Electricians out there ? Breaker problems
#1
Electricians out there ? Breaker problems
A licensed electrician did new wiring for my garage, but has pretty much given up on this issue, suggesting the problem must be with my garage door opener.
The electric garage door opener plugs into an outlet right behind it on my garage ceiling. The outlet is wired to the garage sub panel with a 15a breaker.
Every time the garage opener motor runs the breaker fails after a few seconds..it doesn't trip, it just fails so the door stops halfway. The electrician has replaced the breaker three times each with the same result. Breaker fails and no power to the outlet and garage door opener.
But when I connect the opener plug with an extension cord to any of the other outlets in the garage with lines into different 15a breakers in the panel the opener never loses power and always works fine.
That suggests to me that it's not the opener motor...but what about this causes the breaker for that line to fail repeatedly and cut off power ?
The electric garage door opener plugs into an outlet right behind it on my garage ceiling. The outlet is wired to the garage sub panel with a 15a breaker.
Every time the garage opener motor runs the breaker fails after a few seconds..it doesn't trip, it just fails so the door stops halfway. The electrician has replaced the breaker three times each with the same result. Breaker fails and no power to the outlet and garage door opener.
But when I connect the opener plug with an extension cord to any of the other outlets in the garage with lines into different 15a breakers in the panel the opener never loses power and always works fine.
That suggests to me that it's not the opener motor...but what about this causes the breaker for that line to fail repeatedly and cut off power ?
#2
I don't understand the breaker failing description. How do you reset the circuit for it to work again? If its working on another circuit then I would assume the original circuit has something else on it causing it to overload. It could also be a loose connection somewhere causing heat expansion and thus breaking the circuit. When the load is removed it contracts and makes contact.
#4
I've really not heard of a breaker failing without tripping. When a breaker fails, it is usually due to repeated trips, or repeatedly being pushed just to it's limit. Is that outlet new? If it was fine before he did the work, it is something he did.
#5
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Eric and Randy...it can't be reset and made to work again. Breaker replaced a few times, and each time power is restored but just long enough to open or close the door halfway or a little more. There's no other load on this line or any others in the garage...this line goes dead until breaker is replaced but the opener works fine with an extension cord to any other outlet and line to a different 15a breaker
Last edited by VikingBlue; January 16th, 2016 at 03:18 PM.
#6
Your electrician did something wrong, and he has no idea what he did, because he is an idiot.
You paid him to run a working line for your garage door, and he can't seem to do that.
I wouldn't trust him to install a light bulb at this point, so I would recommend changing the outlet yourself, to a new high quality one, and if that doesn't fix it, replace the whole run from the box to the outlet (may as well use 12ga wire and a 20A outlet while you're at it).
I'm sure I could fix this if I were there, but I don't think I can troubleshoot it long distance.
You'll get it.
- Eric
You paid him to run a working line for your garage door, and he can't seem to do that.
I wouldn't trust him to install a light bulb at this point, so I would recommend changing the outlet yourself, to a new high quality one, and if that doesn't fix it, replace the whole run from the box to the outlet (may as well use 12ga wire and a 20A outlet while you're at it).
I'm sure I could fix this if I were there, but I don't think I can troubleshoot it long distance.
You'll get it.
- Eric
#11
http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/p...E1inYhPj&ven2=,
#12
With a new breaker the outlet tests fine until the opener motor runs for a few seconds...which again causes the breaker to fail without tripping.
the original and 3 replacement breakers..same result. Power until garage opener runs for a few seconds until the breaker fails
the original and 3 replacement breakers..same result. Power until garage opener runs for a few seconds until the breaker fails
#14
md ... I made a mistake in explaining. not 15a like I said at first but Yes actually 20a same as the other breakers which work fine with extension cord to opener. And the ceiling outlet is not gfi. The other outlets are about 36 inches off the ground and Are gfi if If I recall.
