Just got a call from the machine shop. It's currently bored .030 over and there's still some pitting at the top of the bore. He wants either Dad or I to come look at it and figure out which option we'd like to move forward with. He's nervous going .060 since it's a numbers block and he doesn't want to go too far and ruin it, I'm hesitant to just say sleeve it as it's been 4 months at this point.

Dad is headed over there this afternoon, so we'll see what he reports back but ultimately I'll still be taking it to the other shop for final assembly/dyno testing.

 

yeah, I need to get ahold of them for my distributor. I'd thought about having them do the carburetor as well, I'm just really torn based on it being a 72 replacement carb and the unknown condition (so far) of the intake.

 

With a 3 7/8" original bore you'd think there's be plenty of meat for .060. Remember the 455 went 4 1/8 with essentially the same block.

 

Thats what I thought, but he wasn't sure. Dad didn't make it down there today, but plans on being there early tomorrow morning. The more I think about it, the more I feel like I should just have him sleeve the one in question and get it done and out of there.

Everything will be .030 over, and when I take it to the next shop it'll be a simple explanation.

 

How much does he really know about Olds engines ? Has he sonic checked the cylinder walls for thickness ? Why does he think the block will ruined ? Can you find +.040" pistons ?

I wouldn't sleeve a block unless its absolutely necessary.

 

Not sure. I doubt it's been sonic checked for thickness, he said he typically doesn't like to go .060 as it makes him nervous. I asked about .040, he didn't think it'd clean up the pitting at the top of the bore.

The other thing Dad and I are thinking he's wanting to show where the pitting is, and it may be above the rings and may not be an issue. (We're thinking that, knowing full well we don't know enough to be confident in that idea)

 

Dad just called, the 1 cylinder in question is getting sleeved. He did say that he'd like to get a piston to double check against the bore, so that being said it looks like I'll need to go ahead and order the pistons.

With that in mine, I keep seeing the best thing to do is use Pontiac Rods and SB Mopar pistons. Is this accurate? Am I correct in understanding it is due to lack of aftermarket support for these?

I've never had to order pistons/rods, so I'm out to lunch on this..

Thanks.

 

H-beam aftermarket rods are available for the big block and quite common these days. Pistons for the 400G are available from multiple sources but quality and design differences vary. Pick up a copy of Travato's book for more info or reach out to one of the knowledgeable engine builders like Cutlassefi for guidance and procurement help.

 

I sent you a PM.

 

The 400G uses it's own casting not just the 455 casting with thicker sleeves. You still have to check cylinder wall thickness.

 

I did not know that.

To BG with regard to pistons: Depends on your intended use for the car. I used Egge cast pistons in mine which were the only option I knew of at the time. I do not race and only get the engine past 5000 once in awhile. I know they're not the ultimate performance solution, but, the Egges have been great for my purposes

 

I implore you to talk to an Olds savvy engine builder before making your next move! PLEASE, for your own good. No offense but at the moment you resemble a fireworks display that started blowing off in all directions. A mistake at this point might turn out to be very painful. You have a 2 year only engine there and not that many people are familiar with the details, options and offerings.

Cutlassefi - aka Mark Remmel in FL
BillK - aka Bill Koustenis Advanced Automotive Machine in MD
Bill Travato - BTR Performance in Rochester, NY

There are others but these 3 were the first that came to mind. Confer with one of these guys, make your best plan, buy your pistons/rods, whatever from them, you’ll be in a lot better shape when it comes time to enjoy the car.

​​​​​​….

 

With my little time here, I've seen @cutlassefi brought up often when it comes to engine builds. I'm not going for anything more than a street able build that has some cam to it, so I wouldn't imagine I'd need much more than a basic rebuild..which I would think any reputable shop could handle. Heck, my most recent Mopar build stumped a long time Mopar engine builder, but it was quite potent for a 318.

