Damsel in Distress Carburetor Help
Thread Starter
Damsel in Distress
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 419
From: Valley Chic, Texas
@ oldcutlass I know that's what you said..I member to tell you the truth I don't think the county wkers know or the inspection stations..
But today another day wasted..I could of had my car in the shop getting that dog on carb or see what ever the issue is.
One thing I do know every since that dude adjust the carb Ive run out of gas 2 times or my fuel pump isn't wking
I checked the fuel filter, there's barely any gas in it..the tank is topped off car wont start and its stuck in on the side of the road in front of the neighbors house..Im gona have this sicker towed to a shop Monday morning and be done with it...
I think where the fuel pump is located I can change that..so I will tackle that tomorrow then I will have it dropped off to tune the carb right...
very frustrated right now..I don't like to wait for what I can do today....
But today another day wasted..I could of had my car in the shop getting that dog on carb or see what ever the issue is.
One thing I do know every since that dude adjust the carb Ive run out of gas 2 times or my fuel pump isn't wking
I checked the fuel filter, there's barely any gas in it..the tank is topped off car wont start and its stuck in on the side of the road in front of the neighbors house..Im gona have this sicker towed to a shop Monday morning and be done with it...
I think where the fuel pump is located I can change that..so I will tackle that tomorrow then I will have it dropped off to tune the carb right...
very frustrated right now..I don't like to wait for what I can do today....
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 7,286
A novelette by CBWitt
Carb:
Much of this has been noted already. I see the secondary air valve hanging open, then even when shut the needles hanger is still up…. Should not even be possible. There goes your fuel.
The carburetor is a carefully engineered group of oh 6 or 8 systems which, when working at its best, regardless of the engine’s speed or load, delivers “darn near the right” air/fuel mixture. Disconnecting or tying open/shut these linkages cannot possibly improve on a properly functioning version of that system. While it seems intimidating at first, like there are innumerable links and adjustments… there is in fact a finite number of them, and they can all be adjusted correctly. Contrary to what is seen here. Each part has only 1 or 2 or possibly three functions, so, with some study and a CSM, the mysteries can be understood.
Problem #1 is as set forth, your carb is NOT correct for your engine. The choke system is missing the actuating coil, which resides in its mating Buick intake. You have -no- actuating coil.
While you “can” theoretically make this carb behave on your engine, a better solution would be to get a proper Olds carb with the Hot Air choke your intake used to have- and convert it to electric. A properly functioning choke, which also runs the Fast Idle system, will improve the car’s driving experience in all ways.
I see a vacuum port connected from the carb front right side the intake. Seriously stupid move showing the carb was installed by an idiot. Kinked fuel line, rubber line, single clamps, inline fuel filter… ditto. The choke pulloff, gray/black plastic thing at the front of the carb, RH side, appears to be broken. That is what should be tested to see if it moves in when vacuum is applied, and holds vacuum. Or, at least, pulls in when the engine is running- even if it leaks some. Of course any leak is bad and contributes to poor behavior. The choke pulloff also allows the SLOW opening of the secondary air valve by way of that link rod at the top, RH side. If it is not working right, neither will that function. The throttle damper, LH side, fwd of the throttle lever, should abut the throttle lever when coming down to idle, and let it close gradually- it appears to have a broken off tip and therefore cannot do its job. Can lead to stalling upon release of throttle.
There is no gasket atop the carb, between carb and air cleaner. I have not seen an air cleaner either.
If you get the right type carb, with Hot Air Choke…
“The choke is not vacuum operated, but it does use vacuum. The choke operating spring in that year sits inside of a round housing on the side of the carburetor, attached to the choke operating rod internally. There is a small vacuum bleed into the spring chamber from the carburetor venturi, which pulls outside air in from within the air cleaner housing, at the back of the carb, through a tube to a well in the intake manifold that sits in the stream of the exhaust crossover, where it heats up, then into the choke spring chamber, where it heats the choke spring up, which pulls the choke open.”
======================.
Or, an electrical heater can relax that coiled spring - the “electric choke” referred to above, a good alternative since your heat tubes in the intake to the right of the carb are siliconed? shut. Technically, the relaxing of the coil ALLOWS the choke to open, it does not PULL it open. It is pulled open by airflow past the choke and the action of gravity on a weight which also serves as the Fast Idle cam. See the CSM. Every carb function is affected in some way, or effected, by/with vacuum. [you like that, yes?] So, vacuum is crucial and vacuum leaks are problematic.
PS proper dwell and timing will directly and dramatically affect…. The vacuum that the engine develops. Did we ever fix that?
“I don't think the misuse of a couple zip ties means the carb is ruined.”
“I don't see any reason to go with another carb.”
.===
It scares me to think of what may have been done elsewhere outside, AND INSIDE this carb, based on other “crapsmanship” seen on this poor car. It would be so much better to get a correctish carb and fix THAT, and maybe use this one to tear apart and LEARN on. Even if the tidbits are slightly different, the basic parts and their function will be the same. And, if you make a mistake on THIS carb, no big deal.
“he even fingered the spring looking and feeling”
.===
Ahem, yeah, let’s gloss over that tawdry bit of tomfoolery.
“It takes literally one minute to adjust the air valve return spring.”
