61Bat

I have a stock 394 low comp 2 bbl in my 61; assuming it is completely stock with 68K miles. It runs very well (heats up sitting in traffic to 220+....but nothing scary....yet. I plan on having the radiator boiled out/re-cored if necessary) doesn't smoke but I haven't done a leakdown or compression test....as of yet.


I'm looking for some mild performance upgrades, namely converting to dual exhaust and maybe a 4 bbl or a cam? It has the stock slim jim and its very clean so I think it may have been rebuilt at some point. Should I leave well enough alone as I like the drivability or is there any HP hiding here I can find "inexpensively" or without getting too deep in the engine. All I see for induction seems to be dual quad manifolds or trips, I'm not against them necessarily but I don't want to sacrifice reliability either, this is a cruiser, not a race car. That will come later.....


BTW I don't have unreal expectations, the car I sold before I bought my Olds is a 69 GTO with a 427 BB Chevy w a 6-71 on Methanol and a 5 speed. This car will never be that but I'd like to be able to peel the skins once in a while. Thanks guys.

Lee_A

I'd start by sending the distributor to Dave Ray for his "HEI" conversion. http://davessmallbodyheis.com/ With a HEI module firing the spark plugs, you can open up the plug gap an extra 10 or 15 ten-thousandths, and that will probably pick you up a few HP.


To both free up power AND help the low-speed cooling, I'd install an electric fan such as a shrouded Flex-a-lite Blackmagic https://www.summitracing.com/parts/flx-188


To control the fan, I would use a pulse-width modulation controller from DC Controls http://www.dccontrol.com/constant_te...ontrollers.htm


I've been using these controllers on various projects for the last 8 years, and have had zero problems with them. I've tried other controllers from several different suppliers, and have had failures with all of them - DC Controls is the ONLY controller I've seen that is totally reliable.


The only caveat to buying from DC Control is that you HAVE to be patient, as it will probably take 6 weeks from the time of order until you get the controller. The owner, Brian, is a one-man show. He makes and THOROUGHLY tests EVERY unit himself. It is worth the wait.

olds 307 and 403

There are tons of multi carrb intakes for sure. Even with a stock intake, dual exhaust and distributor recurve, should make a nice difference.

61Bat

So if I go single 4bbl what year intake manifolds will work? Will an intake for a 371 fit? Not a lot of information out there for these engines it seems....and yes I've used the search feature.....

redoldsman

You might want to give Tony at Ross Racing a call. He is a good guy. Here is the website.

http://rossracingengines.com/c/11/ol...early-catalog/

Charlie Jones

My parts book shows all 59 to 62 four barrel manifolds the same . Part # 581389.

You will probably get the most bang for your bucks with adding dual exhaust .
If your right side is in good shape you can block off the crossover inlet on the RH manifold with a homemade plate and get a muffler shop , with a pipe bender, to make left side exhaust for you. Manifold is the same.

I know you don't want to go too far , however the most HP can be gained by installing high compression pistons and a Starfire cam.

Charlie Jones

A 750 Street Demon ( or any other aftermarket carb) will not work with a slim jim. Due to a lack of a proper linkage connection.
Also the OP's stock intake is a 2 barrel.

2blu442

I believe I've got a 1962 4bbl stock intake. If that would work for you send a PM or email with your shipping address and I'll let you know the total costs including shipping from Southern Oregon. I can also send you some photos of the part. John

Tedd Thompson

Probably the most bang for your buck would be to put a lower rear end underneath your car it's probably a peg leg anyway. Back in the day when I had a 63 holiday high compression 2 bbl 394 it would roast the tires on demand. But the Slim Jim wouldn't hold up and gave me fits. If you would like to read about the first generation Old's engines and old speed equipment here is a thread from the H.A.M.B. that I always enjoy, also helps if you are looking for antique parts that you don't know what will fit what..... Lost in the fifties ....Tedd

Tedd Thompson

Oops forgot the link, here it is..... Tedd http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/t.../#post-1661960

D. Yaros

I have a '62 with the same engine/tranny. My question is why you want to beef it up, or what do you expect from the car after having done so?

Given the low comp engine your options are more than a bit limited. Yes, the 4 bbl will make a difference. Having said that, I must tell you that in city driving my 2 bbl low comp 394 is lucky to get 10 mpg. I suspect a 4 bbl will get even less.