That being said, I completely understand the firework analogy. I've only ever done top end work (different heads, cam, etc) so block/bottom end is completely new to me. Also, I'm wanting to triple check everything because it is a short run block, with numbers matching low production number car.

The current machine shop I have personally used before with zero issues, and he is one of the preferred shops around for both dealerships and local gearheads. The machine shop that will be assembling is a performance shop that has been around for many years and (from my understanding) has a great reputation. They have experience with multiple variations of Olds engines (though the 400 did not have an "assembly package" price)

Again, I'm not building a drag/racing engine, or anything crazy. I just want something that has a bit of a cam upgrade, yet is streetable and a great cruiser. Yes, this isn't a Hurst or W30, but it's still a California post car with less than 2,500 made.

 

I hear ya. Again, I wasn’t throwing fesces at you. My thought, among the many expressed here is first, I would have those bores sonic checked just to know what you have to work with and either narrow or expand your choices. If you can easily or safely go .060”, why not? Doesn’t sound likely that you’ll blow it up but why not enjoy a little bit of quicker spin up (assuming sexier pistons) and power? That block may still have some beef to give up if it were to get beat up but how will you know without the sonic check? You may have a bore or two that are thin right now, but again, only one way to find out. Why put the equivalent of 1940’s tractor pistons (I’ve held those OPP offerings in my hand, used in someone’s build, not impressed) in a new build? Obviously they’ll work and be reliable, but why not talk to someone who has performed in this arena to see what the options are? Are you getting compatible pin size, compression height, etc? That’s easy but also easy to make a mistake. There are workarounds, new specific offerings and Mark, for one, seems to enjoy perusing the Mahle catalog and may find just the thing in a modern design, complete with rings & pins. I got lost on where you’re at with rods but if you can get better, new rods with better bolts for similar money, why rebuild old ones with a millions cycles on them? Plenty of good I beam rods to choose from.

Im just saying that your shop may be competent and generally knowledgeable, BUT, they have somewhere between zero and very little knowledge of what Oldscentric builders know or have found to be good solutions in that very limited run of engines. The good news? You can go very conservative and minimally and it will still work just fine. I would consult directly with one of the guys mentioned before you act and have them help you and probably supply you.

I hope I haven’t added confusion and trepidation here, just trying to be sort of a devil’s advocate that has built and had my nose into a good number of engines, mostly Olds, Chevy and 3 Pontiacs with Olds being hands down the trickiest to exercise options on the build. I wish I knew more about the G block 400 but I don’t.

No matter what path you take, I’m rootin for your success!

​​​​​​….

 

No offense taken, all is good. (I've been around forums long enough to understand tone is contingent on the reader)

The initial (and still somewhat constant) goal of me getting this car was to save it from the barn it was in. Get it back to original (or close to it) and enjoy it for a couple of seasons, then sell it. I am out of my wheelhouse in anything non-Mopar, but I have a long family history with Oldsmobiles so I'm not looking at it solely as a flip opportunity. The car deserves to be out and seen, and with the rarity it is..it should be as close to how it came as possible.

I had asked about .060", and he seemed hesitant but again-hadn't checked thickness. If this was another G block but not original to the car, yeah I'd fight to do more to it for sure. Ive just never taken the "restoration" direction so it's all new territory..Ive always just had the "roadkill" mentality.

The rods didn't look that great when we got them out, as we had to pound the heck out of them/pistons since they were so stuck in the bore. I'd seen on here a few places that aftermarket rods don't fit, but the common thing to do is Pontiac rods and Mopar pistons/rings..but it's just weird enough I'd need to be sure in what I'm ordering.

I'm planning on sending each a PM this morning, now that I can dedicate a bit more attention to doing so. Fortunately the assembly shop has pretty much said they would use my parts to put it together (been down that road already with a SBM) so I feel a bit more confident in knowing I can get what works best instead of just what works.