.===
sure, the second time. The FIRST time, when you are learning the location, and tool size, and all that rot, might take as much as 5 minutes. PS when you bring that spring tight, so it closes the secondary air valve, it will take a lot more tightness if you just do that, esp. w/o lube on the spring… so, as you tighten the adjuster, tap on the carb top with say a plastic screwdriver handle to help jiggle the mechanism into proper position. Then secure it, then verify proper closing and opening.
“…she needs to replace the carb with a suitable one and replace the necessary manifold parts to make the choke work. I agree that she can temporarily wire the choke open until the suitable parts are found. The other suggestion of installing a manual choke is also an option, however it will need to be somewhat... engineered.”
.===
Rather than replace the manifold Hot Air stuff, go electric. Same result, less hassle. But you have to START with a carb that bears the correct Hot Air Choke system with the big ol’ 2-3 finger wide round housing on the RH side. The “engineered” term you almost got there is somewhat racist, so I will refrain from using it here, but “Jerry-Rigged” seems to suit. Rednecks of all flavors do shtuff like that. I consider it a practice to be avoided in favor of correcting the factory system, or something similar.
One COULD put a manual kit into the Hot Air choke housing, but why not move up to 1990’s technology instead of Farm Tractor technology? A properly functioning automatic choke is…. well… AUTOMATIC. Don’t waste that actual engineering, use it. Fix it right. It’s really easy.
PS I have a good 7043251 carb from a ’73 455 that would have all the features you need, and is not in bad shape. MIGHT be useable as-is. These carbs are not that hard to find. I also have used factory fuel lines, all steel, for pump to carb. Not good sellers, so the price is quite low.
Electrical / Lighting:
Aye, yi,yi…
The condenser or capacitor on the coil appears to not be mounted. If not, it cannot have any effect, electrically. The coil wire has a semi-rectal terminal. At least it’s not house wiring nuts. It’s “just” the ignition, right? You have a mishmash of various plug wires, like some have been replaced with whatever. Put that on the list.
Under the hood:
“any suggestions what that broken wire could be from?”
.===
Well, probably from that terminal over there with no wire in it. *sigh*
It appears to be a redundant or perhaps primary front sheetmetal ground. But, your battery is MISSING. That could be a problem. There should be a ground bare wire from aft end of RH head to the firewall [body]. I bet that is not there. This could lead to lighting problems. Things in the dash will try to ground thru the throttle cable, shifter linkage, brake lines, etc. Be sure this head to firewall gnd wire is present. If not, put one there. See CSM. We all have used spares. Dirt cheap/ free.
Meters:
“Which one do I use.. And what settings.and just touch inside of socket”
.===
gone over already
the 600 Volt one is probably not all that useful on the car. The yellow one, EXCEEDINGLY useful. Get a handy friend to show you the basics of checking for ohms [bad grounds] and Volts [bad wiring]. Youtube videos?
The bulb will not go in...and when it does...and I turn headlights on...the bulb get hot...burns out..
.===
The bulb should go right in then turn a bit CW and lock in place. If not, flip it 180 and try the other way around- since the pegs are staggered on the 1157 to discourage use of 1156 and incorrect insertion, you must have it the right way ‘round and in the right socket. Anything other than that needs to be fixed first. If you see spliced wires on your lights, look there first. Improper socket, improper wiring when installed [tail ckt to Stop filament…] and the like come to mind.
Look in the socket. If it has two contacts in there like
OO
Then it needs a matching two-contact 1157 bulb with two filaments for two functions- running lights and blinker. One contact, 1156 or similar mating 1-contact bulb. [note: inside the car there may be courtesy lamp sockets that have two contacts but use a 1-filament bulb.] There is a bulb section in your new… CSM.
I doubt that the bulb "burns out"
Unless you apply more than the 12V it is designed to operate on, it can come on and do what it does, or it can fail to illuminate due to a circuit failure, but using a 12V bulb on a 12V ckt cannot cause it to burn out. Unless it is faulty. Check any suspect bulb at the battery with a jumper test wire to verify that the bulb itself works with no circuit except your test wire.
Emergency brake:
there are only three flexible cables and one simple string cable, and a few bits and pieces. Should be around, oh, $100 for all the parts, new, to make that work right. Many of us have used parts like the tidbits - S shaped hooks, adjuster, etc. It's a bit of work with some secret tricks to getting the cables out but not too tough. For one trick, remember that if the part is on the way out, you can be rude to it. Break those dang tangs right off. Out she comes. Or break two and depress the 3rd with a tool.
Carb:
Much of this has been noted already. I see the secondary air valve hanging open, then even when shut the needles hanger is still up…. Should not even be possible. There goes your fuel.
The carburetor is a carefully engineered group of oh 6 or 8 systems which, when working at its best, regardless of the engine’s speed or load, delivers “darn near the right” air/fuel mixture. Disconnecting or tying open/shut these linkages cannot possibly improve on a properly functioning version of that system. While it seems intimidating at first, like there are innumerable links and adjustments… there is in fact a finite number of them, and they can all be adjusted correctly. Contrary to what is seen here. Each part has only 1 or 2 or possibly three functions, so, with some study and a CSM, the mysteries can be understood.
