deaddds

I picked up a 37 Olds inline 6 that was rebuilt but sitting approx 10 yrs. The front pulley does not have a nut with which to put a socket on to bar over. It has what looks like a nut where you would have cranked the car from there to start it like the OLD cars did. Since I dont have a crank tool and even if I did, there is no way to hold it against it to turn, any other ideas to safely work the motor? It has a starter/ gen mounted but no coil at this time. Thanks Pat

rustyroger

Take the starter off and turn it using a lever on the flywheel ring gear.
Before you start take the plugs out and put your favourite easing oil down the bores, preferably leaving it for a day or so before you try turning the engine over.

Roger.

tru-blue 442

X2. Good advice.

Tedd Thompson

You might give it a bump with the starter to see if it is infarct seized, that is after removal of plugs and following the advise from above about oil in the cylinders. I have also unstuck a not so badly stuck engine by rocking it back and forth on a concrete serface....May the force be with you....Tedd

Octania

Using the wheels to turn the engine can be effective. Use a high gear, not 1st or reverse. Makes it harder for engine to turn wheels but easier for wheels to turn engine.

"your favourite easing oil "

Gotta love the British language. That's a great term.

Tedd Thompson

As I reread this post of deadds I believe he is working with only a engine long block(not a whole car), if this is the case one can still use the starter to turn the motor over but rocking it back and forth on the concrete, not so much....Tedd

MDchanic

Yeah. Made me think of something else entirely.

- Eric

deaddds

It is a whole car. The driveline was set in place and that's as far as it got. I think in my application Ill try putting it in gear and raising the rear end to turn the wheels and see if it turns.

Tedd Thompson

Is that what we would call put some go easy on it?.....Tedd.

MDchanic

If you raise ONE wheel (open rear end), put it in top gear (OD if you've got it) and put a big breaker bar on a lug nut, you should get some decent leverage.

- Eric

Tedd Thompson

If the clutch will hold, time will tell.....Tedd

rustyroger

Would "penetrating oil" be a better term?.

If lifting a wheel and turning the engine over doesn't work it probably needs attention that requires removing it anyway. Is it a flathead or ohv in a car of that vintage?. I ask because the bores might be free but the valves could be stuck in the guides, if it's a flathead then the engine needs removing, if an ohv just the head needs to come off.

Roger.

MDchanic

Touché.

- Eric

Tedd Thompson

It would be a flathead and you could still just remove the head and punch each valve with a rubber hammer, that is after a liberal application of go easy of your choice. I would still give the starter a shot,only takes a couple minutes to jump off a spar 12 volt, might save a little time.....Tedd

MDchanic

...Or 6 volt.

- Eric

Tedd Thompson

I was aware of the car age but generally when you get an old non running car the battery is toast especially a old 6 volt, a handy 12 volt will let you know if you have other problems, please jump it directly to the starter not through the system....Tedd

deaddds

Hate to ask, but whats the favorite easing oil for this? Marvel Mystery Oil?

MDchanic

The old "12 volts through a 6 volt starter" trick.

Wings 'em right over as long as you don't have to crank for long.

I don't know whether it's "kosher," but some guys used to convert to 12 volts and keep the 6 volt starter, because it did work.

- Eric

Tedd Thompson

As for the easing oil of my choice( I gotta giggle as I typed this) I use a 50/50 mixture of acetone and automotive transmission fluid .

Eric, ya we did that for a lot of VW's that were around back then, change the generator/ regulator and few bulbs and the car was now a 12 volter.

Better yet on old Chevy trucks you could put a 8 volt battery, bump up the regulator so it put out 8 volts and not change anything else, bright headlights and the heater blower really worked for a change...Tedd

rustyroger

Diesel fuel works wonders and is cheap.

Roger.

deaddds

I'll work on this this weekend and post results.

1976Oldswagon

do not use ATF.

ATF is used to aid friction in a trans, not as a lubricant. it is also very thick and does not penetrate as well as mystery oil, or bolt breaker.

fill the cylinders with mystery oil, let them sit overnight, hit it with bolt breaker, let it sit for a few mins, then try to crank the motor.

I started a '68 caddy 472 that had sat for a decade and a half with this method, and with a little persuasion (2 twelve-volt batteries daisy-chained together) we got it to crank.

I know an OHV big block is far from a flathead I6, but the same principals apply.

make sure it has oil in it, and prime the oil system if you can.

sounds like you shouldn't have any problems though. good luck

MDchanic

All well and good, but if you are going to argue you need to cite your sources.

