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What I'm finding on-line for replacement parts is a hub rotor assembly (pictured below). I'm not confident this is 100% correct until I can get someone to validate. The CSM is sorta ambiguous, but then again I'm looking for a hub separate from a rotor, so I'm not real keen on what I'm viewing honestly.
Norm - You originally described your lug/lug nut issue as being "in a real pickle", we've been in one of those most of yesterday evening thru this afternoon, more on that in a minute. First, wishing you good luck on whatever method you choose to try next. I was actually going to suggest the drilling method, but had no internet, and that is the intro into my next part.
Our internet went out last evening around 1030, and was still out when we got up this morning. It had been acting up the past couple of days, but had just chalked it up to poor Spectrum performance. When it was still out this morning, I called Spectrum and the agent I talked to ran some diagnostics and told me it had to be in the Router, but since my Router was not a Spectum issued Router, he could not troubleshoot it. I was able to find a customer service number for the Router manufacturer (Net Gear) and a very savvy young man was able to isolate the problem not to the Router itself, but to the ether net cable between the Modem and the Router. We didn't have an extra, so we ordered one express delivery from Walmart and it was here in 1/2-hour, and we were back in business a 1/2-hour after that. I would have never dreamed a short 3-ft. section of indoor cable would go bad, live and learn.
Had white meat turkey with Swiss on toasted Rye, along with leftover sides for dinner,, Yum!
Hope ya'll had a great day!
Last edited by Dream67Olds442; Nov 25, 2022 at 04:17 PM.
Yeah, some ethernet cables are more susceptible to breakage than others. The cheap stuff is far easier to break (internally). "Shame on you Molly" LOL. Too bad we're not closer - I have a drawer full of ethernet cables (~20-30). At one time I had six server towers in my home each running four to five Hyper-V server operating systems (i.e. 24-30 servers).
Yeah, some ethernet cables are more susceptible to breakage than others. The cheap stuff is far easier to break (internally). "Shame on you Molly" LOL. Too bad we're not closer - I have a drawer full of ethernet cables (~20-30). At one time I had six server towers in my home each running four to five Hyper-V server operating systems (i.e. 24-30 servers).
Appreciate the thought on the cable Norm! The Router company agent told me what type/spec to buy, and then I told my wife and she ordered it. I'm sure she probably bought the cheapest one, I hope it holds up?
Chris - I was actually making reference to the part which was already at fault. If it came with a router and or modem, it already was most likely cheap. Dedicated Ethernet cable purchased separately is most often more superior than the cheap stuff which comes with a laptop, PC, modem, router, etc.
Chris - BTW, it doesn't take much savvy to troubleshoot that issue. The support person pinged both sides of the router and the modem to find the issue. A router has an IP/MAC address and a modem has an IP/MAC address, employing PING or TRACERT from a DOS command line, you simply PING (broadcast) to the router &/or modem. No PING result means a lost signal - which indicates a bad Ethernet cable.
Norm, I'm not sure I am following. Are you saying you can turn nut, but it is not unscrewing from the stud? Or you are turning the nut which is seized on the stud so the nut and stud are turning within the rotor? Or are you saying that the nut is rounded and you just turn the wrench without turning the nut at all? Well usually those studs are pressed out on a press after the rotor is removed. Then new studs are pressed in the rotor. Your Cutlass( like mine) doesn't have a separate hub as the drum brake cars do. So if you just had a regular old steel wheel with hubcap, you could torch off the nut and then after everything is repaired you would clean up your wheel and repaint it, put back together and put back on hubcap. BUT as you know your nice SSII wheels won't allow that unless you ruin wheel.
Norm, I'm not sure I am following. Are you saying you can turn nut, but it is not unscrewing from the stud?
Yes, the nut has decided to wobble (most likely cross-thread it's tired ***) onto the stud far enough to stop half-way and go no further. Then, it has elected of its own free will NOT to back off the stud. It's stuck/stripped 1/2-way down the stud and it's wobbling. You know the terrible gut feeling when a nut has cross-threaded and lost it's threads. Terrible, terrible position. Freaky things happen. And, yeah, there's no way I'm torching my SSII wheels.