Problem #1 is as set forth, your carb is NOT correct for your engine. The choke system is missing the actuating coil, which resides in its mating Buick intake. You have -no- actuating coil.
While you “can” theoretically make this carb behave on your engine, a better solution would be to get a proper Olds carb with the Hot Air choke your intake used to have- and convert it to electric. A properly functioning choke, which also runs the Fast Idle system, will improve the car’s driving experience in all ways.
I see a vacuum port connected from the carb front right side the intake. Seriously stupid move showing the carb was installed by an idiot. Kinked fuel line, rubber line, single clamps, inline fuel filter… ditto. The choke pulloff, gray/black plastic thing at the front of the carb, RH side, appears to be broken. That is what should be tested to see if it moves in when vacuum is applied, and holds vacuum. Or, at least, pulls in when the engine is running- even if it leaks some. Of course any leak is bad and contributes to poor behavior. The choke pulloff also allows the SLOW opening of the secondary air valve by way of that link rod at the top, RH side. If it is not working right, neither will that function. The throttle damper, LH side, fwd of the throttle lever, should abut the throttle lever when coming down to idle, and let it close gradually- it appears to have a broken off tip and therefore cannot do its job. Can lead to stalling upon release of throttle.
There is no gasket atop the carb, between carb and air cleaner. I have not seen an air cleaner either.
If you get the right type carb, with Hot Air Choke…
“The choke is not vacuum operated, but it does use vacuum. The choke operating spring in that year sits inside of a round housing on the side of the carburetor, attached to the choke operating rod internally. There is a small vacuum bleed into the spring chamber from the carburetor venturi, which pulls outside air in from within the air cleaner housing, at the back of the carb, through a tube to a well in the intake manifold that sits in the stream of the exhaust crossover, where it heats up, then into the choke spring chamber, where it heats the choke spring up, which pulls the choke open.”
======================.
Or, an electrical heater can relax that coiled spring - the “electric choke” referred to above, a good alternative since your heat tubes in the intake to the right of the carb are siliconed? shut. Technically, the relaxing of the coil ALLOWS the choke to open, it does not PULL it open. It is pulled open by airflow past the choke and the action of gravity on a weight which also serves as the Fast Idle cam. See the CSM. Every carb function is affected in some way, or effected, by/with vacuum. [you like that, yes?] So, vacuum is crucial and vacuum leaks are problematic.
PS proper dwell and timing will directly and dramatically affect…. The vacuum that the engine develops. Did we ever fix that?
“I don't think the misuse of a couple zip ties means the carb is ruined.”
“I don't see any reason to go with another carb.”
.===
It scares me to think of what may have been done elsewhere outside, AND INSIDE this carb, based on other “crapsmanship” seen on this poor car. It would be so much better to get a correctish carb and fix THAT, and maybe use this one to tear apart and LEARN on. Even if the tidbits are slightly different, the basic parts and their function will be the same. And, if you make a mistake on THIS carb, no big deal.
“he even fingered the spring looking and feeling”
.===
Ahem, yeah, let’s gloss over that tawdry bit of tomfoolery.
“It takes literally one minute to adjust the air valve return spring.”
.===
sure, the second time. The FIRST time, when you are learning the location, and tool size, and all that rot, might take as much as 5 minutes. PS when you bring that spring tight, so it closes the secondary air valve, it will take a lot more tightness if you just do that, esp. w/o lube on the spring… so, as you tighten the adjuster, tap on the carb top with say a plastic screwdriver handle to help jiggle the mechanism into proper position. Then secure it, then verify proper closing and opening.
“…she needs to replace the carb with a suitable one and replace the necessary manifold parts to make the choke work. I agree that she can temporarily wire the choke open until the suitable parts are found. The other suggestion of installing a manual choke is also an option, however it will need to be somewhat... engineered.”
.===
Rather than replace the manifold Hot Air stuff, go electric. Same result, less hassle. But you have to START with a carb that bears the correct Hot Air Choke system with the big ol’ 2-3 finger wide round housing on the RH side. The “engineered” term you almost got there is somewhat racist, so I will refrain from using it here, but “Jerry-Rigged” seems to suit. Rednecks of all flavors do shtuff like that. I consider it a practice to be avoided in favor of correcting the factory system, or something similar.
One COULD put a manual kit into the Hot Air choke housing, but why not move up to 1990’s technology instead of Farm Tractor technology? A properly functioning automatic choke is…. well… AUTOMATIC. Don’t waste that actual engineering, use it. Fix it right. It’s really easy.
PS I have a good 7043251 carb from a ’73 455 that would have all the features you need, and is not in bad shape. MIGHT be useable as-is. These carbs are not that hard to find. I also have used factory fuel lines, all steel, for pump to carb. Not good sellers, so the price is quite low.
Electrical / Lighting:
Aye, yi,yi…
The condenser or capacitor on the coil appears to not be mounted. If not, it cannot have any effect, electrically. The coil wire has a semi-rectal terminal. At least it’s not house wiring nuts. It’s “just” the ignition, right? You have a mishmash of various plug wires, like some have been replaced with whatever. Put that on the list.
Under the hood:
“any suggestions what that broken wire could be from?”
