Is this a classic
September 21st, 2015, 09:03 PM
#41
Connoisseur d'Junque
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: The Hudson Valley
Posts: 21,183
Whether it war blowed out of portion, welll, I reckon we'll leave it to Billy-Bob an' Cletus to confabricate that out.
Yes, I did, because in order to understand why his car is not a classic, it is helpful to understand what a classic is.
Huh? A classic car is an unusually fine example of its type.
"Unusually fine" (or whatever adjectives you choose) does not relate to monetary value, it relates to artistic and engineering value.
Monetary value is determined by the forces of the market, primarily by supply and demand, not by artistic or engineering considerations.
If art, style, quality, and competence were rewarded, then Masterpiece Theatre would be rolling in dough while NBC begged for money, small, three hundred year old houses would be worth more than McMansions, and ballet dancers and chess grandmasters would be multimillionaires while football and baseball players worked second jobs so they could play ball in their spare time.
- Eric
September 22nd, 2015, 04:10 AM
#42
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 3,574
The OP's question was answered in the first reply. After that, it was all discussion on the general topic.
Whether it war blowed out of portion, welll, I reckon we'll leave it to Billy-Bob an' Cletus to confabricate that out.
Yes, I did, because in order to understand why his car is not a classic, it is helpful to understand what a classic is.
Huh?
A classic car is an unusually fine example of its type.
"Unusually fine" (or whatever adjectives you choose) does not relate to monetary value, it relates to artistic and engineering value.
Monetary value is determined by the forces of the market, primarily by supply and demand, not by artistic or engineering considerations.
If art, style, quality, and competence were rewarded, then Masterpiece Theatre would be rolling in dough while NBC begged for money, small, three hundred year old houses would be worth more than McMansions, and ballet dancers and chess grandmasters would be multimillionaires while football and baseball players worked second jobs so they could play ball in their spare time.
- Eric
Whether it war blowed out of portion, welll, I reckon we'll leave it to Billy-Bob an' Cletus to confabricate that out.
Yes, I did, because in order to understand why his car is not a classic, it is helpful to understand what a classic is.
Huh? A classic car is an unusually fine example of its type.
"Unusually fine" (or whatever adjectives you choose) does not relate to monetary value, it relates to artistic and engineering value.
Monetary value is determined by the forces of the market, primarily by supply and demand, not by artistic or engineering considerations.
If art, style, quality, and competence were rewarded, then Masterpiece Theatre would be rolling in dough while NBC begged for money, small, three hundred year old houses would be worth more than McMansions, and ballet dancers and chess grandmasters would be multimillionaires while football and baseball players worked second jobs so they could play ball in their spare time.
- Eric
Last edited by wr1970; September 22nd, 2015 at 07:10 AM.
September 22nd, 2015, 06:50 AM
#43
Hookers under Hood
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 3,543
Lord Tunderin' Geez,
I had no idea what a Classic was until all this.
I must have been drinking last night. Dam, I never post like that. I hope I dodged a bullet with you guys. I'll try to keep my posts from getting out of context in the future.
I had no idea what a Classic was until all this.
I must have been drinking last night. Dam, I never post like that. I hope I dodged a bullet with you guys. I'll try to keep my posts from getting out of context in the future.
September 22nd, 2015, 11:34 AM
#44
Just an Olds Guy
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Edmonton, AB. And "I am Can 'eh' jun - eh"
Posts: 24,525
... and end up asking how to post pics!
September 23rd, 2015, 07:05 PM
#48
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: South-central Pa.
Posts: 1,309
I think "classic" when applied to automobiles means a car that has stood the test of time in some way. Its influence on automotive design, culture, or whatever through history has been observed and documented. It is representative of its era. No car built recently can ever be a classic. Only after enough years have passed and we have seen that the car has influenced cars that came after it in some way can a car be a classic.
It's not surprising that most or all of the cars considered "classics" are from the early days of the automobile. It was easy to be the first to do something back then because the car itself was new, and no one had done anything before in terms of styling, power plants, or anything. But now, after 120 years of an auto industry, it is difficult to do something so totally new and different that what you do will one day be regarded as a classic.
A car can certainly be an "antique" as soon as it reaches some conventionally-accepted age, typically 25 years. But a '91 Cutlass is not yet an antique, and it is certainly not a classic. Right now, it's just an old car. It may be a very nice old car, but it is nonetheless just an old car.
