Hi all, so both of my heads are off. I see no significant wear of the cylinder walls. The ridges are barely there. Matter of fact its hard to tell if thats just a little carbon buildup. I can see all of the top compression rings. On the effected cylinder, its a little harder to see the ring. I'm wondering if that's just because it's at top dead center. The exhaust valve for that cylinder is much more white in color, all of the others are more rusty in color. From what I can see of the seats they look perfect but of course they are all closed. That exhaust valve also is the only one that has carbon buildup traveling into the seat. From what I can see the umbrella seals "look" ok but of course they are really hard to see with the springs on. Makes me still wonder what those rubber chunks I found were from. The head gaskets were rusted through in the thicker sections like where the coolant goes into the block passages so I assume they wouldn't have held on for too much longer anyway. Any input at this point would be appreciated as always, thanks.

 

If you pour a liquid such as parts cleaner or diesel fuel into the combustion chamber you'll probably see it leak past the valve. The valve that is white has been running leaner and probably has a burned valve face and/or seat.

If the valve seals look good they probably aren't original, change them anyway.

Be certain to thoroughly protect the cylinders from rusting, oil them really well.

I haven't read every post, what is the timing chain condition? Don't overlook that.

 

Thank you sir, the timing chain cover is behind the engine mount because it's a Toronado. I'd have to pull the engine which might be coming up. This is all over excessive smoke out of the engine not really much out the exhaust, and loss of compression in that cylinder.

 

 

 

Hi all, so since I'm having a shop do the valve job, do I need to be concerned with preload and valve lash even though I'm changing nothing else?

 

Apparently if I support the engine and just take off the mount, then I can check the timing chain!

 

The chain can often be inspected with a borescope through the fuel pump mounting hole, I don't know if that is feasible though on a Toro. You're looking for a nylon toothed gear, if the upper/cam gear isn't nylon teeth over aluminum it has been replaced and you should be good to go. It should be, hopefully someone who knows will chime in
If you go through the work of pulling the front cover replace the chain and both gears no matter their condition.

The heads should be ready to install from the machine shop. You could ask them to vacuum test the valves while you are there, it takes under five minutes.

 

Yes no problem to get to the fuel pump. Tomorrow ill test the valves for leaks. What liquid would you suggest?

 

Diesel fuel and outdoors, they're going to leak. If you're getting a valve job done the machine shop should leak test them after assembly. They put a rubber disc over the combustion chamber and apply vacuum through a port in the center of the rubber disc to see if it holds. This can also be done before the valve work to see and understand it.

 

Does anyone know a good trick to clean the tops of the pistons without getting gunk on those top compression rings? I just finished the cleaning for the head gasket on the drivers side.

 

What did you use on the head gasket surface to "clean" it ?

 

Is the piston in cylinder #5 chipped/gouged? How was #5 compression?

 

A scotch brite like disc on an air tool. I took it down to the point that I can still see the factory machine markings. Not a very aggressive pad so it took 2 days. I didn't want to go the route of putting a solvent on it because I didn't want a solvent to make its way into the rings.

 

No thats just carbon buildup that is peeling off. It somewhat has been since I opened it up. I assume that's happening because of the oil I coated the cylinder walls with. The compression was 30 but the exhaust valve is very obviously burned. You can see it in a few pics I posed earlier. If you mean that little notch on the left side of the pistons, thats supposed to be there on the factory pistons.

 

Was the factory steel shim gasket on it?

If it was, you should try to find one original gasket to put back on. If you go with the typical fel pro ones , you’ll see a 10 to 20 lbs compression less than the other bank.

to leak check the valves you pour the fluid in from the port side, not the camber side. Face exhaust ports up and fill to just above top of valve or half fill the port. if you don’t get leakage on that bad cylinder, then it’s probably a stuck ring. you’ll be in the same situation after the valve job

if that exhaust valve was sealing ok after testing and actually looking at the valve seat and valve face. You shouldn’t even put the head back on.

 

Hi so here I'll put these up again for reference. So you can see both the exhaust and intake valves on the affected cylinder are very different in color than all the rest. Even the valves on the other head look like these left three. I haven't preformed the leak test yet. I got covid for the first time.

See here the carbon is building up right in the seat. So this is just going to be as close to stock build. Are you saying its not necessary to plane the bottom of the head? Because if not than I won't. Yes they were the factory steel gaskets, they weren't in terrible shape either. Also I tried to see if I could fit the thinnest feeler guage past the rings and I could not.

 

you need to pull the valve to check the seat in the head and the valve to see the condition and if it’s burnt


stop trying to guess by the colour..pop the valve out. but first pour fluid in the port. the heads may not need surfacing…don’t do what you did to the block, to the heads…that’s gonna kill the seal. that chamber is oil soaked, not gas/carbon.

steel shim gaskets can be reused..I’ve done it many times. clean the surfaces first and then spray both sides with Permatex ultra copper

 

Ok yes I'll test them, remove the valves and then look at the seats. I can't reuse the existing head gaskets, they were both stuck and both have rips in them now from when I took them off plus they got bent pretty good. What do you use to clean the heads them with? Do you think there will be any trouble now with the seal to the block?