.===
Well, probably from that terminal over there with no wire in it. *sigh*
It appears to be a redundant or perhaps primary front sheetmetal ground. But, your battery is MISSING. That could be a problem. There should be a ground bare wire from aft end of RH head to the firewall [body]. I bet that is not there. This could lead to lighting problems. Things in the dash will try to ground thru the throttle cable, shifter linkage, brake lines, etc. Be sure this head to firewall gnd wire is present. If not, put one there. See CSM. We all have used spares. Dirt cheap/ free.
Meters:
“Which one do I use.. And what settings.and just touch inside of socket”
.===
gone over already
the 600 Volt one is probably not all that useful on the car. The yellow one, EXCEEDINGLY useful. Get a handy friend to show you the basics of checking for ohms [bad grounds] and Volts [bad wiring]. Youtube videos?
The bulb will not go in...and when it does...and I turn headlights on...the bulb get hot...burns out..
.===
The bulb should go right in then turn a bit CW and lock in place. If not, flip it 180 and try the other way around- since the pegs are staggered on the 1157 to discourage use of 1156 and incorrect insertion, you must have it the right way ‘round and in the right socket. Anything other than that needs to be fixed first. If you see spliced wires on your lights, look there first. Improper socket, improper wiring when installed [tail ckt to Stop filament…] and the like come to mind.
Look in the socket. If it has two contacts in there like
OO
Then it needs a matching two-contact 1157 bulb with two filaments for two functions- running lights and blinker. One contact, 1156 or similar mating 1-contact bulb. [note: inside the car there may be courtesy lamp sockets that have two contacts but use a 1-filament bulb.] There is a bulb section in your new… CSM.
I doubt that the bulb "burns out"
Unless you apply more than the 12V it is designed to operate on, it can come on and do what it does, or it can fail to illuminate due to a circuit failure, but using a 12V bulb on a 12V ckt cannot cause it to burn out. Unless it is faulty. Check any suspect bulb at the battery with a jumper test wire to verify that the bulb itself works with no circuit except your test wire.
Emergency brake:
there are only three flexible cables and one simple string cable, and a few bits and pieces. Should be around, oh, $100 for all the parts, new, to make that work right. Many of us have used parts like the tidbits - S shaped hooks, adjuster, etc. It's a bit of work with some secret tricks to getting the cables out but not too tough. For one trick, remember that if the part is on the way out, you can be rude to it. Break those dang tangs right off. Out she comes. Or break two and depress the 3rd with a tool.
Last edited by Octania; Mar 28, 2015 at 02:52 PM.
Thread Starter
Damsel in Distress
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 419
From: Valley Chic, Texas
well the cutlass is parked on the side of the road...so depressed geez....cant find anyone to help me push up the road and into my driveway....sad sad sad...s
so I just called my road side assistance...so as it gets here..
I want to remove that dog on fuel pump...and replace that to start with...then I will start with the rest of tuning and adjusting from what you all are telling me..
Sometimes I just wanna cry..boo hooo hoooo....I need a BEER that's what I need
thanks Octania....feeling blue right now
so I just called my road side assistance...so as it gets here..
I want to remove that dog on fuel pump...and replace that to start with...then I will start with the rest of tuning and adjusting from what you all are telling me..
Sometimes I just wanna cry..boo hooo hoooo....I need a BEER that's what I need
thanks Octania....feeling blue right now
Thread Starter
Damsel in Distress
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 419
From: Valley Chic, Texas
Up early, coffee check...attitude...better....its sunday wanna take Damnsel n Distress to the park...
Got extra fuel line hoses....
didn't get to finish last night to many interruptions..mom can I have a ride here...you know what I mean...ughhhh...so shes asleep should be able to get it done
Had a hard time pushing it back n but here I go again.....oh I better light some sage
Got extra fuel line hoses....
didn't get to finish last night to many interruptions..mom can I have a ride here...you know what I mean...ughhhh...so shes asleep should be able to get it done
Had a hard time pushing it back n but here I go again.....oh I better light some sage
Administrator
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 42,514
From: Poteau, Ok
You may have to rotate the engine a little to take the pressure off the arm because the cam that lifts it is in the high position.
DSC_0186.jpg
DSC_0186.jpg
Thread Starter
Damsel in Distress
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 419
From: Valley Chic, Texas
Great thanks for that...last night I was tired and frustrated.
this morning I lifted the car so I could get under to push up...my left rotor cup on shoulder is no good cant use to much pressure So once I got under I was able to push it in..Had a pin hole on hose to fuel filter, also once I replace fuel pump OH YEAH lots o gas now that it was leaking from the bottom gasket, so since I was there I replaced the gasket...all is good again...for now gona take DnD to the park later....
It was the fuel pump making it run crappy, sound choppy....DnD starts right up 1 pump...he goes Varrroommmmm Varrrommmmm sound of music again....
this morning I lifted the car so I could get under to push up...my left rotor cup on shoulder is no good cant use to much pressure So once I got under I was able to push it in..Had a pin hole on hose to fuel filter, also once I replace fuel pump OH YEAH lots o gas now that it was leaking from the bottom gasket, so since I was there I replaced the gasket...all is good again...for now gona take DnD to the park later....
It was the fuel pump making it run crappy, sound choppy....DnD starts right up 1 pump...he goes Varrroommmmm Varrrommmmm sound of music again....