It's not surprising that most or all of the cars considered "classics" are from the early days of the automobile. It was easy to be the first to do something back then because the car itself was new, and no one had done anything before in terms of styling, power plants, or anything. But now, after 120 years of an auto industry, it is difficult to do something so totally new and different that what you do will one day be regarded as a classic.
A car can certainly be an "antique" as soon as it reaches some conventionally-accepted age, typically 25 years. But a '91 Cutlass is not yet an antique, and it is certainly not a classic. Right now, it's just an old car. It may be a very nice old car, but it is nonetheless just an old car.
's 20 years for a classic and 25 for an antique.And there's something in there about if the model is no longer made.So it's hard to say what is a classic and what's not I guess it depends on who's definition you use.
railguy
September 24th, 2015, 09:01 AM
#49
Lt. Buzzkill (ret.)
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Western New York
Posts: 1,297
So we're debating the meaning of "classic" as it applies to cars on a website called Classic Oldsmobile (of which by strict definition there are none). Maybe we're not really here at all and I'm just dreaming...
September 24th, 2015, 09:23 AM
#50
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: southeastern Michigan
Posts: 14,193
What states choose to call the "class" of vehicles of a certain age or older that they issue special license plates or registrations for is meaningless as state legislatures around the country are not the arbiters of the meanings of the words "classic," "antique," and so forth.
I would guess the majority of states use the word "antique" for such cars. But some states use "historic vehicle" or "vehicle of historic interest." I would bet few use the word "classic."
I would guess that most use 25 years as the cutoff age, but certainly that can vary as well as we've heard here, and, again, like the words the states use to describe these vehicles, the ages they use carry no significance beyond the purposes of registering a car in that state.
In my state, New Mexico, the term used is "horseless carriage," and the horseless carriage must be 35 or more years old.
In Ohio, where I lived before moving here, the term is "historical vehicle" and the cutoff is 25 years.
September 25th, 2015, 09:39 AM
#51
Hookers under Hood
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 3,543
Here in Ontario you can get Historic plates on anything over 30yrs. Many guys at car shows refer to cars prior to 1975 a classic. Some car shows only allow 1975 and older to attend these classic get together's. My 1976 although getting old, to me its just an old car being worthless to anyone but myself.
Now the Malibu Classic, Caprice Classic of the 80's who knows what they were thinking.
Now the Malibu Classic, Caprice Classic of the 80's who knows what they were thinking.
September 25th, 2015, 11:54 AM
#52
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 216
Says you not everyone is a club guy and not everyone accepts this type of nonsense of who is deciding what is a classic.Just remember. Times change and a lot of guys who layed ground work may not even be living. So just because it started out that way and is being carried on doesn't make it right.That is why in my state there is a different definition by the insurance companies not me. By the tag office who issues out tags not me. To sum it up so any car built after the world war 2 not being a classic is bs.Once a car has reached a age of 35 years it should be considered to be a classic.
with that said i think the OCA needs to do a better job in the G-body olds community. thats the future of the club but i dont think they should change the rules to do so. the first thing i look at every month is to see if a g-body made the cover of JWO. My generation is the last generation that grew up with olds. I dont see people much younger following the brand. I can see new clubs form to allow a more broad spectrum are cars. As big as the OCA is i would still call it a niche group. with no olds around it will probably shrink significantly starting in about 15-20 years or so.
September 25th, 2015, 11:54 AM
#53
Just an Olds Guy
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Edmonton, AB. And "I am Can 'eh' jun - eh"
Posts: 24,525
May 7th, 2017, 09:24 AM
#55
Olds Fever
Join Date: May 2011
Location: New York (Upstate)
Posts: 4,442
Technically, it was considered a "classic" for insurance purposes in the 2015/2016 time frame... Since the 1991 models were usually released in the late summer early fall of 1990, a 1991 vehicle could be 25 years old in 2015 (which is the bench mark age for historical/classic vehicles)...
Thanks for resurrecting, Eric... This will be a little tease for reviving the "true classic" definition...
Thanks for resurrecting, Eric... This will be a little tease for reviving the "true classic" definition...
Last edited by CRUZN 66; May 7th, 2017 at 09:27 AM.
May 7th, 2017, 11:32 AM
#56
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Evansville, IN
Posts: 10,291
There's something that needs to be considered on what makes a classic in the USA, and that is the automaking trends of the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, and 90s.
