bccsrc

Hello,

Started the 64 Olds Dynamic 88 Convertible today. I'd like to freshen up the engine compartment. My dad bought this in 1965 and parked it in a barn after moving on to a different ride. After 20 years my aunt asked him if he still wanted it. He had no idea it was still around. My dad built this engine and restored the car.

I have it now and its basically 20+ years later since he built the engine. I'm thinking about pulling the engine and transmission (hydramatic crap - need to convert) to clean it up with some fresh paint.

The engine does seem to take a long time to start and has some type of stutter when you step on the throttle. Do you think these carbs need rebuilt? I'm not sure what type of carbs these are but I could probably rebuild them or have someone do it.





Is this the best fuel feed option I have (I remember dad making from scratch more then 20 years ago):



Does this fuel filter look dirty? Where can I get a new one?



Brandon

oldcutlass

The fuel filter should still be available through your auto parts store or one of the resto suppliers. The carburetors are probably Carters or Edelbrock Performers and your primary carb is the rear one. There may be some aftermarket type hard fuel lines for an Edelbrock setup or you can just replace the rubber line setup with some new fuel injection hose. The hesitation and stumbling is probably because the carbs need a good cleaning and a rebuild from sitting.

D. Yaros

It looks as though Dad was quite knowledgeable and liked his Oldsmobile. Keep it as is!

67 Cutlass Freak

Looks functional to me. You could upgrade the fuel line as oldcutlass mentioned. I would also recommend using the fuel injection type hose clamps that are a solid band all around. They don't dig into the rubber like the ones you currently have. If you wanted to get fancy, you could do a braded line set up with a splitter block. That stuff can get costly but it does look nice. As far as your running issue, I suggest you switch over to electronic ignition. Petronics sells a kit for less than $100. You'll never have to mess with points again. My friend Dane Luling from Mild to Wild Racing is a distributor. He could also help you with rebuilding your carbs. He test runs every one he builds on his running engine stand.
His phone number is 262-862-2501 tell him Dave sent you.

Don R.

That is a cool looking setup. The carbs look like real Carter AFB's, hopefully two smaller CFM versions. Follow Eric's advice but after sitting 20 years I suggest you replace ALL the rubber lines including those at the rear of the car connecting to the tank. I'd also drain and flush the tank and rebuild the carbs and fuel pump with modern ethanol resistant materials. And last, replace what looks like a return spring supported by the radiator hose! Good luck, let us know how it comes out.

Tedd Thompson

Cool ride, You may have to put up with that transmission unless you have big bucks. The swaps that are available are all very expensive and require transmission tunnel modifications, different mounts and a different crossmember. All doable but none are a drop in situation and will take some fabrication and welding skills to do a safe clean job. Some people have had good luck with the Slim Jim transmission but I am not one of them, so the best of luck with what ever you decide to do....Lost in the fifties ...Tedd

bccsrc

After doing a little research it looks like these are Carter 9635S 625 CFM carbs. I found a rebuild kit KT-5281 for $27.00.

I removed the following today:

Both Carter AFB 9635S carbs
Intake
Radiator, fan, shroud, hoses
Alternator and brackets
Power steering pump and brackets
Distributor, plug wires
Fuel pump
Valve covers

I need to remove the grease and paint the engine. What should I use to remove the grease and what color paint should I use?

I would like to clean up these valve covers and replace the gaskets. What should I use for this? They seem to have some service rust. When I pulled the valve covers I found some of these on the passenger side and all of the ones below in the picture on the drivers side.



A while back I couldn't push the throttle down at all. I thought it was the overdrive linkage going down to the transmission so I unhooked it. Today I found that this bracket was seized and I couldn't move it by hand. I found that interesting.