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 7,286
"I checked the fuel filter, there's barely any gas in it.."
.===
It is a common misconception that the visible inline filter should be full of fuel with no air. As long as some comes in and some goes out, it is OK for air to be seen within the fuel filter.
"I think where the fuel pump is located I can change that....."
=======
I would have advised testing teh pump before changing it, but putting a new one in pretty well assures that it will not be a problem now. Ignoring that feature of some new parts where they do not work even though brand new.
Sounds like you are on the way to having a reliable vehicle.
Dwell
Timing and associated engine vacuum reading.
undo that idiot vacuum line from carb to intake. That is at best idiocy with no effect, or, if connected to an unfavorable port on the carb, the manifold is sucking all your idle fuel out of the idle circuit and ports and dumping it into that one intake runner.
Body Ground wire to engine at rear RH side.
then some lighting and wiring issues.
I am afraid to ask if you have looked at the brakes at all? At least see if the fluid is clearish or mud?
.===
It is a common misconception that the visible inline filter should be full of fuel with no air. As long as some comes in and some goes out, it is OK for air to be seen within the fuel filter.
"I think where the fuel pump is located I can change that....."
=======
I would have advised testing teh pump before changing it, but putting a new one in pretty well assures that it will not be a problem now. Ignoring that feature of some new parts where they do not work even though brand new.
Sounds like you are on the way to having a reliable vehicle.
Dwell
Timing and associated engine vacuum reading.
undo that idiot vacuum line from carb to intake. That is at best idiocy with no effect, or, if connected to an unfavorable port on the carb, the manifold is sucking all your idle fuel out of the idle circuit and ports and dumping it into that one intake runner.
Body Ground wire to engine at rear RH side.
then some lighting and wiring issues.
I am afraid to ask if you have looked at the brakes at all? At least see if the fluid is clearish or mud?
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 15,436
From: Phoenix, AZ
Thread Starter
Damsel in Distress
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 419
From: Valley Chic, Texas
@ octania, once I changed the fuel pump, filter was full and everything else, gas started leaking from the bottom gasket..
I replace all the gas filters and the fuel pump and a hose to the fuel filter..the fuel filter had a lot of crap in it..Im going to let the car cool down then later check all the vacuums and hoses one more time......if needed Tomorw Im taking the day off, and I have done all I can do I am taking the car to one of my reliable mechanics at a reasonable price....I just wanted to do as much as I could do..Im going to let him fine tune the carb and check rest of my vacuums...I ran the car all day but I feel still needs the fine tuning...
I replace all the gas filters and the fuel pump and a hose to the fuel filter..the fuel filter had a lot of crap in it..Im going to let the car cool down then later check all the vacuums and hoses one more time......if needed Tomorw Im taking the day off, and I have done all I can do I am taking the car to one of my reliable mechanics at a reasonable price....I just wanted to do as much as I could do..Im going to let him fine tune the carb and check rest of my vacuums...I ran the car all day but I feel still needs the fine tuning...
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 7,286
Why do you want to replace the master cylinder? Flush out the old juice, and if it works, don't fix it. Replacement may be Chinese and will almost certainly not have any correct features such as bleeders.
DWELL AND TIMING FIRST
find out what vacuum the engine is developing after setting dwell then timing.
Should be at least 18" of mercury.
DWELL AND TIMING FIRST
find out what vacuum the engine is developing after setting dwell then timing.
Should be at least 18" of mercury.
Thread Starter
Damsel in Distress
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 419
From: Valley Chic, Texas
Look at the oil they put in my car
Hey guys I went to get an oil change today...its a disaster....So fter oil change I went on a errand after 5 mins of driving the car started to smoke...and I mean SMOKE...so I went back to the shop and asked the wtf did they do..how much oil did they put in and what kind..so they wanted to put on the lift again...cuz they said it had leaks I sad theres no damn leaks on this car..and ur not touching my car again..anyway I m not sure what happened...I drained the oil as soon as I got hom it was BLACK and smelled like gas its watered down like crazy..Im so scared now the car wont stop smoking
It that normal to have a oil change then the OIL be so black and watery....
the district manager is coming over tomrw
It that normal to have a oil change then the OIL be so black and watery....
the district manager is coming over tomrw
Registered User
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 135
That oil is AWFUL black......
Thin, gas smelling oil......sounds like gasoline got into the oil system either from a VERY rich running carb or the fuel pump diaphragm has a tear in it and pumping gas into the oil thru the mounting hole.....
Thin, gas smelling oil......sounds like gasoline got into the oil system either from a VERY rich running carb or the fuel pump diaphragm has a tear in it and pumping gas into the oil thru the mounting hole.....
Thread Starter
Damsel in Distress
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 419
From: Valley Chic, Texas
@ gregvm - yes it was awful I started to cry when I started to drain that crappy azz **** they put in my car...Ive heard the horror stories about those lube places
@MDchanic I only drove to the store about 15 mins away..parked then drove back to shop
@ oldcutlass that's not my first oil change on the car, when I first got it I drained the oil...put some crap cleaner drove for 3 days as directed then another oil change I use Pennzoil 30W....so since I changed the fuel pump and filter and the carb gasket cz it leaked octania said there might be gas in oil...so I drove a little yesterday no smoke at all... so had the oil change first thing this morning...and it hasn't stopped smoking
Those people at the lube shop are used to screwing the elderly and women thinking we don't have a clue...