#15
There is a chance that he has gotten a batch of faulty breakers. I don't know of any way that 3-4 good breakers could fail on the first try. They should trip if they are overloaded or shorted.
#16
VB,
I'll try to help but need some additional info.
1-Is the door opener receptacle a dedicated circuit or is it shared with other receptacles or lighting outlets?
2-When the breaker "fails" did you try plugging anything other than the door opener in to the receptacle? Did it work?
3-Did the electrician megger or resistance test the circuit?
4-Did he check the neutral conductor for proper connection?
5-Does any other type of load i.e. drill, radio, circular saw etc. cause the breaker to "fail"
Since the operator works when plugged into a different source, then one would conclude the problem is not the opener. I'm leaning toward a bad connection somewhere between the load and the source. If it's not a dedicated circuit then a circuit tracer can be used to follow the routing of the circuit. If it's a dedicated circuit, it should be simple to check the connections.
I've been an electrician for 30 years with 25 years of designing and building electrical systems. People start getting off track when trouble shooting simple problems like this. It's usually something so simple that it gets overlooked.
You can call me to discuss if you'd like. Just don't ask me any car questions. I'm clueless!
Rick
513-383-9732
I'll try to help but need some additional info.
1-Is the door opener receptacle a dedicated circuit or is it shared with other receptacles or lighting outlets?
2-When the breaker "fails" did you try plugging anything other than the door opener in to the receptacle? Did it work?
3-Did the electrician megger or resistance test the circuit?
4-Did he check the neutral conductor for proper connection?
5-Does any other type of load i.e. drill, radio, circular saw etc. cause the breaker to "fail"
Since the operator works when plugged into a different source, then one would conclude the problem is not the opener. I'm leaning toward a bad connection somewhere between the load and the source. If it's not a dedicated circuit then a circuit tracer can be used to follow the routing of the circuit. If it's a dedicated circuit, it should be simple to check the connections.
I've been an electrician for 30 years with 25 years of designing and building electrical systems. People start getting off track when trouble shooting simple problems like this. It's usually something so simple that it gets overlooked.
You can call me to discuss if you'd like. Just don't ask me any car questions. I'm clueless!
Rick
513-383-9732
Last edited by Cincinnati Rick; January 16th, 2016 at 07:18 PM.
#17
Probably the same odds of that happening that we all had of winning the last power ball lottery!
Rick
#18
+1 to all, Rick.
There's pretty much nothing simpler than a dedicated electrical circuit.
Box, Breaker, Wire, Outlet.
Start at one end and work toward the other.
And, as I believe a previous poster asked, have you tried substituting a known working breaker for the ones that "fail"?
(And, no, I've never heard of "failures" like this either).
- Eric
There's pretty much nothing simpler than a dedicated electrical circuit.
Box, Breaker, Wire, Outlet.
Start at one end and work toward the other.
And, as I believe a previous poster asked, have you tried substituting a known working breaker for the ones that "fail"?
(And, no, I've never heard of "failures" like this either).
- Eric
#19
X2 - Invest in one of these testers to check the outlet the opener is plugged into.... Although, I would have thought your electrician would have done this for you....
http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/p...E1inYhPj&ven2=,
http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/p...E1inYhPj&ven2=,
#20
Why do you have 20 amp breakers? Unless you have a special circuit rated for 20amp the standard breakers should be 15amp. Be careful with electrical, it is dangerous. I would get another guy in you can trust.
#21
#22
md ... I made a mistake in explaining. not 15a like I said at first but Yes actually 20a same as the other breakers which work fine with extension cord to opener. And the ceiling outlet is not gfi. The other outlets are about 36 inches off the ground and Are gfi if If I recall.
#23
Rick:
I was commenting on the statement "md ... I made a mistake in explaining. not 15a like I said at first but Yes actually 20a same as the other breakers which work fine with extension cord to opener. And the ceiling outlet is not gfi. The other outlets are about 36 inches off the ground and Are gfi if If I recall." but I doubt the other breakers are 20 amp.