Brandon

bccsrc

Since it still moves, I don't think I will tackle the transmission right now. I would really like to swap it out soon though.

bccsrc

I may have to check out the electronic ignition. Any idea which kit you are referring to?

billmerbach

Question could he switch over to hei would it not save him time and money

67 Cutlass Freak

Dane sold me one for my '64 Dynamic 88. It was real easy to install. Those chunks look like they might be remnants of valve seals. Better check it out. Also make sure the oil return holes in the heads are free of debris.

The Petronics kit we're talking about is a conversion to electronic ignition. The factory never made an HEI distributor for the 394's and I don't know of any aftermarket company that sells an HEI distributor. Even if they did, I doubt it would work with his dual carb set up, clearance wise. The conversion to the turbo 400 trans does sound a little pricey. I have an extra Slim Jim trans, so I might have one built just in case.

billmerbach

The Petronics kit we're talking about is a conversion to electronic ignition. The factory never made an HEI distributor for the 394's and I don't know of any aftermarket company that sells an HEI distributor. Even if they did, I doubt it would work with his dual carb set up, clearance wise. The conversion to the turbo 400 trans does sound a little pricey. I have an extra Slim Jim trans, so I might have one built just in case.[/QUOTE]

Ik I was wondering if it would work but yea with dual carbs clearance would be an issue

67 Cutlass Freak

115-1513_IMG.jpg
114-1485_IMG.jpg
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Now you need to post up sme photos.

oldcutlass

I agree with all the above and yes those pieces are whats left of your valve guide seals. On the valve covers, if they were chrome, sometimes some fine steel wool with dish soap and water will remove surface rust.


Were you able to find a fuel filter?

Oldsmaniac

Cool setup but ya may want to find a better place for that carb/throttle return spring.

Tedd Thompson

If you are asking about engine color the hi compression engine (I assume yours is) would be that color as shown on 67 cutlass freak's post. The low compression engines were a blue turquoise color. And by the way my stock valve covers on my 63 were painted the same red as the rest of the engine....Tedd

bccsrc

Do I need to replace these valve guide seals? I'm assuming if I replace the bad one I should replace them all. I have a second Hydramatic as well. I just figured there isn't much I can do to make it any better. I may order the gasket kit and ask about the Petronics kit. Thanks for the information on cleaning up the engine and engine compartment.

I haven't looked for the fuel filter yet. I may try to clean these valve covers up. What is a good brand for the chrome valve covers I should be looking for?

I agree 100%. There just isn't much to hook the spring to up in that area. Got any recommendations? Obviously the tie wrap is not a good idea.

Yes it's high compression. I don't know about painting the valve covers. I like the look of them being chrome.

Don R.

* On underhood cleaning, take a look at my progress thread at https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...rogress-2.html
I just finished doing my engine and most of the underhood. I would suggest removing the radiator and shroud, it will make access much easier. I'd be real careful with a pressure washer except maybe underneath. I used something called Superclean which is a non-solvent water soluble cleaner. Spray it on, let it work and use water in a spray bottle to rinse it off. Finish with wax and grease remover then paint. do all the cleaning and painting before you put on your new hoses and fuel lines.


* Don't write off your Slim Jim too quickly. The correct operation of that trans is dependent on linkage adjustment as all controls are mechanical. The dual quad conversion may have affected that and that frozen bellcrank definitely is a problem. When you get it back together you will have to adjust by trial and error to get the shift quality right. Also, change the trans filter and fluid before you try to drive it. Good luck

bccsrc

Thanks for providing the link. There is a lot of good information on this forum. Should I paint the intake or leave it the same? I'm super excited to work on this and get it cleaned up and running better. I have pulled the radiator, fan and shroud.

The pressure washer idea scares me a little.

Any idea what the correct adjustment would be for on the transmission?

67 Cutlass Freak

bccsrc

If I purchase the Fel-Pro gasket kit, are those head gaskets any good? If I have to remove the rocker shaft, I might as well pull the heads and do this work on my bench and save my back. I also see there are 2 different kits depending on the year. I just want to verify the year of this 394. On the bellhousing the number is 585786-4 1/8. Does that tell you the year of the engine?

