Question for everyone, if a generator starts smoking, possibly from a bad voltage regulator and you replace the VR, is the gen still good to use?

 

From here I can't see the windings or anything else, but my guess is once the smoke is out, very hard to get it back in.... Tedd

 

Depends. No definitive way to answer the question based upon smoking alone. Is it a generator or an alternator? What make, model & year vehicle? What model of generator/alternator? Not trying to be flippant, but if it works it works, if it doesn't then we can provide more diagnostics to troubleshoot further.

 

it’s a 55 olds super 88 and it’s a generator which I opened today and everything looks in tact no broken wires or brushes, anyways I put in an alternator today to see if it would work and it did but then I shut the car off and tried it again and didn’t work. Am I supposed to bypass the regulator cuz the guy at Napa said the alternator I showed them has an internal regulator which I didn’t know. If it’s my voltage regulator that’s the problem, should my original generator still be fine?

 

 

A generator does not have an internal VR (Voltage Regulator). If you replaced an original generator with an alternator then you need to be certain of two things: (1) The alternator you install in your car should be an alternator which uses an external VR - just as your original generator was using an external VR. (2) Install the original generator exactly as it was wired using the external VR and see if the generator operates without smoking. If the issue (whatever it was since you haven't said what issue there was to begin) was the VR, the generator might very well still be fine. Reinstall the original generator. Curious how you determined the VR was bad. I'm not quite following.

I guess my basic question is this: Why did you replace the VR?

 

NOTE: Do yourself a favor. Remove every nut & bolt and wire brush every metal post and the underlying metal where any wire leads to & from the generator & alternator. Clean (sandpaper or wire brush) the end terminals of each of the wires. Often times a GEN/ALT/VR lose their ground(s). Your ground side is the most important side of the circuit, but cleaning each metal attachment post, nut, bolt & wire end terminal (positive & negative) will go a long way in helping you to drive a good charging circuit.

 

Let me try this explanation a little differently which may assist in addressing whatever issue you're having which may have resulted in the initial smoke from the generator. Invariably, the far greatest contributor to smoking, in this case generator, is an increase in resistance in the ground wiring of the circuitry. Something is preventing current from passing through the circuit. This is almost always the result of an increase in resistance along the ground path. This inability to pass current results in the formation of heat - and it can be lots of heat. This heat gets dissipated when you begin to see smoke - the heat has to go somewhere and it begins to melt and heat wires. Therefore, check every wire terminal & post and ensure they're squeaky clean. You find ANY corrosion, get rid of it. If you have to replace ANY wires replace them. Corrosion will impede the ability of the current to move freely in the circuit. Always use the same size wires when replacing wires. New wires CERTAINLY won't harm the circuitry on a 70 years old vehicle.

 

Finally, I'm trying not to beat this to death but instead trying to provide you w/ the best suggestion(s). The ground circuit is ALL metal in your car. It begins w/ the battery cable which attaches to the engine block. That wire and each end terminal post need to be spotless and clean including the wire. Any ground wires which attach to the frame &/or chassis need to be spotless & clean - the underlying metal needs to be metal - no paint, no rust - spotless & clean. The firewall or wherever your VR attaches needs to be spotless and clean. The VR is grounded to metal. Ensure it's attachment point is spotless and clean.

 

If the genny has been smoking it is probably damaged. The wire and brushes being not broken does not tell much. The armature and fields need to be tested for opens, shorts and grounds. Pictures of the inside would have been better than pic of the outside of the genny. You should let a professional have a look at the genny and reg together.

 

ok I understand that. My ground from the block to the battery also has another ground in that same bolt holding my battery ground and I put it there because that’s how it was when I bought the car but it was all rust so I put a new one but someone told me it was pointless so now it’s just hanging there, could that be my issue? It’s that metal one, you’ll have to zoom in

 

ok so my generator smoked once now my battery isn’t charging. So I posted that on here and someone said it’s my voltage regulator but I thought maybe it is my very old generator. So I tried to put an alternator in that has an internal regulator and it worked once and then it just stopped working. But someone said if it has an internal regulator I’ll need to bypass my external one which I’m not sure how to do. Oh and no my generator has not smoked since that one time and I’ve ran my car a few times but it doesn’t charge, and like I said the gen looks good inside nothing broken or out of place. I haven’t replaced the VR yet. I tried hooking up an alternator because someone gave it to me for free and I don’t have the means to go buy a brand new one that’s actually made for my car. That is all I’ve been dealing with best I can explain. Do I have a bad ground somewhere? My gen was fine before I put this new tranny in and the engine tilted back a little and it sat outside for a month with no trans but now it’s in and works. could this ground in the pic be my problem? You’ll have to look close but it’s not connected to anything except the block.

 

The plot continually thickens. If the black wire is your ground wire from the negative (-) battery post to the engine block, that should (most likely) be the only ground wire needed. If the other wire, which appears to be a braided ground strap, is the "other" ground wire you're talking about, exactly where does (was) EACH end attach. You're leaving out some important information - wires don't randomly connect to random locations. They have TWO attachment points - not ONE. I can't speak whether that braided ground strap is an issue. If it's left hanging, who knows if it's touching a hot power (+) wire which could have caused a dead short. If you're going to disconnect one end of a wire, why didn't just REMOVE the wire entirely?