One could argue accurately that cars in the 50s were better than cars in the 40s. More power, more comfort, better driveability. One could also continue that argument into the 60s, that the cars were simply better than their 50s counterparts.
However, once you hit the gas embargo, the pollution controls, the 5 mph bumpers, and the awful styles of about 1973 onwards, one sees that, while the cars might have been respected back then, they did not age as well as their pre-73 counterparts, which is why the 73-82 Olds's are the "forgotten years."
Now, the mid 80s G body is a slick car; they're just over-regulated low power dogs. This is why so many people take a built 1970 powertrain and put it in there. But, about that time the unibody FWD cars were taking over, and GM and Ford have yet to figure out how to make one of them sexy. (Neither have the imports.)
So, other than Corvettes, Camaros, Firebirds, Mustangs, and the like, no domestic American car (ok the Impala SS 94-96 is good as well), later than 1988 is going to make it ever as a classic, as it was and is just an appliance. Maybe some of the Dodge stuff, Chargers et al, will.
In order to be a classic in America, the car had to have style, and/or gobs of power. Car companies aren't concerned with that, and neither are the consumers. My company makes nothing really stylish or with gobs of power outside of some high-end Lexus's. They keep talking about bringing the Supra back, but it's probably going to suck.
One could argue accurately that cars in the 50s were better than cars in the 40s. More power, more comfort, better driveability. One could also continue that argument into the 60s, that the cars were simply better than their 50s counterparts.
However, once you hit the gas embargo, the pollution controls, the 5 mph bumpers, and the awful styles of about 1973 onwards, one sees that, while the cars might have been respected back then, they did not age as well as their pre-73 counterparts, which is why the 73-82 Olds's are the "forgotten years."
Now, the mid 80s G body is a slick car; they're just over-regulated low power dogs. This is why so many people take a built 1970 powertrain and put it in there. But, about that time the unibody FWD cars were taking over, and GM and Ford have yet to figure out how to make one of them sexy. (Neither have the imports.)
So, other than Corvettes, Camaros, Firebirds, Mustangs, and the like, no domestic American car (ok the Impala SS 94-96 is good as well), later than 1988 is going to make it ever as a classic, as it was and is just an appliance. Maybe some of the Dodge stuff, Chargers et al, will.
In order to be a classic in America, the car had to have style, and/or gobs of power. Car companies aren't concerned with that, and neither are the consumers. My company makes nothing really stylish or with gobs of power outside of some high-end Lexus's. They keep talking about bringing the Supra back, but it's probably going to suck.
May 7th, 2017, 03:50 PM
#57
Hookers under Hood
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 3,543
Technically, it was considered a "classic" for insurance purposes in the 2015/2016 time frame... Since the 1991 models were usually released in the late summer early fall of 1990, a 1991 vehicle could be 25 years old in 2015 (which is the bench mark age for historical/classic vehicles)...
Thanks for resurrecting, Eric... This will be a little tease for reviving the "true classic" definition...
Thanks for resurrecting, Eric... This will be a little tease for reviving the "true classic" definition...
67rocket is probably still laughing at his thread. Crazy bugger!!
May 10th, 2017, 08:07 AM
#59
ph_ckstick1
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 450
Based on the list from Classic Car Club of America (CCA), I don't think there is an Oldsmobile on the list. That is the truest definition of a classic car. Generally it is a car that was not produced for the masses and the list used to stop at 1947. The term "Classic" is used pretty loosely. I don't ever see a 91 Cutlass being considered a Classic. It will become an antique but not a Classic.
What my grandpa though was classic cars is different than my dad and different from me, and I'm sure those younger that I have another list..
The 91 cutlass may never be a "classic" in the collector car hobby I.E the buy them and stock them in a warehouse and never drive them.
But if the o/p like it.. that is all that matters.. If he like it show it some love and enjoy it..
May 10th, 2017, 08:23 AM
#60
Connoisseur d'Junque
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: The Hudson Valley
Posts: 21,183
He asked whether it was a classic, and it isn't.
If you like your Ford Focus, that's great, drive around with a smile on your face, but don't be under the misapprehension that it's a classic.
- Eric
May 10th, 2017, 01:43 PM
#64
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Forest Ranch Ca.
Posts: 7,721
May 10th, 2017, 03:10 PM
#65
Connoisseur d'Junque
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: The Hudson Valley
Posts: 21,183
... Which gives it some historic or personal amusement value, but none as a classic.