And I agree the oil should not be in that condition after a fresh oil change...you know those suns of guns didn't expect me to come home and drain the oil to look at it....
they thought I would say ok let me let u look at again then charge me 150 bucks for something u messed up..Yeah I don't think so dude...
So I had the oil change done at 1030 am then I drove for about 7 mins and the smoke started and wouldn't stop.so I figure maybe they put to much oil....so I finish my errand and started to come back to my side of town, the white smoke got worse so I drove back to the lube place at 1230 Pissed off Im only 60 inches..but hell...I was just irrate..so I pulled up smoking from hell and parked in the back where all the mechanics could see my car..I get out with the car o..I said what the hell did u all put in the car..It has not stopped smoking since I left here..he says left me put back up on the lift I said lift **** u aint touching my damn car anymore..went in circles for about 15 mins....so the mgr gave me a complaint paper..I called the corporate office 2 district people came by..so he looks at my car and the blk oil an noticed the new fuel pump...he says there gas in the oil..I said no **** and water...then he wanted to see the receipt when I bought the fuel pump...hes was very misunderstood..he thought I put in fuel pump after the oil change I was like NOOOOOOO..I said that's my complaint look at that crappy oil you put in my damn car...I said that is not fresh oil...they weren't listening to me cuz Im a chic...and they were very condescending to me..Once I showed them the receipt to the fuel pump..then he wanted to refund me on my oil..I told him it was too late for that I wanted that this morning...Now that you and the district and that shop has stressed me out today I want that white damn smoke gone from my car..then he said well bring the car to the shop..hahahahohohoh hell frking NO I said u got to be crazy if im ever going back so ur boys can touch my car..then he said well do u have a mechanic I said I know a few..so he gave me his card and wants me to take it to my choice of shops ....
I just sent the district mgr a pic of my flyer I will be handing out at there shop tmrw morning..I have about 4 weeks of vacation left....so the cutlass is at the mechanic shop of my choice now just got home..I took the oil to the mechanic he couldn't believe his eyes
don't know the outcome ,but I printed a pic with big red letters don't get your oil changed here they put black oil in your cars of a pic I posted ..yes sir reee bob.....
3 things I don't play...My kids....my money...and things I work hard for....I am very worried about the cutlass.....I think they put my bad oil back in the car....that's what I think...not realizing why I was changing it...
HEY BUT I GOT MY STEERING WHEEL......is that some funny shet or what...omg giggling at my crazy azz....geez man....too too funny.....thanks eric for the laugh
@MDchanic I only drove to the store about 15 mins away..parked then drove back to shop
@ oldcutlass that's not my first oil change on the car, when I first got it I drained the oil...put some crap cleaner drove for 3 days as directed then another oil change I use Pennzoil 30W....so since I changed the fuel pump and filter and the carb gasket cz it leaked octania said there might be gas in oil...so I drove a little yesterday no smoke at all... so had the oil change first thing this morning...and it hasn't stopped smoking
Those people at the lube shop are used to screwing the elderly and women thinking we don't have a clue...
And I agree the oil should not be in that condition after a fresh oil change...you know those suns of guns didn't expect me to come home and drain the oil to look at it....
they thought I would say ok let me let u look at again then charge me 150 bucks for something u messed up..Yeah I don't think so dude...
So I had the oil change done at 1030 am then I drove for about 7 mins and the smoke started and wouldn't stop.so I figure maybe they put to much oil....so I finish my errand and started to come back to my side of town, the white smoke got worse so I drove back to the lube place at 1230 Pissed off Im only 60 inches..but hell...I was just irrate..so I pulled up smoking from hell and parked in the back where all the mechanics could see my car..I get out with the car o..I said what the hell did u all put in the car..It has not stopped smoking since I left here..he says left me put back up on the lift I said lift **** u aint touching my damn car anymore..went in circles for about 15 mins....so the mgr gave me a complaint paper..I called the corporate office 2 district people came by..so he looks at my car and the blk oil an noticed the new fuel pump...he says there gas in the oil..I said no **** and water...then he wanted to see the receipt when I bought the fuel pump...hes was very misunderstood..he thought I put in fuel pump after the oil change I was like NOOOOOOO..I said that's my complaint look at that crappy oil you put in my damn car...I said that is not fresh oil...they weren't listening to me cuz Im a chic...and they were very condescending to me..Once I showed them the receipt to the fuel pump..then he wanted to refund me on my oil..I told him it was too late for that I wanted that this morning...Now that you and the district and that shop has stressed me out today I want that white damn smoke gone from my car..then he said well bring the car to the shop..hahahahohohoh hell frking NO I said u got to be crazy if im ever going back so ur boys can touch my car..then he said well do u have a mechanic I said I know a few..so he gave me his card and wants me to take it to my choice of shops ....
I just sent the district mgr a pic of my flyer I will be handing out at there shop tmrw morning..I have about 4 weeks of vacation left....so the cutlass is at the mechanic shop of my choice now just got home..I took the oil to the mechanic he couldn't believe his eyes
don't know the outcome ,but I printed a pic with big red letters don't get your oil changed here they put black oil in your cars of a pic I posted ..yes sir reee bob.....
