Since new to me (2018) I've had several instances struggling w/ lug nuts on the RH front studs. Today, I was cleaning studs (wire brush) & replacing lug nuts with new one-piece lug nuts (sitting on my work bench the past month). I placed myself in a pickle. I have one lug nut I cannot remove - it's free-spinning ~1/2 down the stud. Stud is not spinning, the lug nut is stripped internally and spinning on the stud. I'll get the lug nut off come hell or high-water. The rear has brand new drums, the front brakes work flawlessly. Visualizing (without great detail at this point) the calipers appear OEM (?), the brake pads look fine, etc.

Here comes the question: In order to replace the hub on this front brake system I reviewed the CSM (and, most likely I've confused myself) looking for a separate hub. But it appears the brake rotor is one self-contained hub + rotor "assembly", IOW, the hub is not separate from the rotor and for replacement I am to purchase a hub + rotor assembly - is that correct?

If the above is correct (purchase/replacement of the hub + rotor assembly), does anyone have any words of wisdom - new "anything" seal(s), bearing(s), repack, etc.? First time I've had to work on the front axle/hub/rotor assembly on this car.

Finally, I'll perform this R&R to both front systems. I'm fine with stock OEM equivalent parts (no upgrades) but I've read some parts manufacturers are better than others. Any suggestions?

Thanks for looking.

 

Norm,
why not just replace the lug studs? They are easy to replace.

 

Go to northern and get you one of these if the rotor is still good and replace the bad stud.
Klutch Nut Splitter Tool Set — 2-Pc. | Northern Tool

 

Kenneth - I believe that is a perfectly fine option, as well. Honestly, I'm not real certain what I'll find after removal of the "assembly", but yes I could replace the studs as you suggested. Can you tell me though am I correct in understanding the hub + rotor is one assembly? IOW, the hub is not separate from the rotor but instead the hub is an integral part of the rotor?

 

I'll need to validate. The lug nut is not a 'typical' nut, per se. There's some size and length to these.

 

So the nut is spinning on the stud? I wonder if you can use an impact wrench to spin it fast enough to back it off or strip it more so it’s loose enough to be pulled off.

 

Yes, lug nut is spinning on the stud about 1/2-way down the threads of the stud (in a wobbling fashion none-the-less). I've attempted a fast impact wrench - it seemed to do nothing more than allow the nut to spin faster.

I've seen a couple of other ways - dremel tool slicing the nut, brute force with deep socket wrench (which I currently use anyways) and a VERY LARGE pipe fashioned to my already large breaker bar then with brute force simply up & down until the stud breaks off.

I guess I need to get more up close on the wheel/hub/brake assembly and the CSM to answer my question regarding the hub + rotor assembly.

 

After thinking about this, you can just cut the stud off and then install a new one.

 

I initially thought the exact same thing, either behind the hub or between the hub and the wheel itself. I'm still struggling to determine how this "assembly" is put together. Sounds simple enough, yet the CSM is not the most clearly worded in terms of this assembly, IMO. Right now I'm under the notion this is one hub + rotor assembly (a uniform assembly) as opposed to a separate hub and a separate rotor.

 

Well, I assume it's one assembly unit (hub + rotor). As per the CSM: Remove grease cup, cotter pin, nut & washer. Pull disc and hub off wheel spindle and remove outer wheel bearing from hub.

 

need to get caliper off first before rotor will come off

 

Oh, yeah.

Additionally, I'd prefer to get the wheel off first.

 

i used 71 cutlass spindles on my 65 cutlass, the rotors are the same as my 73 nova..

 

Norm, the hub and rotor ARE one assembly. You have two bearings that are part of the rotor..1 inner and 1 outer, in addition to 1 inner seal. If memory serves me correct, there is a small lip on the inner bearing hole that won't allow the seal to go down too far. Also, when you replace the seal, my advice is to use an aluminum block that is bigger than the hole diameter and gently tap the block to "press" the seal into the rotor/hub assembly. Make sure it goes in straight, and when you've got it in, it should sit flush with the rotor. Upon installation, make sure to consult your CSM, as there is a proper sequence to set the spindle nut.
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Hope this helps, and feel free to ask any questions.