I would also say I am more than satisfied with the throttle response/performance of my 2 bbl when i put the pedal to the metal.

What I am saying is, other than the dual exhaust I do not know that you will ever take advantage of other "performance upgrades," and your money might be better spent on other things like appearance items. Just my opinion ... .

TripDeuces

For multiple carbs you can start with these:

http://www.offyparts.com/index.php/c...81024cff8388a5

http://vintagespeed.com/

http://hotrodcarbs.com/

Tedd Thompson

Doubt the low compression or the cam would support a bunch of carbs. Unless you are going just for looks why not just make a cruiser out of it? lots less cost and the money you save could be put towards the exterior/ interior that people always look at.... Just my thoughts... Tedd

Don R.

I'm with Dave and Tedd, the expense of seriously hopping up the motor may not be worth it when you consider limiting factors like the transmission. Changing the rear axle ratio will get you more seat-of-the pants zoom if you don't care about gas mileage, although realistically that's always a joke with these cars. I would probably go to a stock 4-barrel setup with dual exhaust and leave everything else alone.

61Bat

That's probably the route I'll take adding a single 4bbl and dual exhaust. Tried to contact the gentleman about the HEI conversion and he did answer me initially saying he would get back to me......still waiting so I'll probably give him a call.


If you read my original post what I was looking for were simple upgrades without getting into the internals. A cam swap is no big deal but it looks like no one has any type of "modern" grinds for this engine. I'm still trying to find as much info as I can on the early Olds engines as far as interchangeability and parts availability.


I will probably be pulling the engine this fall to seal up the leaks and beat out the dented oil pan, its taken some pretty hard hits. I think eliminating the crossover will be a big benefit simply because it won't heat up the oil by crossing under the pan!


Anything else I should check when I pull it? Is it possible to pull the pan with the engine in the car if I jack the engine up?


I have to ask on the drivers side exhaust is there enough clearance with the stock starter? I know there has to be but damn, it looks like it will be close.


Also my tailpipe crosses over the top of the frame in the rear wheel well and my 15" tire shows some rub marks. Is it possible to route the tail pipe over the axle or does it have to be routed like this?

Tedd Thompson

Doubtful if you can worm the pan around and off the engine without pulling the engine, it's just very tight down there and if the oil in the pan has held up for 50 years with the orignal cross over it will probably last another 50 with a clean up and a re in stall ....Tedd

Don R.

A lot of people won't agree with me but what is wrong with the stock points ignition? Like so many other things, if all of the parts are in good condition and it works why automatically change it? High quality replacements parts are still available for the most common type of GM points system, it is simple to adjust, and unless you put 12,000 miles a year on your car it will be trouble free for a long time - end of sermon.


Not sure exactly how your tailpipe is routed but if you use a custom exhaust shop they can make it fit whatever you want. I had a system installed on my 63, I mounted a very wide set of tires on and they worked around it, no clearance issues.

61Bat

Thanks for sharing the photos Don. Are the frames of your 63 and my 61 essentially the same? I see how they followed the frame so it doesn't encroach in the wheel well at all.


I think my biggest problem is that I'm anxious to modify this car to make it "mine" but yet not butcher it or change anything that doesn't need to be changed. At first I thought id do an engine swap and disc brakes but probably not now. I still want to do some different wheels and switch them back and forth now and then.


The interior is definitely getting a makeover though and some exterior chrome plating and weather strip. Best source for weather stripping?


Also considering doing a four speed swap.

2blu442

Well it looks like I goofed. I've got parts from I believe a 1962 394 and a 1964 394. Since the numbers on my intake don't match what Charlie posted I'm guessing this is from the 1964. For those of you who know, would you please confirm if this will or will not fit 61Bat's car? 61Bat, if it won't fit your car I'd encourage you to create a parts wanted thread to see if any members here do have what you need. John

DSCN6723.jpg

DSCN6726.jpg

DSCN6722.jpg

Don R.

I'm not sure about the frame. My 63 has a full perimeter frame with the rails under the rocker panels, is yours like that or do you have the heavy "X" center frame?


I got all the weatherstripping for mine at Fusicks.

61Bat

Yep, 61 I believe is the first year for the perimeter frame, four wheel coils and the four link rear suspension.


