Is this a classic
September 20th, 2015, 09:22 AM
#4
Just an Olds Guy
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Edmonton, AB. And "I am Can 'eh' jun - eh"
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Technically you have to wait another year to get to the 25 yr accepted standard of classic or antique. FWIW I have a hard time thinking 90s cars as classic.
Why do you think a 91 2 door cutlass is fairly rare? Is it. Asked on what you see as survivability?
Why do you think a 91 2 door cutlass is fairly rare? Is it. Asked on what you see as survivability?
September 20th, 2015, 10:38 AM
#5
Connoisseur d'Junque
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Location: The Hudson Valley
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Technically, "Classics" are cars of unusual artistic, stylistic, and/or engineering qualities, and the Classic Car Club of America is usually seen as the arbiter of this.
Cars in this category include Dusenbergs, the Lincoln Continental Mark II, and similar high-end, well designed cars.
So, no, your car is not a classic. Not even close. It's not even an antique until next year.
Remember, if everything old (or "antique," or "vintage") was also a "classic," the word classic would have no meaning.
- Eric
Cars in this category include Dusenbergs, the Lincoln Continental Mark II, and similar high-end, well designed cars.
So, no, your car is not a classic. Not even close. It's not even an antique until next year.
Remember, if everything old (or "antique," or "vintage") was also a "classic," the word classic would have no meaning.
- Eric
September 20th, 2015, 11:06 AM
#6
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Based on the list from Classic Car Club of America (CCA), I don't think there is an Oldsmobile on the list. That is the truest definition of a classic car. Generally it is a car that was not produced for the masses and the list used to stop at 1947. The term "Classic" is used pretty loosely. I don't ever see a 91 Cutlass being considered a Classic. It will become an antique but not a Classic.
September 20th, 2015, 11:10 AM
#7
Connoisseur d'Junque
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If they ever include one, it will probably be a Toronado or maybe a W-31.
- Eric
September 20th, 2015, 11:15 AM
#8
'87 Delta 88 Royale
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Margate, England
Posts: 2,513
No, it isn't a classic, but it is a car you can enjoy if it is reliable and you like driving it 
. It has the saving grace of being cheap to run, and parts should be available anywhere.
Roger.
. It has the saving grace of being cheap to run, and parts should be available anywhere.Roger.
September 20th, 2015, 11:30 AM
#9
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: southeastern Michigan
Posts: 14,145
Production numbers:
Calais S Coupe: 12,839
Calais SL Coupe: 2,503
Calais International Coupe: 1,454
Ciera S Coupe: 2,203
Ciera International Coupe: 411
Supreme Coupe: 15,848
Supreme SL Coupe: 10,076
Supreme International Coupe: 5,602
So whether or not your car is "rare" depends on what you count. If you have a Ciera International Coupe, then, yes, you'll probably never see another one. But if you've got a Supreme Coupe, you don't have a terribly rare car.
Overall, there were more than 50,000 Cutlasses of one flavor or another made in 1991 that were two-doors. Overall, Cutlass coupes are not rare.
September 20th, 2015, 12:22 PM
#11
Just an Olds Guy
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Location: Edmonton, AB. And "I am Can 'eh' jun - eh"
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September 20th, 2015, 12:55 PM
#14
Just an Olds Guy
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Location: Edmonton, AB. And "I am Can 'eh' jun - eh"
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September 20th, 2015, 01:03 PM
#16
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As for the CCCA Classic car list here is a link:
http://classiccarclub.org/pdfs/Why%2...%20We%20do.pdf
Although there are no Oldsmobiles there are some REO cars
September 20th, 2015, 02:07 PM
#17
Just an Olds Guy
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September 21st, 2015, 05:53 AM
#18
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Posts: 3,574
What a joke the {cca} oh my god.Have any of you ever got insurance been to a tag office? They sell classic car insurance cars 25 years old they fall in this category in my state.At thirty 35 years old a car in my state you can get a antique tag.All these clubs with dumb rules.
September 21st, 2015, 07:32 AM
#20
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So most of those cars don't go anywhere!Dumb club JMO.Oh i have had some old stuff like a 1929 essex 3 window coupe and i still have a 1938 dodge 1/2 pickup.
Last edited by wr1970; September 21st, 2015 at 07:35 AM.
September 21st, 2015, 08:46 AM
#21
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From the CCCA web site:
So, the CCCA was founded in response to rigidity on the part of the AACA, because they thought the AACA's rules were dumb, too.