 

Dave - Thanks for the feedback. I wasn't complete certain. Thanks for the heads up. I found a video of an old-timer performing an R&R of his 1971 4-4-2 rotor/hub assembly, taper bearings & seals. I read the spindle nut tightening sequence in the CSM. Thanks again. Cheers.

 

Norm, YES the hub and rotor are one assembly

 

Jim - Thanks, man. I'm not a huge fan of DORMAN (anything). I'd favor a factoryforge/assembly plant with a better metal fabricating history than DORMAN for wheel/lug studs. I've found what "appears" to be the correct size studs, but I've learned the hard way on this stuff it's far better to have a stud in hand to measure length, splined bore diameter, thread size, thread diameter, shoulder length (blah, blah, blah) than to order based upon an on-line parts warehouse for the correct studs. So, I'll wait until I remove the hub/rotor assembly and ensure I get the exact size I need - hopefully from someone other than DORMAN.

EDIT: Yeah, in case you haven't figured it out my current intention is to replace bad studs.

 

Norm, the studs are the same for most all early 70s GM intermediates, so there shouldn’t be any issue looking them up on your favorite parts store web site. I worked in auto parts stores through high school and college and can say that is a very common part.


edit: deleted some inaccurate information

 

Kenneth - I know you worked in a parts store and you're most likely correct. I reviewed the DORMAN site and the RA site, and a couple reviews of the DORMAN studs with a couple guys expressing anghst when they installed their studs to find out the threads were NOT as described - off by thousands, but you know with thread sizes, bolting down nuts with conical tapered seats I'd like to ensure they actually fit the thread and remain secure in the hole. So, I play the devil's advocate on some things.

 

Easiest thing to do is bring one of your lug nuts to the local parts store and verify it spins onto the stud.

 

Example: Apparently the guy reviewing knows what he's talking about; and, when you can't machine threads accurately they aren't correct. Stuff happens all the time. I prefer to limit ambiguity from the start.

The above is just one example. This is supposedly the correct wheel stud for the assembly (from RA).

 

Exactly my intention.

 

As a follow up to my previous post, I did an R&R on the front brakes/rotors on my '72 Supreme, and the thought of the wheel stud threads being mis-machined never crossed my mind. All I know is when I bought a set of wheel nuts for my Rocket Racing 5 spokes, I had no issues with fitment whatsoever.

 

On second thought, maybe I'm being too finicky. I rolled the dice and ordered a set (10) of the Dorman 610-105 Front Wheel Lug Studs. Life's short I'll take my chances so I can drive it again soon.

 

OK Norm, I just thought of something else you better check.... Your wheels I think are off a newer Cutlass/442. (They are actual chrome rims whereas the 70-72 (or whatever) have a painted steel wheel with trim rings. That works fine and I wish I had your wheels. But... What if the PO used the wheels AND rotors on your car??? Well you might have metric studs/ nuts on the front. I don't know if that is even possible. But you better check. Your new 7/16x20 nuts should thread on to your studs easily. Wow that would be sumptin!!!

 

OH just saw you ordered new studs so you should be all set regardless....

 

That thought crossed my mind initially, as well.

 

Very slowly making some progress. Removed (drilled out) top (cap) of the lug nut; then, you guessed it (maybe) the stud began turning - leaving a turning lug nut with a turning stud - not so much fun. The big issue is it's very difficult to get room to use tools. I managed to get enough of a high speed grinder onto the lug nut to create a modest slice into the lug nut, but space is restricted proving difficult (for the tools I have at least). I used a (very) large serrated dead-blow chisel hoping to crack the lug nut enough it would break off. That hasn't happened - yet. I might see if I can slice a line w/ a Dremmel. Since there's no SOP for this type situation, it's a learning process. Stand-alone halogen shop light bulb burnt out - time for a little break in the action during the 7th inning stretch (hopefully).