The ATF / Acetone idea comes from an April-May 2007 article entitles "Testing Different Types of Penetrating Oils," in Machinist's Workshop magazine (Volume 20, #2) by Lloyd W. Bender, in which he tested a number of commercial penetrating oils, including PB Blaster and KROIL, in a controlled setting, and found the ATF / Acetone mix to be the best. He used ATF and Acetone because it was the closest he could get to Trichloroethene and ATF, which was an old standby before TCE was banned.

The fact is the ATF / Acetone works and works well, regardless of your teleologic rationalizations about why it should not.

- Eric

1976Oldswagon

ahhh I was always taught ATF does nothing but damage outside of the transmission, and it was NOT a substitute for penetrating oil.

I learned this from this old dude that ran a salvage yard and I never questioned his logic because it made sense.

that being said, I know as a fact that marvel/penetrating oil combo works wonders on an engine that has sat for 10-15 years.

good luck OP!

MDchanic

Yeah, I've learned a lot from "old guys" like that, too, but there's always some stuff they tell you that's totally BS, and it can be hard to pick out which is which sometimes .

- Eric

pete324rocket

Dealing with this issue now,although not an olds motor,it was a running motor that was parked 30 years ago in a barn and last fall tried to turn it over-no go. Always the assumption the pistons stuck-took head off and poured various liquids-diesel-lacquer thinner -gas stabilizer -acetone- brake fluid- after a few weeks the cylinders leaked the fluids out but the point of my story is that I removed the pistons and motor still frozen,pulled bearing caps and ample rust on the crank journals. They can rust too-thankfully I didn't free up motor to grind up this mess! Btw,2 cylinders did not leak down and assumed the pistons seized but came out super easy and motor was not piston seized in my opinion.

deaddds

Success. The plugs were only finger tight so put 2 bottle caps of marvel in each hole. Pulled the pan plug and I think it was only prelube that had settled to the bottom. Put in 5 qts as per the manual and raised one side. Took a little coaxing but the fan blade turned. New ? is in 3 rd gear, I get 3 full rotations with a 16 inch tire to fully cycle the engine pulley. Isn't there a way to figure out what gearing I have in this without pulling the rear end?

MDchanic

Third gear is usually 1:1, and an open rear with only one wheel turning will turn twice as fast as when both wheels are turning, so that would imply a 1.5:1 rear end ratio, which seems a bit steep.

I'd try putting it in neutral, raising both wheels, and turning the driveshaft to confirm the rear-end ratio.

For increased accuracy, turn it ten times, then divide the answer by ten.

- Eric

deaddds

Using this math for dummies, I would be turning the tire again and watching a mark on the shaft right? Whether this makes a differance or not, I raised one side at a time and was able to turn the motor from both sides. I originally counted 1.5 wheel turns to get the belt one rotation but X2 it thinking one rotation would only be 2 of the 4 strokes internally. Is this backwards *** thinking?

rustyroger

You need to be measuring how many times the crankshaft pulley rotates, unless the fan pulley is exactly the same diameter as the crank pulley you will get misleading information.
It's the number of turns the engine makes that will determine the rear end ratio, the fact it's a 4 stroke engine makes no difference.

Roger.

deaddds

OK, I marked the shaft and tire. Raised rear end and turned the tire. 10 rotations = 18.25 roughly drive shaft rotations. So I get 1.825 Is that even a ratio?

MDchanic

So with ONE wheel turning, and the other wheel stationary, the driveshaft turned 1.825 times?

With the driveshaft turning only one wheel, that wheel turns twice as fast, so when you do it the other way around, with only one wheel turning the driveshaft, the driveshaft turns twice as slow (or half as fast ).

That means you need to multiply the driveshaft rotations by 2, so 1.825 x 2 = 3.65, so you have a 3.65:1 rear.

To check yourself, jack up both wheels and rotate the driveshaft with both wheels turning - the driveshaft should turn 3.65 times for 1 rotation of the wheels (or 36½ times for 10 rotations of the wheels).

- Eric

deaddds

Yes. While both wheels were off the ground, I turned the driver side to turn the shaft. The other wheel did not spin while doing this that I saw. That ratio seems reasonable for that year. I'll look it up in my manual to see how close it is to a factory pumpkin. My God, I barely remember to brush my teeth let alone keep math equations straight!