You don't like their rules, fine, don't join. There are plenty of people who are very happy in the OCA, or, like me, not belonging to any club at all.
- Eric
The year was 1951. Owners of Packards, Cadillacs and the like - vintage late 1920's to early 1930's - found to their chagrin, upon arriving at old car meets, that they were not eligible to participate because the vehicles they were driving were "too modern." The Antique Automobile Club of America, the nation's oldest organization in the hobby, had relegated the enthusiasts' chosen wheels to Class 19, designated "Tow Cars." Since these vehicles were, to their minds more properly defined by the term "Classic", a new organization seemed called for.
So, the CCCA was founded in response to rigidity on the part of the AACA, because they thought the AACA's rules were dumb, too.
You don't like their rules, fine, don't join. There are plenty of people who are very happy in the OCA, or, like me, not belonging to any club at all.
- Eric
September 21st, 2015, 10:42 AM
#22
Olds Specialist LOL
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: TUCSON
Posts: 1,987
what he said!!!
From the CCCA web site:
So, the CCCA was founded in response to rigidity on the part of the AACA, because they thought the AACA's rules were dumb, too.
You don't like their rules, fine, don't join. There are plenty of people who are very happy in the OCA, or, like me, not belonging to any club at all.
- Eric
So, the CCCA was founded in response to rigidity on the part of the AACA, because they thought the AACA's rules were dumb, too.
You don't like their rules, fine, don't join. There are plenty of people who are very happy in the OCA, or, like me, not belonging to any club at all.
- Eric
September 21st, 2015, 11:36 AM
#24
Administrator
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Location: Poteau, Ok
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Its a different class of collectable. The CCCA coined the phrase Classic and it has a specific definition. The range of years are all prewar and limited to certain vehicles. I doubt that their definition and scope will ever change much. Yes there are different definitions of what is deemed a Classic car by different authorities. However the true accepted definition by the car hobby is that of the CCCA.
September 21st, 2015, 03:50 PM
#25
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 3,574
Its a different class of collectable. The CCCA coined the phrase Classic and it has a specific definition. The range of years are all prewar and limited to certain vehicles. I doubt that their definition and scope will ever change much. Yes there are different definitions of what is deemed a Classic car by different authorities. However the true accepted definition by the car hobby is that of the CCCA.
Last edited by wr1970; September 21st, 2015 at 04:36 PM.
September 21st, 2015, 03:58 PM
#26
Hookers under Hood
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September 21st, 2015, 04:32 PM
#29
Connoisseur d'Junque
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Actually, they're almost definitely all dead.
The CCCA were the first people to use the word "classic" with regard to types of motor vehicles, so it follows that even if their definition is less adhered to over time, it still imparts most of the underlying meaning of the term.
It's not a question of right and wrong. If a word or a word use is originated as having a certain meaning, major changes in that meaning over a short span of years, though they can occur, are unusual.
According to the OED,
classic (n.) "a Greek or Roman writer or work," 1711, from classic (adj.). So, by mid-19c., any work in any context held to have a similar quality or relationship. In classical Latin noun use of classicus meant "a Marine" (miles classicus) from the "military division" sense of classis.
classic (adj.) 1610s, "of the highest class; approved as a model," from French classique (17c.), from Latin classicus "relating to the (highest) classes of the Roman people," hence, "superior," from classis (see class). Originally in English, "of the first class;" meaning "belonging to standard authors of Greek and Roman antiquity" is attested from 1620s.
So, a word that had been consistently used for nearly 2,000 years, in a number of different languages and cultures, to indicate the top quality, or absolute best of a category, and which was first used 65 years ago as a word to describe the finest of all automobiles, now means any car of a certain age, regardless of quality, because you say so.
Okay.
- Eric
According to the OED,
classic (n.) "a Greek or Roman writer or work," 1711, from classic (adj.). So, by mid-19c., any work in any context held to have a similar quality or relationship. In classical Latin noun use of classicus meant "a Marine" (miles classicus) from the "military division" sense of classis.
classic (adj.) 1610s, "of the highest class; approved as a model," from French classique (17c.), from Latin classicus "relating to the (highest) classes of the Roman people," hence, "superior," from classis (see class). Originally in English, "of the first class;" meaning "belonging to standard authors of Greek and Roman antiquity" is attested from 1620s.
So, a word that had been consistently used for nearly 2,000 years, in a number of different languages and cultures, to indicate the top quality, or absolute best of a category, and which was first used 65 years ago as a word to describe the finest of all automobiles, now means any car of a certain age, regardless of quality, because you say so.