Fun fact of the day: In its country of origin, the Yugo was called the Zastava.
- Eric
May 10th, 2017, 06:34 PM
#66
ph_ckstick1
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 450
but I digress...
May 10th, 2017, 09:42 PM
#67
Hookers under Hood
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 3,543
I'm still convinced, that 80's Chev Caprice Classic back seat I flew into, learning to fly back in the day, was a "CLASSIC"
My forehead no longer has the " Caprice Classic " imprint on it from the side door emblem, but ohh I remember.
Eric
My forehead no longer has the " Caprice Classic " imprint on it from the side door emblem, but ohh I remember.
Eric
May 11th, 2017, 06:30 AM
#73
Connoisseur d'Junque
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: The Hudson Valley
Posts: 21,183
Without creating a pointless argument, I would differ with this.
The reason why there are so few "Brass Era" (teens and aughts) cars around is that there was a huge "safety" drive in the '20s that was very effective in getting all of those old, outdated, unsafe cars off the roads and into junkyards.
The reason why there are so few '20s and early '30s cars around is that there was a huge scrap drive throughout WWII, which resulted in lots of "old junk" being scrapped.
Yes, SOME of the "true classics," such as Dusenbergs and Bugattis, were carefully preserved, but others were sent to the scrapyard or the used car dealer. I seem to recall reading a story somewhere about one particular collector buying a Dusenberg at a southern California used car lot for $500 in 1946 and just driving it around like a beater.
The cars that are considered to be classics change over time, but the underlying fact that they need to be examples of unusual excellence remains, and the '91 Cutlass ain't, and ain't ever gonna be, it.
- Eric
The reason why there are so few "Brass Era" (teens and aughts) cars around is that there was a huge "safety" drive in the '20s that was very effective in getting all of those old, outdated, unsafe cars off the roads and into junkyards.
The reason why there are so few '20s and early '30s cars around is that there was a huge scrap drive throughout WWII, which resulted in lots of "old junk" being scrapped.
Yes, SOME of the "true classics," such as Dusenbergs and Bugattis, were carefully preserved, but others were sent to the scrapyard or the used car dealer. I seem to recall reading a story somewhere about one particular collector buying a Dusenberg at a southern California used car lot for $500 in 1946 and just driving it around like a beater.
The cars that are considered to be classics change over time, but the underlying fact that they need to be examples of unusual excellence remains, and the '91 Cutlass ain't, and ain't ever gonna be, it.
- Eric
May 11th, 2017, 07:57 AM
#74
Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Edmond, OK
Posts: 15,927
I would agree that a 91 Cutlass isn't a classic.
However, it's interesting to see what cars from 1973 - present have become popular. The 77 - 85 B/C body sedans are hugely popular with folks that "donk" or "slam" them. The Ford Panther platform cars (1991 - 2011 Crown Vic, Mercury Grand Marquis and Lincoln Town Car) are a hit, it's just getting more difficult to find one in good condition. Plus, full-sized SUVs like the Jeep Grand Wagoneer and Toyota Land Cruiser are fetching higher prices. They can even be found at Mecum or Barrett Jackson auctions alongside classic muscle cars.
However, it's interesting to see what cars from 1973 - present have become popular. The 77 - 85 B/C body sedans are hugely popular with folks that "donk" or "slam" them. The Ford Panther platform cars (1991 - 2011 Crown Vic, Mercury Grand Marquis and Lincoln Town Car) are a hit, it's just getting more difficult to find one in good condition. Plus, full-sized SUVs like the Jeep Grand Wagoneer and Toyota Land Cruiser are fetching higher prices. They can even be found at Mecum or Barrett Jackson auctions alongside classic muscle cars.
May 11th, 2017, 08:05 AM
#75
ph_ckstick1
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 450
Every generation has what they think is classic..
The 20-40 cars are a hard sell now because the owners are die'n off, and no one wants a stock 20-40's car.. unless it is a really high end vehicle and then they are never driven so that is a moot point.. want to look at it, get a 1:24th model of it..
The same will happen to the later 40-50's cars and so one as each generation passes..
The 20-40 cars are a hard sell now because the owners are die'n off, and no one wants a stock 20-40's car.. unless it is a really high end vehicle and then they are never driven so that is a moot point.. want to look at it, get a 1:24th model of it..
The same will happen to the later 40-50's cars and so one as each generation passes..
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