Top/Cap drilled out.

More lug nut material removed.

Further material removed

Grinder slice and several dead blows w/ a large dead-blow chisel.

 

The obvious problem is they were made to come off

 

I would try removing all remaining lug nuts. Once they are removed, pull against the wheel while using your Impact to try to remove stubborn lug nut. By doing this you might be able to get some threads to engage. I have had luck with this method.
I would put some tape on the wheel in the area you are working to protect it. Good luck. One more thing...sometimes walking away when things get frustrating is the best thing to do. Good luck.

Don W

 

Don - I appreciate the comments. I initially had the other lug nuts removed leaving the one remaining stubborn lug nut then prying outwards hoping to engage several threads - that didn't work. The cutout for the lug nut & stud is getting beat up, but nothing I don't think some sand paper & steel wool won't fix to address cosmetics prior to some new paint. Where I initially thought I had a pickle is turning into a zucchini. I brought out my pneumatic jack hammer - the lug nut metal is doing nothing more than peeling away - taking forever and resulting in no further gains. This metal is beyond hardened - ugh. I've made no further progress & I believe this method has come to an (without any better or more appropriate tools). Forget about a Dremmel - won't even touch this metal. Lug nut = 1 - Norm = 0.

 

I honestly like your suggestion & it was one of my initial thoughts. However, I'm not clear how I'm going to address gaining access to the stud. I wonder if it's (at all) possible to remove the caliper with the wheel attached. At least in this respect I could remove the axle/spindle/wheel nut and remove the entire hub + rotor assembly with the wheel attached then cutoff the stud. I have no clue if that's even remotely possible. Maybe time to put the front end on jack stands to see (really up close) how much room there is to see if it's even feasible. I "suppose" the "other" possibility is to remove the axle/spindle/wheel nut (loosening caliper bolts) then see if there's room to remove the hub + rotor assembly & wheel just enough to gain access to remove the caliper from that position? Argh. Sweet Jesus what a pickle.

Brute Force. "He Man" Method? I can't stop laughing each time I view this one...

 

Maybe try a carbide bit? You will need to start with a flat surface if possible to prevent breaking the carbide bit.

Don W

 

So was that video an issue with low quality studs, or were they OK quality and were stripped by someone who over torqued the lug nuts? Think impact gun or gorilla mechanic.

 

Tried the carbide bits. They create a hole and that's it. The metal is so hardened it doesn't even weaken the surrounding metal. It's possible I "may" try another resort of "attempting drill out the stud itself, but my presumption is that's going to be almost impossible. No SOP for this stuff just forge ahead.

 

A small die grinder with a small diameter carbide bit would have been my first go-to. At this point, I'd drill into the center of the stud. Step the hole out to larger and larger drill sizes until you've reached the 7/16" diameter of the stud. Sharp drill bits and lots of lubricant are the keys. The remains of the lug nut will come off at that point.

 

Thanks, Joe. Still a viable possibility & perhaps the best one. This may get expensive with more carbide tipped bits - but, if that's what it takes, that's what it takes. I'm not sure I own that many graduated sizes in carbide tips - Yet! Thanks for checking in.

 

I have absolutely no clue.

 

Next on the agenda is leftover Lasagna Italiano. Tomorrow I'll break it all down & prep for new studs, new inner/outer Timken tapered bearings & new seal arriving next Thursday. Minor collateral damage to the nested cavity which I can address with sandpaper & wire wool prior to some new paint.

Persistence/Perseverance. I stayed w/ your suggestion, Joe. Thanks.


Pilot

1st gradation

2nd gradation

3rd gradation

Final gradation - 3/8"

 

I hope the hub stud cutouts for the serrated studs are still in good shape - I'll address that later.