Okay.
- Eric
September 21st, 2015, 04:42 PM
#30
Hookers under Hood
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 3,543
Hey let me tell 'ya. I went with this girl one time that owned a "Caprice Classic".
Yup true story ........ don't know what year it was but I do know the springs in the back seat were shot. I wonder if it was used in the war?
Yup true story ........ don't know what year it was but I do know the springs in the back seat were shot. I wonder if it was used in the war?
September 21st, 2015, 04:48 PM
#32
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 3,574
Actually, they're almost definitely all dead.
The CCCA were the first people to use the word "classic" with regard to types of motor vehicles, so it follows that even if their definition is less adhered to over time, it still imparts most of the underlying meaning of the term.
It's not a question of right and wrong. If a word or a word use is originated as having a certain meaning, major changes in that meaning over a short span of years, though they can occur, are unusual.
According to the OED,
classic (n.) "a Greek or Roman writer or work," 1711, from classic (adj.). So, by mid-19c., any work in any context held to have a similar quality or relationship. In classical Latin noun use of classicus meant "a Marine" (miles classicus) from the "military division" sense of classis.
classic (adj.) 1610s, "of the highest class; approved as a model," from French classique (17c.), from Latin classicus "relating to the (highest) classes of the Roman people," hence, "superior," from classis (see class). Originally in English, "of the first class;" meaning "belonging to standard authors of Greek and Roman antiquity" is attested from 1620s.
So, a word that had been consistently used for nearly 2,000 years, in a number of different languages and cultures, to indicate the top quality, or absolute best of a category, and which was first used 65 years ago as a word to describe the finest of all automobiles, now means any car of a certain age, regardless of quality, because you say so.
Okay.
- Eric
The CCCA were the first people to use the word "classic" with regard to types of motor vehicles, so it follows that even if their definition is less adhered to over time, it still imparts most of the underlying meaning of the term.
It's not a question of right and wrong. If a word or a word use is originated as having a certain meaning, major changes in that meaning over a short span of years, though they can occur, are unusual.
According to the OED,
classic (n.) "a Greek or Roman writer or work," 1711, from classic (adj.). So, by mid-19c., any work in any context held to have a similar quality or relationship. In classical Latin noun use of classicus meant "a Marine" (miles classicus) from the "military division" sense of classis.
classic (adj.) 1610s, "of the highest class; approved as a model," from French classique (17c.), from Latin classicus "relating to the (highest) classes of the Roman people," hence, "superior," from classis (see class). Originally in English, "of the first class;" meaning "belonging to standard authors of Greek and Roman antiquity" is attested from 1620s.
So, a word that had been consistently used for nearly 2,000 years, in a number of different languages and cultures, to indicate the top quality, or absolute best of a category, and which was first used 65 years ago as a word to describe the finest of all automobiles, now means any car of a certain age, regardless of quality, because you say so.
Okay.
- Eric
September 21st, 2015, 05:04 PM
#33
Connoisseur d'Junque
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: The Hudson Valley
Posts: 21,183
The question was, essentially, "What is a Classic?"
I have presented my opinion regarding the answer, using arguments based on etymology and accepted principles of linguistic evolution, but pointedly disregarding some aspects of current usage, which I believe to be incorrect, and which I hope to be evanescent.
Neither I, nor, unfortunately, the OED, is the arbiter of English usage (and even the immortels of the Académie française appear to have little authority over French any longer), so I can't tell you how to speak.
The OP wanted to know whether his car was a Classic, this question naturally broadened to that of what a Classic is in a more general sense.
I have given my opinion.
I think we can disagree without hostility.
- Eric
I have presented my opinion regarding the answer, using arguments based on etymology and accepted principles of linguistic evolution, but pointedly disregarding some aspects of current usage, which I believe to be incorrect, and which I hope to be evanescent.
Neither I, nor, unfortunately, the OED, is the arbiter of English usage (and even the immortels of the Académie française appear to have little authority over French any longer), so I can't tell you how to speak.
The OP wanted to know whether his car was a Classic, this question naturally broadened to that of what a Classic is in a more general sense.
I have given my opinion.
I think we can disagree without hostility.
- Eric
September 21st, 2015, 05:14 PM
#34
Hookers under Hood
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 3,543
[QUOTE=MDchanic;859489]Probably looked like it went through a war by the time you were done with it, judging by the... thrust... of your stories...