 

What is now installed in your car - an internally regulated ALT? If that is the case, no it isn't going to charge your battery - it's wired incorrectly. As has been previously stated, you have an EXTERNAL VR - you need a generator or ALT which uses an EXTERNAL VR; or, as you suggested, the ALT needs to be re-wired to bypass the EXTERNAL VR - which, you did not do. You state someone suggested you need a new VR; yet, you elected to replace the externally regulated generator w/ an internally regulated ALT. If you don't have the knowledge to understand what you're installing into the vehicle's electrical system - you should take the vehicle to a competent mechanic. Honestly, there's no telling what has happened to your circuitry - you should seek the advice of a professional mechanic.

Sorry, but I'm at a loss. Is this car running but no charging? You state:
Are you saying the car starts & runs, but is not charging - is that currently where you are w/ this?

You know, if someone (most likely w/ some electrical knowledge) stated they suspected the VR was bad, but instead you elected to remove the generator and install an internally regulated ALT - you may have screwed the pooch here.

Get some professional assistance. You can noodle around w/ this more & more, but you're not doing yourself any favors changing out parts for which you don't understand their operation; or, at the very least, you need to perform some research on the difference between a generator & an alternator, and the difference and usage of an internally regulated ALT and an externally regulated ALT. By now it should evident you absolutely must bypass the external VR if you are using an ALT w/ an internal VR.

 

the braided ground isn’t touching anything, it was mounted to a bolt holding the radiator on but I put in a different radiator and never took off the braid ground just left it hanging. Anyways let’s say I remove that braided wire, then should I put my original gen back in and check for bad grounds and bad wires? Like I said after I let it sit for a month without running it then my gen started smoking so something went wrong some where along the line, and I’m trying to figure it out without just going buying new parts I may not need. I did look inside my VR and one of those copper coils has a little burn mark at the end. And I looked under the VR and the two spring coil looking things are in tact but look a little rusty and white like corrosion so I’m not sure, all I know is that everything was fine until starting it up for the first time in a month or so. Could it be the ballast resistor?

 

Yes, it could be the ballast resistor AND the VR. As the plot thickens (w/ regard to the transmission, being tilted, outdoors wet for a month & the most likely state of a bad VR &/or ballast),

So, when you hooked the transmission back up - this is then when the GEN smoked - after which someone suggested a bad VR but you instead changed the GEN to an ALT w/ an internal VR? I have absolutely no clue as to the state of the GEN or electrical circuit. But, at the very least, change both the VR & the ballast and reinstall the original GEN. That will get you back to square one with a new external VR and new ballast. The GEN began smoking for a reason (e.g. heat), where did that heat come from? Trying to push current through a faulty VR &/or ballast? Who knows. But the heat evidently built up enough to make the GEN smoke. All that white "stuff" HAS to be removed. ANY corrosion HAS to be removed. You need sparkling clean wires, terminals & attachment posts.

 

Yeah, that braided wire is/was most likely a ground wire to the frame or chassis near the radiator. There is nothing wrong with establishing another ground to the frame or chassis from the block location. Since I'm not clear from your description the exact attachment location, it's most likely a ground from the block to the chassis. Again, there's nothing wrong with that braided wire used as a ground to support electrical ground continuity through the chassis &/or frame of the car (most likely the chassis). Either use it or remove it.

 

Get some professional assistance. You can noodle around w/ this more & more, but you're not doing yourself any favors changing out parts for which you don't understand their operation; X2
First thing is to decide if you want a generator or an alternator.
If you want the generator you can test the generator while it is on the car. You can't test the regulator unless the generator is working. You can test the generator if the regulator is not working.
If you want an alternator you will need to make the appropriate wiring conections.

 

ok I will do all that. I got the VR last night and I’ll be putting it in soon and I’ll grab a ballast as well and hook up my gen again. During that month of sitting we did get a lot of moisture and snow out here in the desert so who knows. I’m just thinking a wire got moved enough during the trans process and it was already brittle now it’s not good but I’ll look more today. Yay I get to do wire work today, my favorite (not) lol.

 

I’ll remove it because when I bought the car it was mounted from the block to the battery tray but that tray is all rusted and it broke off and I tried to replace it but I’ll just remove it most likely

 

When working on these old beasts (any car really), you're going to find the ground circuit is critical/vital to diagnosing/troubleshooting & resolving electrical issues. So, I won't berate this any longer, you installed the wrong ALT - bad idea. Hopefully, the GEN is not fried. Be really meticulous on visualizing your wiring & cleaning all rust, oxidation, corrosion from every single attachment point - every single attachment point. Good Luck! Report back.