 

Appreciate your dedication to originality (in this case) and determination to make things right. Also your willingness to document this journey. I for one am very interested to see what you come up with!

Most of us are just offering opinion gained from our own experiences. You seem to require more and I applaud your desire to do a quality build. But for hard engine building knowhow, listen to guys like @cutlassefi or the others mentioned above. I'm sure your guy knows his stuff but he doesn't sound like an Olds specialist and I bet he'd be willing to defer to one.

 

After much dialogue with a few different members via PM's, I called the shop this morning to verify what size pistons I was ordering and he seemed a bit concerned as to why I was going with a Mopar piston. He is going to do some digging to see if he can find an appropriate Olds piston. At this point, I feel a bit like my hands are tied as I don't want to cheap out or cut any corners as this is a numbers block, but I know that I'm not more knowledgeable than someone who does this for a living and don't feel right telling him what to do or not to do. I also don't want to come right out and say "finish my block because I'm taking it somewhere else since you're taking too long" as A. He's never done me wrong in the past dealings, and B. It'd only slow him down more I'm sure.

I'll let him do some digging over pistons (again, I'm not looking to build a race motor-just something OE standard with cam) and from there I'll get the rods to make sure they match up.

Beyond that, it puts me back to the intake/carb decision..which I'll stress over once the piston/bore debacle is over with.

 

So, I was expecting to be called regarding what he found out by Tuesday morning on the pistons (his words to me) however I never got one.

Called a handful of times yesterday and didn't get an answer, called today a few times and didn't get an answer. Left work and drove down to walk in and the doors were locked.

I know him being the only one-if he's sick he won't come in..but no notice on the door either. Seeing as how he runs everything on paper and is by himself, I'm really concerned for how I'll get my block and heads back if something happens that prevents him from reopening. It's pretty odd, even if he's just sick and unable to come in that there wouldn't be a returned phone call, a note on the door, something..

Really trying to be positive on this, but also low key freaking out as its an original block

 

New update...

After talking with a few people, I was able to confirm he's down and almost out with Covid. Obviously priority 1 is his health and safety, so needless to say I'm not going to be pressing for updates on work until I hear he makes it and is back in the swing of things.

Worst case, he doesn't make it and I'll need to figure out how to get in there and get my block/heads. He runs the place by himself, and is old school (pen & paper/memory) so hopefully valvetrain is near the heads, and main caps are near the block.

If it weren't the original engine, I probably wouldn't be nearly as worried about it

 

Hope your guy gets better and is soon well enough to resume work on your 400. Best of luck.

 

brotherGood, where in Ohio are you located? I spent most of my earlier years in and around the Cleveland area and still have some good contacts there. I recently had a friend of many years up there pass from complications of Covid. We still have to be careful!

 

Urbana. North of Dayton, West of Columbus, amidst the cornfields.

Yeah, just had a guy I worked with years ago pass away from Covid pneumonia and Dad is currently fighting with it

 

Sorry hear this. My motor took 11 months finish. I originally went local, thinking it would take less time and money. The internal balance is ridiculous by itself. It probably would have been less or the same with shipping and had a dyno attached from Mark Remmel. He is a one man show as well, thank goodness he hasn't been struck down. Is it an age thing or a reluctance to vaccinate? It is both here.

 

Just be ready to go grab parts if he dies since you'll never get them back if you don't move fast. There are tons of stories of shops going under and people losing numbers matching engines to creditors.

 

I dont know his stance on the vaccine, but he is an older fella.

Yeah, I've been trying to do what I can to get a heads up on if/when things go south. That's my concern..losing the numbers matching stuff due to an extenuating circumstance

 

Finally, a bit of good news out of this...

The owner is back in the shop today letting everyone know why he was out unexpectedly. He was very apologetic over everything, but appreciated the fact that I acknowledged the fact its not like he intentionally went out and contracted it (almost to sound like maybe others didn't care to hear his apology, sadly). He's going to try to get the block finished up this week, and figure out where things are with the heads (he has a helper on those, who's rarely ever in). With that, worst case (provided the time line is accurate) I'll have the block and heads over to the other shop for assembly and dyno by Thanksgiving.

