're an electrician.

Rick

Cincinnati Rick

Either one of these could be the culprit. It would be nice to know if there's voltage on the load side of the breaker when it "fails". Checking voltage on the breaker termination screw would tell us a lot. If it has voltage then the problem is in the circuit. If it doesn't have voltage the problem is most likely where the breaker stabs on to the bus. The OP said this is fed from a sub panel. There might be a loose connection to one phase of the sub panel. All that should have been looked at by the electrician.

Rick

Railguy

I work on construction sites and wiring is getting cheaper all the time. I have saw that pulls alot of amps "I think that's how you say it".In a new house it will trip the breaker every time even if the receptacle is right beside the fuse box but if the house is 20 or 30 years old you can plug in were. Most electricians I run into know white wire goes here black wire goes here but have no idea how anything works.
Railguy

oldcutlass

Yeah, they wire stuff but not troubleshoot. Same problem with most of todays late model car mechanics.

Ozzie

Could you tell us EXACTLY what type of breaker is failing? GFCI? AFCI? A brand name and item number would be good.

MDchanic

Nicely put.

- Eric

oldcutlass

See post 9

cherokeepeople

thats what i was getting at with my post.

RROLDSX

If there is a GFI outlet in the circuit it could be installed incorrectly between the line side and the load side. Get your new electrician to check on that.

RandyS

That wouldn't kill a breaker.

oldcutlass

A gfi will not reset itself.

m371961

I also have seen the new arc fault breakers act up. They are sensitive. My neighbor had a new manufactured home with them. One of the breakers would trip when the breaker under it in the panel was turned on. The home rep came in and replaced them with standard breakers. As asked, what type breakers do you have?

MDchanic

Yes. And it wouldn't hurt to post a photo of your box. with the cover removed, and of one of the "bad" breakers.

- Eric

Cincinnati Rick

When the NEC adopted the codes that mandated the use of AFCI breakers it seemed to have caught the manufactures with their pants down. The first generation AFCI breakers were poorly designed and rushed to market. We are still replacing them without charge to our customers from years ago. Although not bullet proof, the newer AFCI breakers are a lot more reliable.

It sounds like your neighbor may have had the AFCI breaker and the adjacent breaker sharing a neutral. This would cause it to trip immediately.

Whoever replaced the AFCI breaker with a standard breaker has opened themselves up to a whole lot of liability should there ever be a fire caused by the non AFCI protected circuit. I've had customers ask me to replace them with standard breakers and I refuse. I've given depositions to lawyers in several different electric related lawsuits and it's not a fun thing to go through.

Rick