FEL-FS7996PT 61 - 62

FEL-FS7996PT1 63 - 64

I'm in no hurry, do you think its worth pulling the heads?

One more question. How much should I expect to pay to have these carbs rebuilt? I'm trying to decide if this is something I should do and are there any instructions on how to do this? And what not to do.... I'm capable, but I haven't really messed with engines since dad was around in the 90's.

Brandon

D. Yaros

The names that keep being offered up for 1st Class carb rebuild work are Daytona Parts Co. http://www.daytonaparts.com/ and Sparky's Carb http://www.sparkyscarbs.com/. Expect to pay in excess of $300 per carb.

As for diy, not all that difficult. Here is a tutorial I made when I rebuilt the 4 bbl on my Cad http://GrayLady.WebNG.com/carbrebuild.htm

Don R.

* since you have to do all the other work might as well pull the heads. It would let you check out the valves and pistons plus clean everything up.


* just my opinion but unless you want a cosmetic restoration on your carbs I'd rebuild them yourself. AFB's are dead simple carbs compared to other types, just get good kits, a spray can of carb cleaner and an air hose. Do them one at a time and set yourself up to finish one carb the same day you take it apart, helps you not forget where things go. This approach will save you many hundreds of dollars and if something goes wrong you aren't out more than a little time and a few bucks.

bccsrc

Sounds good to me. I will rebuild them.

I'm having a hard time finding the correct engine paint color. Got any ideas? Deep Red? Is that this paint?

bccsrc

FYI. This link doesn't work. It comes up with:

HTTP Error 404 - Not Found

Brandon

Charlie Jones

Ford Thunderbird red (1955-57) is reportedly an almost exact match to the original Olds red. Should be available from most Ford resto suppliers.

bccsrc

Is this weird? All of the intake valve guide seals were in pieces and the exhaust valve guide seals were fine.

What should I be looking for now that I have these heads disassembled?

I ordered most of the stuff mentioned on this thread. Hoping to have the afb rebuild kits and fel-pro gaskets by Friday. I also ordered the PerTronix Ignitor III, coil, and new plug wires.

I found the fuel filter as well. I'm going to clean up the valve covers for now. Those are easy to swap out later.

67 Cutlass Freak

A couple things to check:
1) Make sure the rockers aren't too sloppy on the shaft.
2) Check the rockers where the pushrods contact. Look for abnormal wear.
3) Make sure all the oil passages are clear and clean, including the returns.
4) Check the block and heads with a straight edge for warpage.
5) Inspect the lifters for damage.
6) Turn the engine over by hand and check that all the lifters move up the same amount (checking the cam for a flat lobe)
7) Inspect the cylinder bores for excessive wear.
8) Chase all the threaded holes before reassembly & wire wheel the bolts.
9) The used 394 I picked up had some broken rings. I have heard this is very common, but can't be checked without removing the pistons.
10) Inspect the distributor shaft bushing and teeth on the gear.
11) If you need any torque specs, I have the repair manual on a disc.

Don R.

Did you do a compression test on the engine before you disassembled? If so the readings should be as uniform as possible, no more than 20% difference between high and low, and nothing under 100psi. My engine, which has been rebuilt, has 180 psi in all cylinders. Clean up the combustion chambers and inspect the valves and seats carefully when you do the seals, also make sure they don't wobble in the guides. Also check the valve spring pressure and length per the shop manual. If anything is off now is the time for a valve job while the heads are off.

bccsrc

Thanks.

bccsrc

I didn't do a compression test. I was only planning on cleaning up the engine and rebuilding the carbs. How can I check the valve spring pressure? Do I need a tool for that?

bccsrc

Cleaned up the heads today. Cleaned the valves and put the heads back together. I checked the heads for warpage and didn't see any. Reminds me that dad said these heads were milled 20 thousands or something like that. Does that make sense?

Cleaned and rebuilt the carbs today as well. So should I paint this intake the same color as the engine? I can't decide whats best.