3 things I don't play...My kids....my money...and things I work hard for....I am very worried about the cutlass.....I think they put my bad oil back in the car....that's what I think...not realizing why I was changing it...
HEY BUT I GOT MY STEERING WHEEL......is that some funny shet or what...omg giggling at my crazy azz....geez man....too too funny.....thanks eric for the laugh
Thread Starter
Damsel in Distress
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 419
From: Valley Chic, Texas
we all know if they put my bad oil back into my car, trying to pull the wool over my eyes....we all know my oil had gasoline in it from the leaky gasket from the carb...and now here's the sad part...I don't know exactly how bad it can be...But one thing I do know it's bad...I know you all know....its ok I can take...just tell me..
So even if it was fresh yellow oil and gas gets into the oil...does it turn black...or is it just yellow and then
I'm just not understanding how the oil can be so black after running for maybe tops an hour if I am wrong please tell me
I really feel they put my bad oil back in the car....
thanks eric
So even if it was fresh yellow oil and gas gets into the oil...does it turn black...or is it just yellow and then
I'm just not understanding how the oil can be so black after running for maybe tops an hour if I am wrong please tell me
I really feel they put my bad oil back in the car....
thanks eric
Last edited by becerra66; Mar 30, 2015 at 08:25 PM.
Connoisseur d'Junque
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 21,183
From: The Hudson Valley
Hey Terry. Those guys are SOBs.
They didn't change your oil. They pretended to change it and did nothing. Your black gassy oil was just the same as when you got there.
The smoke is from something else they did. I don't know what, but it's probably not a big deal to set right. They're not smart enough to really screw anything up.
If you had fresh oil in the car, and you had a leaky fuel pump diaphragm (which we do not know whether you had - your fuel pump could have been pumping badly because of a bad check valve), your oil would be thiner and smell gassy, but it would look about the same as fresh oil.
That is old oil. Straight up. And if the guys in the shop were going to put old oil in your car, they wouldn't wast their time and energy taking your oil out and putting new old oil in - they'd just do nothing.
I'm very glad you liked the steering wheel, and that it came at a time when you needed a boost. I hope it works out well for you.
- Eric
They didn't change your oil. They pretended to change it and did nothing. Your black gassy oil was just the same as when you got there.
The smoke is from something else they did. I don't know what, but it's probably not a big deal to set right. They're not smart enough to really screw anything up.
If you had fresh oil in the car, and you had a leaky fuel pump diaphragm (which we do not know whether you had - your fuel pump could have been pumping badly because of a bad check valve), your oil would be thiner and smell gassy, but it would look about the same as fresh oil.
That is old oil. Straight up. And if the guys in the shop were going to put old oil in your car, they wouldn't wast their time and energy taking your oil out and putting new old oil in - they'd just do nothing.
I'm very glad you liked the steering wheel, and that it came at a time when you needed a boost. I hope it works out well for you.
- Eric
Thread Starter
Damsel in Distress
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 419
From: Valley Chic, Texas
Guys...Ok I got the car back home OMG...I didn't like having the cutlass away from my body and soul, it was something I have nvr experienced...lol me giggling..I am still going back and forth with EXPRESS lube and all 5 district mgrs. and the 8 mechanics...Ive been BLASTING them with signs and flyers....in their corner of operation....Wednesday they had a tent, and giving free hot dogs away!!!! trying to bring in customers and save their reputation One of the district mgrs. finally asked me what do they need to make me go away..hehehehe giggling again..I said you need to fix my car end of conversation....anyways their still spinning in circles right..
********Is there anything I can mix with the oil to clean it out motor, then drain then put fresh oil again..
and what type of oil do uall use....
I did drive DnD home and no smoke but it was a short ride........and I read online they used recycled oil at their stores wtf....that's don't sound good to me...maybe it was thr cheap motor oil not sure...
********Is there anything I can mix with the oil to clean it out motor, then drain then put fresh oil again..
and what type of oil do uall use....
I did drive DnD home and no smoke but it was a short ride........and I read online they used recycled oil at their stores wtf....that's don't sound good to me...maybe it was thr cheap motor oil not sure...
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,746
From: Vancouver Island, Canada
The recycled oil is the same colour as new oil and the viscosity's the same too. Not sure that it holds up for as long though.
Many people including pro mechanics have suggested I run some ATF (like a cup or so) in my oil for several hundred miles to clean things out and see if it clears up my lifter noise. Not sure if that would have the affect you're after.
Glad to hear you've to DnD back...been following your adventure since it started here. Keep up the great work.
Many people including pro mechanics have suggested I run some ATF (like a cup or so) in my oil for several hundred miles to clean things out and see if it clears up my lifter noise. Not sure if that would have the affect you're after.
Glad to hear you've to DnD back...been following your adventure since it started here. Keep up the great work.
Thread Starter
Damsel in Distress
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 419
From: Valley Chic, Texas
Hey now that u mention it...that's what is sounds like to me...the sound of my (mochine) as johnny cash would say... don't sound like it use to..where can I get the Atf at...what kind of motor oil should I he using...like brand and30 or 40
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,746
From: Vancouver Island, Canada
ATF = Automatic Transmission Fluid. Should be available wherever you get your oil from too.