You should be able to get new studs and just replace them but maybe not if that one is spinning in the rotor, and I think you said the others were F--d up also. They are sposta press in tightly using a splined interference fit. so if that one is hallarred out then I would replace the rotor. You should be able to get those rotors pretty reasonable at Napa or Rockauto, etc.
OK then can you put vise grips on it and attempt to pull while unscrewing? At least that is better than it being the stud is moving. You will get it! Just go in and have a beer or 2 it will be easier in the morning....
You should be able to get new studs and just replace them but maybe not if that one is spinning in the rotor, and I think you said the others were F--d up also. They are sposta press in tightly using a splined interference fit. so if that one is hallarred out then I would replace the rotor. You should be able to get those rotors pretty reasonable at Napa or Rockauto, etc.
Appreciate your comments, you posted as I posted. The stud is not turning, the stud is fine. Several other studs have spaghetti threads so I'm going to be replacing more than one stud. The rotors themselves don't look too bad. Honestly, on this particular rotor/hub assembly I can see where one of the studs is nearly like brand new. So, someone's done a stud replacement probably not too long before I bought the car (2018). New studs are less expensive than a new rotor. I'll pick up new outer/inner tapered bearings and seal when I R&R the hub/rotor assembly for new studs.
Chris - I was actually making reference to the part which was already at fault. If it came with a router and or modem, it already was most likely cheap. Dedicated Ethernet cable purchased separately is most often more superior than the cheap stuff which comes with a laptop, PC, modem, router, etc.
Gotcha, thanks for the clarification! Also, meant to tell ya we watched "Where the Crawdads Sing" last night before our system shot craps. I thought it was pretty good, but not great, definitely worth watching though. I thought it was kind of slow through the 1st half and then got much better. My wife on the other hand just loved it! When I told her what I thought, her only comment was, "You're such a man!" At risk of sleeping on the couch, I replied, "Thanks!"
OK then can you put vise grips on it and attempt to pull while unscrewing? At least that is better than it being the stud is moving. You will get it! Just go in and have a beer or 2 it will be easier in the morning....
That's pretty damn funny and nearly the method I often employ - walk away, think about it, then come back at it with a vengeance. I'll most likely attempt to score a line down the nut with a dremmel tool first (I'd prefer to remove the nut before the wheel). ROFLMAO
However, not sure what it looks like from the back side to see if I could cut the head off the stud from the back (probably can't get in there). We'll see - hell or high water that nut is coming off. Eric did mention a nut crackin' tool. A lug nut is not the same as a standard nut however. I have some really BFH's and chisels including a couple types of pneumatic chisel hammers. Score line and hit the trigger....
EDIT: I could probably leave the lug nut attached, to the stud (as it is), fire up the pneumatic drill/chisel hammer and drive the stud out the back - MAYBE then nut would break off.
Last edited by Vintage Chief; Nov 25, 2022 at 04:59 PM.
Gotcha, thanks for the clarification! Also, meant to tell ya we watched "Where the Crawdads Sing" last night before our system shot craps. I thought it was pretty good, but not great, definitely worth watching though. I thought it was kind of slow through the 1st half and then got much better. My wife on the other hand just loved it! When I told her what I thought, her only comment was, "You're such a man!" At risk of sleeping on the couch, I replied, "Thanks!"
You know those little air grinders ? If you have one you might be able to use a used disc that would be small enough to cut a groove in the bad nut until weak enough to get off with chisel. Cover area with duct tape so you don't mess up paint on wheel. Good luck Norm, I've seen what you have done you'll get it
You know those little air grinders ? If you have one you might be able to use a used disc that would be small enough to cut a groove in the bad nut until weak enough to get off with chisel. Cover area with duct tape so you don't mess up paint on wheel. Good luck Norm, I've seen what you have done you'll get it
Hmm, now that's another thought I didn't think of. I do have a couple types of air grinders and discs. That's a possibility. I looked at the exterior of the lug nut(s) and they appear to be one-piece lug nuts with no discernible chrome "cap" (if you will). They appear as one piece. When I look inside each one I can't discern a break where metal stops and chrome begins, or see any form of a nut with an outer chrome cap. However, the very top of the lug nut isn't that thick, IMO. it would be extremely easy to drill into the center of the lug nut then continue to graduate to large size drill bits until the bloody thing (nut and stud) fall apart.