 

ok I will check everything today. Just weird that all it does is sit and now there’s a problem ya know. But thank you again. Yes I’ll let you know what happens

 

IMO, if that braided (ground) wire was attached to the battery tray, that is the absolute worst place it should have been attached. Not sure why anyone would have done that, honestly. A gazillion issues can develop from a ground wire attached to a battery tray. Honestly, it makes more sense to have a solid ground to chassis and frame. If it were me, I'd install the braided ground strap to the chassis - which is most likely the location near the radiator. Since we haven't discussed other ground attachment points on the car, you need (let's make sure you understand this) a solid ground system on the car:
(1) From the battery (-) to the block;
(2) From the engine (or battery) to the chassis; and,
(3) From the engine (or battery) to the frame.

 

The metal on the car contains these mysterious things called electrons. In order to use these (metal) electrons - you need an electrical "circuit" by which current (in the form of free electrons) moves OUT of the battery from the NEGATIVE battery post (ANODE) through the NEGATIVE (-) battery terminal. This then becomes the beginning of your electric circuit. These grounding points are the most critical. This electron flow then returns to the POSTIVE (+) battery post (CATHODE) through the red POWER wire. Clean, crisp grounds are key to a good electric circuit.

 

I understand that and the only one I don’t think I have is one going to the chassis. I do have a small old braided wire going from the block to the frame. I’m not sure why there was one to the battery tray either but it broke off as soon as I touched it and that’s when I put that new braided one on there

 

From the picture it looks like the cable end is resting on that pad on the block and the terminal is not making good contact with the block. You might want to loosen the bolt and turn the cable downward toward the frame and tighten it back up.

 

oh yeah your right I didn’t even think of that ok I’ll try that

 

so on that ballast resistor, will any one work as long as it looks like mine? They do the same thing right

 

It's critical the chassis is grounded - the VR most likely is mounted/attached to the chassis & achieves its ground via a bolt or screw from the VR to the chassis. On a '55 Super 88, I don't know the exact locations (which would have been dependent on attachment points where the chassis attaches to the frame during manufacture). It's possible (feasible) you don't have a separate (dedicated) chassis ground wire if the frame and chassis have continuity between the two. If you're in doubt about the condition of the small old braided wire, please change it to a clean sparkling new braided wire and ensure the attachment points are absolutely clean. Be certain the ballast resistor is installed properly & when you remove the old one, look to see if the old ballast resistor may have rusted, a broken wire, etc. - that wire should not be touching ground. The ballast resistor should only be in contact w/ the (+) power terminal from the IGN SW to the positive (+) side of the IGN coil. You get full voltage (~10V) when starting the car - during ignition (start) the ballast is not used (bypassed) but after the car starts the ballast reduces/limits/regulates a lower voltage sent to the IGN coil.

 

ok well I don’t have the bits to drill thru the chassis so should I put the braided ground back by the radiator or remove it? So how would a ballast make a gen fail then?

 

If that wire was attached to the chassis by the radiator it needs to be attached to the chassis location near the radiator. I did not say a bad ballast would make the GEN fail (anywhere); additionally it depends on if the ballast failed and how it failed. If the IGN wire from the IGN SW to the ballast were to have been grounded (e.g. short-to-ground), the current (amps) would flow to ground at maximum amperage instead of through the intended circuit (to the positive IGN coil terminal post). When the ballast is operating properly, it reduces (regulates) power to the IGN coil after the car starts (generally I believe to almost 1/2 the normal voltage). If you start the car and measure voltage on that ballast wire, if the one side of the ballast wire coming from the IGN switch matches the amount of voltage coming out of the ballast wire (leading to the IGN coil) the ballast is no good OR the negative (-) terminal of the IGN coil is bad since the ballast is dependent on the negative side of the IGN coil when reducing the voltage (meaning the IGN coil must be grounded).

 

ok it makes sense to a point, I’m almost home and I’m gonna check it all out and get back to you thank you

 

My two cents, I've never had a ballast resistor fail in all my years, You can check it by seeing if you have no spark on cranking. You are looking for loss of charging, not spark loss, As mentioned above, my humble guess is the voltage regular or bad grounds. Put the generator back on, check for bad grounds and power at the generator with a multi meter ,then on to the VR. A stuck voltage regulator will cause an over load and Usually toast the generator. I wouldn't buy any parts till you find the problem... Tedd

 

ok that’s what I’ll do and I’m getting spark fine so I doubt it’s the BR as well. I can send you pics if you like, my number is (505) 501-3807

 

Here is the good advice you need to follow. You didn't follow correct advice to begin with and you are chasing ground connections and ballast resister around and getting no where. Either you listen and follow the people who know, or you go round and round and fix nothing. You r choice.

 

well I don’t have money pooring out so I can’t just go get things fixed. That’s why I’m on here asking advice. Getting things fixed is last resort for me. I did find a loose ground from when the engine tilted it’s a braided ground from the back of the block to the fire wall where it was loose so I tightened it back up and put in the gen and nothing still, I’m gonna put in this regulator and see what that does, if still nothing then time to get things fixed I guess cuz I don’t know what else I can do

 

What didn't you understand from Stellar ?

 

I understood everything, I tried the new VR and the gen worked. Will it last that I don’t know, I plan on calling the shop tomorrow when they open

 

Thank you for the advice

 

Cool. So, do yourself a huge favor and check & clean all your grounds & replace/re-install that one chassis ground braided wire near the radiator.