I'll let one of the more knowledgeable people speak to the oil weight to use...I know what works well in my VW but haven't given my Cutlass the fluid change treatment yet, so I'm interested in that answer too.
I'll let one of the more knowledgeable people speak to the oil weight to use...I know what works well in my VW but haven't given my Cutlass the fluid change treatment yet, so I'm interested in that answer too.
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 15,436
From: Phoenix, AZ
Thread Starter
Damsel in Distress
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 419
From: Valley Chic, Texas
Ok.. Even though i already drained the oil and added fresh..think I should change oil one more time...the shop mechanic where I had cutlass to drain oil again...then leave plug off let it air...so if any gas leg it will vaporize then add new fresh oil again...what u think... Qq
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 430
From: SE Wisconsin
Is it possible for a defective (Chinese) fuel pump to be pumping raw fuel into the crankcase? The coincidence is glaring.
It's easy to blame the oil shop for monkey business, but if the oil smells like fuel, I think there is something else going on with your engine. That would explain why the oil is so black.
Also, the fuel if there, is washing the oil sludge into the oil pan, which if the sludge is bad enough can plug your oil pump pick-up screen.
I'd be pulling that fuel pump back off, and try operating it by hand with the fuel lines connected to see if it's defective.
A leaking carb can also dump raw fuel, but if the car starts well without acting flooded, I don't think that's the problem.
It's easy to blame the oil shop for monkey business, but if the oil smells like fuel, I think there is something else going on with your engine. That would explain why the oil is so black.
Also, the fuel if there, is washing the oil sludge into the oil pan, which if the sludge is bad enough can plug your oil pump pick-up screen.
I'd be pulling that fuel pump back off, and try operating it by hand with the fuel lines connected to see if it's defective.
A leaking carb can also dump raw fuel, but if the car starts well without acting flooded, I don't think that's the problem.
Registered User
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,503
From: laingsburg mi
my .03,i wouldnt put anything in it until you get the problems with the oil change place taken care of. if something happens to the engine,after you did that,that could give them an out on fixing it. just keep good clean oil in it,it'll clean itself.
Connoisseur d'Junque
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 21,183
From: The Hudson Valley
You installed the new fuel pump, the car ran better, you drove for only a few miles, got the oil change, drove for only a few more, then drained and refilled it again.
Two questions:
Did the oil place remark that there was an unusual amount of oil in the engine?
Did you notice that an unusual amount of oil came out when you drained it?
If the fuel pump was pumping a huge amount of fuel into the oil, there would be more than four quarts in the drain pan.
If there wasn't that's not your problem.
- Eric
Two questions:
Did the oil place remark that there was an unusual amount of oil in the engine?
Did you notice that an unusual amount of oil came out when you drained it?
If the fuel pump was pumping a huge amount of fuel into the oil, there would be more than four quarts in the drain pan.
If there wasn't that's not your problem.
- Eric
Thread Starter
Damsel in Distress
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 419
From: Valley Chic, Texas
My new clean oil vs the Dirty oil I drained after oil changed
When I had the car at my friends shop, he looked at the oil he said there is no gas in the clean oil, I did show him the oil I drained after the oil changed he did agree that the oil drained has gas in it....
Eric -You installed the new fuel pump, the car ran better,
Me - MUCH BETTER BEAUTIFUL
Eric - you drove for only a few miles, got the oil change, then car started to smoke like a mesquite wood at a BBQdrove for only a few more,
Me -- about 40 miles still smoking then drained and refilled it again.
Me - Yes now the oil looks clean after driving it and no gas smell in the oil any more
Two questions:
Did the oil place remark that there was an unusual amount of oil in the engine? NO But he said I had leaks WHICH I DONT they were trying to bamboozle me is all
Did you notice that an unusual amount of oil came out when you drained it? No if any not enough about . 3 1/2 quarts drained
If the fuel pump was pumping a huge amount of fuel into the oil, there would be more than four quarts in the drain pan.
If there wasn't that's not your problem.
Eric -You installed the new fuel pump, the car ran better,
Me - MUCH BETTER BEAUTIFUL
Eric - you drove for only a few miles, got the oil change, then car started to smoke like a mesquite wood at a BBQdrove for only a few more,
Me -- about 40 miles still smoking then drained and refilled it again.
Me - Yes now the oil looks clean after driving it and no gas smell in the oil any more
Two questions:
Did the oil place remark that there was an unusual amount of oil in the engine? NO But he said I had leaks WHICH I DONT they were trying to bamboozle me is all
Did you notice that an unusual amount of oil came out when you drained it? No if any not enough about . 3 1/2 quarts drained
If the fuel pump was pumping a huge amount of fuel into the oil, there would be more than four quarts in the drain pan.
If there wasn't that's not your problem.
Administrator
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 42,514
From: Poteau, Ok
Imho, an oil change is cheap insurance. Drive it another 100 miles and change it and install a new filter. Your old fuel pump probably started this and the oil change place pulling a fast one made it worse.
As far as the oil change place, I don't know what you can get out of them aside from a full reimbursement and maybe a couple extra bucks for your trouble.
As far as the oil change place, I don't know what you can get out of them aside from a full reimbursement and maybe a couple extra bucks for your trouble.