The car runs really well aside from a weird lag shifting into second so I really don't like running it full throttle through that shift cycle. The car shifts fine otherwise (I'm attributing a lot of this to the infamous slim jim) and the trans appears to have been rebuilt because its so clean but honestly this car is unbelievably clean everywhere underneath. There might be some gunk and dirt but there is absolutely no rust. There is clean bare metal under some of the gunk I've cleaned off.


I'd like some downshift power from third to second and maybe a little off the line grunt. I'm thinking the smaller primary's of a 4bbl will give me better throttle response and mileage and the secondary's a little more kick when I punch it. I'm still tempted to do a set of trips but I worry about the trans linkage. Hopefully the duals will help I cant see how they wont I've got single exhaust with a muffler and a resonator and it sounds like a Hoover vacuum cleaner when you get in it. I'm not sure what gears are in the rear yet and I have no tach. The spedo is 10 mph off at 65 reads 75 but seems comfortable at that speed. It feels like a great highway car for sure and when I add an inconspicuous (as possible) cruise control I want to do some road trips in it.


The "plan" for now is to make a sort of "phantom" Starliner bubbletop that they never made.....buckets, console but keep the crank windows and no side trim.......for now, might duplicate in paint but I really like the solid black. I took it to a small local show at a little restaurant by us and the car generated a lot of interest. There is an all Oldsmobile show in St. Louis at the St. Louis Transportation Musuem sponsored by the Archway Olds club Sept. 25th and I plan to be there.


http://transportmuseumassociation.or...nstance_id=218

61Bat

Sooo as a total 394 noob, I've gotta ask, is there any such animal as an aluminum single 4bbl intake? I've seen literally everything but! 2bbl, triple 2's, dual quads, six two's and supercharger.....but no single 4's. Somebody call Edelbrock......they make stuff for FE Fords, they've gotta have a market here somewhere.......

NAS Backyard

I just did a crazy build (very costly) on my 394 ,Pertronix ignition conversion, dual exhaust, ported out the stock 4 bl manifold to match the ported out heads cut the metal flap off the valley pan, Installed a Cliff Ruggles Q Jet using a massaged adapter, High compression forged pistons Camcraft cam from Charlie, Muncie 4 speed with Gear Vendors OD and a 3:42 gear. It goes !, I wanted to do it for the challenge and it has been fun ,but don't waste too much money on a 394 if you really want to go fast in a 4200 lb car. That Slim Jim was made for a 394's torque curve for sure. I'm still dialing my engine in.It hasn't reached it full potential due too 1 too many shims on my hydraulic release bearing. Runs 165-190 tops in 100 degree weather with a 3 row aluminum ebay radiator. Good Luck

Don R.

The first to second shift lag is normal for the Slim Jim due to an enormous ratio gap between the gears magnified by the "Accellerotor" higher stall speed in first. With a stock 4 barrel setup, duals and a 3.42 gear which is the basic Starfire package your offline and downshift performance should improve dramatically. The first gear setup will give you burnout potential if you want it but I would also question the effects that may have on trans life.

61Bat

So....just an update because I hate dead end threads. As of now I've put true dual exhaust on the car with only a pair of Cherry Bombs on the rear for mufflers. More on that later.


Next I installed a 61 four barrel intake I got from mrolds88 on here (thanks again Greg!) with the correct water neck, kickdown linkage and the carb. I ended up sourcing a 64 Olds 4GC that is rebuilt.


Ignition I left stock still looking to get a Pertronix ignition though.


The results in my opinion are well worth the effort. Car starts better (all correct choke hookup) idles smoother and has overall better drivability. Noticible improvement in fuel economy but I have yet to take an extended drive to document it. I was getting around 9-10 mpg.


So the exhaust.....the car is actually quieter with the 4 bbl. Also, with the Cherry bombs, when I decelerated the exhaust would pop and cackle. It was cool but a little obnoxious after a while. I'm not sure if there was excessive fuel in the exhaust, the plugs read normal, but sure enough it doesn't do it at all now. Car sounds really good at an idle and cruising I was ready to put another pair of mufflers on it if it was too loud but I really like the sound its muscular but not offensively loud. Sounds like a good strong V8. Pics later.

Oldskeeper

Did you use the 63/64 dual exhaust manifold?
Steve

61Bat

Used the stock manifolds.

I also forgot to mention the slim jim shifts better too!

As for performance "numbers" I don' have any. I wish I would have before and after dyno' it on a chassis dyno. What I do know is now it will light up one tire and spin until it shifts into 2nd then downshifts back into first. Now I need a limited slip!