Chris, earlier this year we went and saw "Where the Crawdads Sing". I feel the same as you and my wife feels the same as Dawn! It was for sure a chick flic, but still pretty good...
Chris, earlier this year we went and saw "Where the Crawdads Sing". I feel the same as you and my wife feels the same as Dawn! It was for sure a chick flic, but still pretty good...
Yep, definitely more of a chick flick. You, Norm, and I are definitely in the same camp on that one!
Norm, just don't take a spring loaded nut off like this guy.
OMG - That's a solid metal shaft at the end (where he removed that nut) and most likely from that position shot straight into his groin/pelvic girdle. He most likely ended up in the hospital with something fractured/broken.
I've built McPherson struts, which is what those are, and put in equipment to build them. What they are is essentially a spring on a shock absorber. One compresses the spring, and puts a, if I recall correctly, a plate with three studs to mount to the car, a rubber grommet, a large washer, then a nut. Tighten nut down and let go of the spring. We had these machines timed to release the clamps just shy of uncompressed so they would slide out and not get pinched. Worked well.
This guy took the nut off, and it probably stayed in the gun. The shaft remained static, the spring uncompressed, so I bet he took whatever hardware was on top of the spring to the crotch. Considering he was not bleeding and was vocally upset, it might have been something big that hit him, which mitigates point impact loads. But, I agree, he probably broke something in the pelvis. Edit: you can see the three studded thing. I bet he took the washer, or the nut came past the gun when getting launched at him.
Norm, I believe that the disc & hub are one piece. I did not have to do brake work on either of the two '71 Supremes that I had,so I can't say what they had, but other GM cars, a '79 Toro & a '98 Lumina, on which I replaced the fronts rotors and pads were one piece. They were also front drivers, but i think they are the same. A quick look at two 1970-77 Olds service manuals that I have (Chiltons & Motor) were of no help.
Dan - Thanks for the input. I've resolved my initial question - yes, it's a hub + rotor assembly. Yes, I'd need sufficient room to use the nut splitter - not 100% sure I have the wiggle room.
My largest (3' long 1/2" drive Craftsman) torque wrench came apart just as I finished torquing the last bolt on a wheel yesterday. Where it came apart is inside the end of the handle where you place your hand on the business end. The cap popped off and a nut fell off. A nut which holds the shaft assembly together. There are two nuts - the top nut appears to be a locking nut (not sure). Both nuts are located on the shaft of the wrench with the shaft being a very long shaft with (I think) an Allen head shoulder or a Torx head shoulder. The torque wrench had been slipping in it's ability to dial in and lock a specific value the past 1/2 dozen times I used it. Nothing looks broken it just looks like a nut or both nuts have loosened. Going to have to figure this out, as well. I think I'll begin with a small punch to set an indent for a small drill bit, drill a small hole working up through larger drill bits to weaken & remove as much metal of the lug nut as possible.
Jim - I don't have a specific pneumatic grinder, but I do own a Hitachi 10 amp 10,000 RPM grinder which is used as a shaving tool (for boat bottoms and/or siding of a house). The problem w/ using that one is the attachment(s) is/are already setup for special/specific tools. I have a couple interesting grinder bits which may come handy - a couple are pretty big & beefy. I'll try to locate those grinding bits (I don't own many of them) and see if they may be of some assistance, as well.
I wonder if the PO forced on Metric nuts before? They are close. You should have 7/16x20 studs/nuts.
Greg - Missed your post yesterday. That could be the case. I'm sure the current hub + rotor assembly can't be original to a car w/ 120K miles on it. For whatever reasons, several of the studs on this hub + rotor assembly have threads which look like spaghetti. I mentioned (somewhere) I can see one of the studs has been replaced - soon two or three more studs will also have been replaced (hopefully).
I'm sure the current hub + rotor assembly can't be original to a car w/ 120K miles on it.
It would not surprise me at all if it were original - mine are. They are much beefier than modern rotors that are as thin as possible. When these cars were built it was expected the rotors would be turned several times instead of replaced at every brake job.
It would not surprise me at all if it were original - mine are. They are much beefier than modern rotors that are as thin as possible. When these cars were built it was expected the rotors would be turned several times instead of replaced at every brake job.
That's a very valid point. I hadn't considered they very likely removed the assembly & turned the rotors. Good call Kenneth. I'm updating the other thread w/ joyful images.