Well I don't know about all that, But I do know it said Classic above the arm rest padding. The thrusting keeps me afloat when flying into the back seat of a "Classic"
September 21st, 2015, 05:35 PM
#37
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: southeastern Michigan
Posts: 14,145
I think "classic" when applied to automobiles means a car that has stood the test of time in some way. Its influence on automotive design, culture, or whatever through history has been observed and documented. It is representative of its era. No car built recently can ever be a classic. Only after enough years have passed and we have seen that the car has influenced cars that came after it in some way can a car be a classic.
It's not surprising that most or all of the cars considered "classics" are from the early days of the automobile. It was easy to be the first to do something back then because the car itself was new, and no one had done anything before in terms of styling, power plants, or anything. But now, after 120 years of an auto industry, it is difficult to do something so totally new and different that what you do will one day be regarded as a classic.
A car can certainly be an "antique" as soon as it reaches some conventionally-accepted age, typically 25 years. But a '91 Cutlass is not yet an antique, and it is certainly not a classic. Right now, it's just an old car. It may be a very nice old car, but it is nonetheless just an old car.
It's not surprising that most or all of the cars considered "classics" are from the early days of the automobile. It was easy to be the first to do something back then because the car itself was new, and no one had done anything before in terms of styling, power plants, or anything. But now, after 120 years of an auto industry, it is difficult to do something so totally new and different that what you do will one day be regarded as a classic.
A car can certainly be an "antique" as soon as it reaches some conventionally-accepted age, typically 25 years. But a '91 Cutlass is not yet an antique, and it is certainly not a classic. Right now, it's just an old car. It may be a very nice old car, but it is nonetheless just an old car.
Last edited by jaunty75; September 21st, 2015 at 05:39 PM.
September 21st, 2015, 05:55 PM
#38
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 3,574
I think "classic" when applied to automobiles means a car that has stood the test of time in some way. Its influence on automotive design, culture, or whatever through history has been observed and documented. It is representative of its era. No car built recently can ever be a classic. Only after enough years have passed and we have seen that the car has influenced cars that came after it in some way can a car be a classic.
It's not surprising that most or all of the cars considered "classics" are from the early days of the automobile. It was easy to be the first to do something back then because the car itself was new, and no one had done anything before in terms of styling, power plants, or anything. But now, after 120 years of an auto industry, it is difficult to do something so totally new and different that what you do will one day be regarded as a classic.
A car can certainly be an "antique" as soon as it reaches some conventionally-accepted age, typically 25 years. But a '91 Cutlass is not yet an antique, and it is certainly not a classic. Right now, it's just an old car. It may be a very nice old car, but it is nonetheless just an old car.
It's not surprising that most or all of the cars considered "classics" are from the early days of the automobile. It was easy to be the first to do something back then because the car itself was new, and no one had done anything before in terms of styling, power plants, or anything. But now, after 120 years of an auto industry, it is difficult to do something so totally new and different that what you do will one day be regarded as a classic.
A car can certainly be an "antique" as soon as it reaches some conventionally-accepted age, typically 25 years. But a '91 Cutlass is not yet an antique, and it is certainly not a classic. Right now, it's just an old car. It may be a very nice old car, but it is nonetheless just an old car.
September 21st, 2015, 06:06 PM
#39
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 3,574
The question was, essentially, "What is a Classic?"
I have presented my opinion regarding the answer, using arguments based on etymology and accepted principles of linguistic evolution, but pointedly disregarding some aspects of current usage, which I believe to be incorrect, and which I hope to be evanescent.
Neither I, nor, unfortunately, the OED, is the arbiter of English usage (and even the immortels of the Académie française appear to have little authority over French any longer), so I can't tell you how to speak.
The OP wanted to know whether his car was a Classic, this question naturally broadened to that of what a Classic is in a more general sense.
I have given my opinion.
I think we can disagree without hostility.
- Eric
I have presented my opinion regarding the answer, using arguments based on etymology and accepted principles of linguistic evolution, but pointedly disregarding some aspects of current usage, which I believe to be incorrect, and which I hope to be evanescent.
Neither I, nor, unfortunately, the OED, is the arbiter of English usage (and even the immortels of the Académie française appear to have little authority over French any longer), so I can't tell you how to speak.
The OP wanted to know whether his car was a Classic, this question naturally broadened to that of what a Classic is in a more general sense.
I have given my opinion.
I think we can disagree without hostility.
- Eric
September 21st, 2015, 06:46 PM
#40
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: North East PA
Posts: 766