 

I should have what you want. I should have the engine this week. I will get you some pics when I get it.
If your still looking for one.

 

Hey all, so I just got my heads back from the machine shop and they're lookin good. I went with the hardened valve seats. The guy was very reasonably priced. Steel valve stem seals, there is rubber only on the stem and then that is wrapped with a spring. I'm looking for advice on a good head gasket. Any pointers and where to order it?

 

Felpro head gasket 8171PT1 available from RockAuto.com and many other sources. Be aware that this head gasket and most other readily available head gaskets are thicker than the original steel shim gasket which has been out of production for many many years so will slightly lower your compression from the original.

 

Thank you sir, and then I've heard that sealent is not necessary, is that true? I wound up going with the hardened seats because the seats were worn. They were milled and shimmed also.

 

No sealant required with the Felpro head gasket. The block deck surfaces and the cylinder head surface must be as clean as you can possibly make them and most definitely free of any oily residue. Head bolts must have the threads oiled to attain proper specified torque; not necessary to be dripping sloppy with oil, just a good film, It is good practice to also place a film of oil on the flat of the head bolt where it contacts the cylinder head.

 

So I've noticed that one of my valve covers rocks slightly when I place it on the head with no gasket. I placed it on a flat table and it does the same thing. Has anyone encountered that before? If so how did you fix it?

 

Hey all so the engine is nearly back together now. The next step is to adjust the timing. My timing tab has many marks on it. Question is which one do I use in conjunction with the line on the harmonic balancer?

 

Look closely, there's a 10 and a 0 on the tab. They represent 10 degress BTDC and 0 degress.

 

Here's how it looks

So its not like others ive seen with the degrees etched in.

 

The degrees are etched in. They show 10 degrees BTDC, 5 degrees BTDC, and 0 degrees. Right now your mark on your balancer is lined up to approximately 6 degrees, maybe 6.5 degrees, BTDC on the tab.

 

Oh I see what you mean now. Was just confused because I saw no actual numbers. Ok thanks a bunch!

 

So I has everything hooked up, next step was the timing. I filled the radiator with coolant and I discovered the water port at the intake to head on the front drivers side is leaking out the top. Is there any quick fix to this? I assume not but just asking because I took the bolts out and this intake is siliconed real good on here. Or in the case I have what is the best way to get a freshly cured intake off. Thanks a million for any replies.

 

Not sure why you would remove the bolts if it leaked ? I would have probably tried to re-torque the bolts. Its usually a good thing to do after 24 hours,

 

Yes sir I did do that 3 times waiting a day in between each time. On the heads and on the intake. I then torqued the intake again after leak bumped up to 40 lbs and it seemed to slow it down but not stop completely. The CSM says 35 lbs so didn't really want to exceed that. It is a minor leak bit a leak just the same.

 

Thats good. You likely have an intake manifold problem. Is it the stock intake manifold ? Was any machining done to the intake side of the heads or intake manifold ?

 

No only the bottoms of the heads were machined.

 

Is there any way that the head can be slightly misaligned? I know it has the tabs but just thought I'd ask incase anyone has run into that.

 

Well the problem was the black silicone that came with the gasket was compromised. It's still sticky in consistency after

You can see where it ran down the tray slightly.
more than a week.

 

Hi does anyone know where I can get the factory engine oil dipstick? Of all things I'm having some trouble locating one. The intake is back on. This time I used permatex ultra black. There is a big difference in the strength of that silicone over the red. It also seems to have cured just fine. Used alcohol to clean the surfaces this time instead of parts cleaner. Maybe that made the difference idk.

 

Im happy to report that the top end rebuild was majorly a sucess. Nothing leaks, way more power. The occasional pinging it had has seemingly ceased. There is no longer a miss. New NGK spark plugs gapped .035. The engine does still push smoke from the breather but not nearly as much. I installed an oil catch can between the PCV valve and the carb. It does catch oil. So there is an amount of blowby but at least its not carbonizing on the backs of my valves now since the oil cant make it to the carb and intake. The timing was extremely high so I set it to 7.5 per the CSM. it must have been around 20. The issue now is the points. I put new ones in because the old set's rubbing block was worn off and the dwell screw spring was fully compressed. Now the new rubbing block is wearing at a fast pace. It disabled me twice because it ran so bad. When I set the gap at 19 and adjust dwell to 30 the car is a tourque monster. Obviously when the rubbing block wears enough it no longer hits the cam lobe. My question is why is that happening? I used a thin film of distributor cam lube. Is there a break in period? The CSM doesn't mention that as far as im aware. I drove the car around town today with no problems but yesterday I encountered problems within ten minutes of driving, readjusted, then drove about 40 minutes more before it happened again. The second time I was driving on the highway for about 20 minutes after crusing around town then had to adjust again. Then drove back home on backroads no problem. It runs strong until it doesn't.

 

What brand points are you running ? Points should need adjustment every YEAR or two.