Need to clean up the block still and hopefully the paint will be here Monday. I kind of want to get things put back together to prevent the cylinders from rusting. We are leaving for vacation to Mexico the following Sunday for a week.

Should I clean up the exhaust manifolds? Can you paint them or will they just get hot and turn back to looking like they were never painted?

D. Yaros

If it were my car I would paint the intake manifold. The mere presence of the dual carbs makes a more than sufficient statement!

Tedd Thompson

It's unfortunate that you couldn't have driven your car for a while and checked a few things out before it was torn down.It would be ashame if you have excessive blowby or high oil consumption after you put it all back together. If you have the heads off I would get a 3 angle valve job done so there is no problem in the future with unleaded gas though I have ran a SBC for twenty years without this change.

If in fact your heads have been shaved 20 thousands someone has adjusted the pushrods according when the engine was assembled the first time so that should already been addressed on the last rebuild, but I bet you will be using only the highest grade of fuel because this will probably raise your already high compression even higher, expect some ping on exceleration.... Just a few thoughts ....Tedd

Don R.

I'm with Dave, paint the manifold. It will be much easier to keep clean. For the exhaust manifolds Eastwood used to make a brush-on stainless steel coating that worked really well, gave a dull silver gray look and did not burn off.

Charlie Jones

I noticed that your throttle linkage is hooked up directly so that both carbs open together. This may be your stumble problem.
This setup might be OK if you were to run at wide open throttle all the time.
However the preferred setup for a streetable dual quad setup would be progressive linkage. It should be set up so that the engine only runs on the rear carb until it reaches two thirds to three quarters throttle. At that point the throttle linkage would open the front carb rapidly so that all eight barrels would reach wide open at the same time.
If you don't feel like fabricating your own linkage, there is a company called Race Cars in Retrospect from Ohio that can make what you need.

Also, what about the camshaft? Is it stock? If it is, then the dual quads will be there for a decoration. Because without more lift and duration in the cam the increased carberation will add very little power.

bccsrc

I have driven the car multiple times in the past 5 years or is it 10 years. Maybe once or twice a summer. The car is hard to get started and once its running it seems to be ok. By looking at the carbs, they looked like they needed rebuilt. Specially once I got them apart. The heads are defiantly milled. Not much left of the deck.

I would love to do all the extras but my wife says I'm already past my budget. (Is there really a budget?) Really though, I don't think it needs the valve job. The olds runs on Premium fuel, and has a non stock cam. Don't ask me what it is, because I can't remember. Do they call it a 3/4 cam or something like that? Trying to pull this stuff from memory......

I think I will paint the intake manifold. Just to change it up a little. Any idea if they still sell this type of air filter? There is not much clearance between the hood and the top of the air cleaner.

The linkage has always been this way. We've never had any trouble. Should I change it? My dad was a mechanic for 30 years, me not so much. I learned most of it from him. I'm open to suggestions.

bccsrc

Kind of changing my mind about having the heads rebuilt. I will check tomorrow to see what it would run. How can I prevent stuff from rusting up, like the cylinders? My thoughts is to leave the heads setting on the engine.... ? I lose sleep over the thought of letting this sit to much and seeing rust on the engine.

Charlie Jones

A good coat of vaseline or grease will prevent rust. Wipe most of it off before you assemble the engine. Or it will smoke like h@ll when you start it.

Tedd Thompson

As far as your heads or cylinders rusting ( I'am assuming that this car is being at least indoors) just wipe all the exposed areas with something like white grease and bag them so they don't get dusty.

Some of your stumbling could be caused because of almost double the CFM of carburation needed to run that engine and having it set up with non progressive linkage. unless a huge cam is in there I doubt the car can ingest all that fuel that quick. Many people with hot rods just close off the secondaries and run it like a 4 bbl but still have the cool factor of 2- 4bbls just for appearance. Just a thought ...Tedd