Rodney: I think you might have something there, which is why I asked if it was GFI'd.
I was commenting on the statement "md ... I made a mistake in explaining. not 15a like I said at first but Yes actually 20a same as the other breakers which work fine with extension cord to opener. And the ceiling outlet is not gfi. The other outlets are about 36 inches off the ground and Are gfi if If I recall." but I doubt the other breakers are 20 amp.
Rodney: I think you might have something there, which is why I asked if it was GFI'd.
#24
Rick:
I was commenting on the statement "md ... I made a mistake in explaining. not 15a like I said at first but Yes actually 20a same as the other breakers which work fine with extension cord to opener. And the ceiling outlet is not gfi. The other outlets are about 36 inches off the ground and Are gfi if If I recall." but I doubt the other breakers are 20 amp.
Rodney: I think you might have something there, which is why I asked if it was GFI'd.
I was commenting on the statement "md ... I made a mistake in explaining. not 15a like I said at first but Yes actually 20a same as the other breakers which work fine with extension cord to opener. And the ceiling outlet is not gfi. The other outlets are about 36 inches off the ground and Are gfi if If I recall." but I doubt the other breakers are 20 amp.
Rodney: I think you might have something there, which is why I asked if it was GFI'd.
.There are 15 and 20 amp circuits throughout every home. There's nothing standard about 15 amp circuits. They are typically installed in areas of the home where the loads are minimal but nothing in the electrical code says you have to install 15 amp circuits. Most people install 15 amp circuits to keep cost down and the wiring is easier to terminate. I've had customers request that all their receptacle and lighting circuits be installed in 12 gauge wire and on 20 amp breakers.
Rick
#25
Ultimately the electrical contractor is responsible for getting the problem resolved. I wouldn't let him off the hook. The opener is not the cause so it has to be something he wired. If the electrician is not the owner of the company, then call the owner and tell him you want a qualified electrician to troubleshoot the problem. Just because someone is "licensed" doesn't mean they are qualified. He kinda showed his hand by replacing the breaker three times. I would have used a known good breaker in the panel and tried it again. If it "failed" I would have started troubleshooting the problem...not replaced the breaker again and again. This really is a simple problem so I hope you get it taken care of without too much pain. You should not even be put into the position of asking for suggestions on what it could be. Your electrician should be embarrassed. Geesh, I hope it's not a family member
#27
Rick
#28
Rick
#29
I work on construction sites and wiring is getting cheaper all the time. I have saw that pulls alot of amps "I think that's how you say it".In a new house it will trip the breaker every time even if the receptacle is right beside the fuse box but if the house is 20 or 30 years old you can plug in were. Most electricians I run into know white wire goes here black wire goes here but have no idea how anything works.
Railguy
Railguy
#32
#36
#38
I also have seen the new arc fault breakers act up. They are sensitive. My neighbor had a new manufactured home with them. One of the breakers would trip when the breaker under it in the panel was turned on. The home rep came in and replaced them with standard breakers. As asked, what type breakers do you have?
#39
#40
I also have seen the new arc fault breakers act up. They are sensitive. My neighbor had a new manufactured home with them. One of the breakers would trip when the breaker under it in the panel was turned on. The home rep came in and replaced them with standard breakers. As asked, what type breakers do you have?
It sounds like your neighbor may have had the AFCI breaker and the adjacent breaker sharing a neutral. This would cause it to trip immediately.
Whoever replaced the AFCI breaker with a standard breaker has opened themselves up to a whole lot of liability should there ever be a fire caused by the non AFCI protected circuit. I've had customers ask me to replace them with standard breakers and I refuse. I've given depositions to lawyers in several different electric related lawsuits and it's not a fun thing to go through.
Rick
Last edited by Cincinnati Rick; January 18th, 2016 at 06:49 AM.