Just glad he made it out okay. Regardless of my stuff, I'm tired of hearing about people I know not making it back from this mess.

 

Glad to hear that he is back on his feet. Did you find a set of pistons?

 

I thought I was in the ballpark, but when I called him to verify he seemed to think he could find some that'd be right and were for an Olds rod. He said he'd look and call me that night or in the morning-and at that point thats when he went radio silent due to Covid.

I used the measurements @cutlassefi gave me and found a SBM piston, but he (machinist) was thrown off when I told him it'd need to have the pin holes on the rods bored out .004" for the Mopar pin.

 

Just called for an update on the engine. Hes putting the sleeve in now, then will need to finish honing the block but is intending on getting the block back to me this week to start on the bottom end. Heads have been checked, they're good. Currently in the midst of the valve job, but as in & out as the guy doing the heads has been, I don't have a date on them yet.

Depending on how things shake out, I may just take the heads once I get the block (provided the valve job hadn't been started) and have the assembly shop finish everything else up.

 

Called and talked pistons today. When he went down with Covid, the last thing we talked about was piston choice so he could get them in to double check hone against the piston. At that time, I brought up the pistons I found with the help of @cutlassefi and he shot them down due to the different pin size. We spoke today about pistons and he said of all his "go-to's" the only one that had anything was Egge but they didn't have any rings. I brought the Mopar piston idea back up, and we compared dimensions and he seems a bit more open to that idea. He's going to do some digging on those, while waiting on one last company to call him back. The pin size difference isn't that drastic, and once I explained that to him he agreed it wasn't much and wouldn't be an issue getting that taken care of.

While I may not end up with the block this week, I'm fairly optimistic with 2 days in a row with forward progress, ha.

 

I’m sorry but you may have misunderstood me. I never recommend the Egge’s. They’re crap and are now even more expensive than before.
My recommendation would be to bite the bullet and buy the correct custom piston. You’ll be happier in the end.

 

I'm trying to steer clear of the Egge's. He didn't seem thrilled with them, but he's used them for rebuilds when there aren't other options and the customer doesn't seem to be concerned.

 

One thing nice about going cheap on rebuild parts..........you'll have saved enough money for doing it over right the second time ?

 

I'm not building a race car, and from my understanding the pistons we'll be going after if non-Olds parts will be used to finish the hone..meaning the walls will be fitted to the piston/rings.

Not sure what dropping 3 times that amount on custom pistons would gain me when it's literally just going to be a cruiser, but its not the first time I've been called ignoring on a forum before.

If this engine needs a rebuild, my hope is either I'm gone and my kid has to do it, or it's been sold and someone else would need to do so. I can't see it needing anything in the near future, otherwise someone who's reputation is on the line wouldn't let me use it.

 

So you can get a set of pistons and rings for less than $300.00?

 

I remember we had discussed custom pistons previously, but for some reason thought they were much more expensive than that. As of now, Olds pistons/rings are unobtainable at that price. I'm not sure decent pistons would be the same price, but as we had discussed previously I'm not looking at cost as the decision maker as much as I am quality and availability. Considering he's had the block since May, I really was looking for something off the shelf so he didn't have a reason for another excessive delay.

I'll try to find through our messages where we discussed custom slugs and refresh my memory.

 

What’s the difference between an Egge or a Badger cast piston and a factory Olds cast piston?

nothing that I know of besides maybe a slightly shorter compression height

 

That’s not the point. Egge’s today are almost as much as a decent forged custom piston. Why bother with the Egge.

 

Egges and Badgers are on EBay all the time for $300

No one in their right mind would pay the same as a forged custom piston.

this guy made that clear.

 

That took about 1 minute to find.