CLcutlass

About to start the body work...new to this and I am finding conflicting stories on the web. Is it etch then body filler or body filer then etch.

or is it ...ditch the etch and use epoxy ??

coppercutlass

Etch primer imo is great. Put etch primer on all bare metal then just grind the areas that need filler. Most fillers nowadays have anti corrosion protectors in them.

coppercutlass

Also I might add don't cheap out on filler. A good filler is not only easier to sand but usually has all the good additives that make the job hold up that much longer.

CLcutlass

Awesome...thanks. Would a 3M filler be considered a good quality filler ?

69442C

Ditch the etch, use epoxy and then filler. Scuff the epoxy before using filler but no need to go through to bare metal. In fact, going to bare metal defeats the purpose of the epoxy (completely sealing the metal), so just scuff it, don't remove it. I'm not familiar with 3M filler and have never seen it in my area or any paint/auto body suppliers I use. Dynalite Gold is the brand I use and it works well. There are other good brands too. Shop at a paint supplier rather than the local auto parts stores to get the better fillers.
Brian

bccan

X2 w/ epoxy down first. In our system a light, nearly transparent coat or two (not heavy) goes down first, abrade, then filler.

CLcutlass

thanks guys....seem to be the same story I got elsewhere. I guess I have to choose.

this is what the dupont tech help told me

The etch primer will go over most finishes and body filler. You will need to seal or prime over it before moving on.

69442C

I think the Dupont Tech you spoke to has been spraying without his respirator. The purpose of an Etch primer is to etch itself into bare metal. In the past, when a panel was taken down to bare metal, the metal was etched with a prep product and then primed. Etch primer eliminated that prep step and did the etch and priming all in one step. So when he is suggesting putting it down over paint and filler.... Epoxy also goes over paint and filler too. Filler can use a standard primer over it and if you do a few repairs and final sand the primer applied over the filler and then sand/prep the paint correctly, all you would need would be a sealer. Epoxy can also be reduced and sprayed as a sealer so it would provide a lot of benefits when used that way. Don't use lacquer primers if someone were to try to sell you any as it shrinks too much. 2 part urethane primers are what is used today for spraying over filler.
Brian

oldsguybry

Taking one look at what Brian did with his restoration I would tend to listen to what he says .

CLcutlass

Awesome thanks...off to find some urethane

ent72olds

Etch is for clean bare metal....can it go over filler? Yes...but epoxy is a better choice. Filler can not go over etch! It can go over epoxy with a good "tooth". 180 grit would be a good choice....

Bernhard

Epoxy over bare metal Asap. We were not to have cars in the white/bare metal over night.If a metal car/ or part was sand blasted/dipped/stripped with sand paper or chemical stripper it was to be in primer same day! Why because Rust never sleeps.
Plastic filler was done on top of scuffed epoxy primer 0 to 1/16" max thickness on panel repair skim coat only this was the shop standard.
The sail panel area/the seam from the roof to quarter needed more plastic filler because of the poor factory seam as much as a 1/4''
Epoxy primer is for the pros that know how to safely apply.
spray booth/down draft booth
clean supplied air to full face mask
Pro paint suite, gloves and boots
Training
You only get one set of lungs

Metal work was done before epoxy or after epoxy this would be based on rust / body damage/ type of repair. There was also temp spot priming that was done to stop flash rusting during the metal work stage of the repair.

Good Luck with your project

Run to Rund

I chose to do filler first, then PPG epoxy. Epoxy is tough and doesn't sand through as easily if you need a little more filler. However, you must color coat within a week or you have to sand the entire job so the epoxy will accept the color. I color coated the same day, which is best. My car needed little filler, just to smooth over welded up trim holes, etc. If your sandng prep work is good, and you got rid of any rust, the epoxy is great, even if you are color painting with acrylic lacquer as I did. That is a mix of old school and new technologies but gives the correct look to the car with a more solid base, imo.

Bernhard

99% of the primers/primer surfacers have to be sanded before the application primer/primer surfacer or paint. The only time that we did not have to was when we used a self etch primer or product like a self etch primer. The self etch was sprayed and a high solid primer went on with in the working time of the product. Some times there was spot priming with epoxy and a high solid went on top but it was always a short window and done per manufacture best practice rules/guide lines.Sealers berfore top coat were not scuffed unless the window was missed. I was not a fan of sealers as my mentors were not fans of them. They felt if the prep was right it was just more product on the surface. More product more that can go wrong/extra money in material and labour. I have been out of the game for a while so things might have changed.


This has not changed paint and primers for the Body shop trade are meant to be sprayed in a controlled environment.
In a spray booth wearing appoved safey gear.

In my area you can rent a booth and they have weekend classes for the weekend bodyman.

You only get one set of lungs, limited brain cell repair.
A lot of these products cause reproductive harm and nervous systeam damage.

CLcutlass

Hi Guys...thanks for the advice. I went with epoxy first and multiple coats of high build primer after. I have a question....when sanding the guide coats I did go down to bare metal in areas trying to get it straight. Do I spot primer with epoxy and go with another high build or just go to the high build coat again.

coppercutlass

Alot of good high build primers can be applied to bare metal.

CLcutlass

thanks....new at this so I am not sure what good is..it is a Nason product at 40 bucks a quart. the can is in the garage now so I dont know the number.

Olds_71_442

I've used Nason before. It's in the Dupont line. Make sure you have a gun with a large tip when spraying it or it'll make an overspray dust or it will be a very rough finish which you'll have to sand completely off.

CLcutlass

Thanks....thats a nice color. What is it ?

Olds_71_442

Mine? It's the code 43 Lime Green Poly or Lime Green Mist Metallic is what they call it nowadays.

m371961

Lots of good info at autobody101.com.

jstrits

I've done all my cars with filler on bare metal, etch primer then and then high build primer to be blocked and primed over and over. been working for me.

Bernhard

Epoxy primer is the Gold standard then hi solid.
Epoxy is the rust protection.
The value and long term plans for the car are major factors in product choice and longevity. Nason is a budget level product as
is Dupont.

TripDeuces

Tried Rage Gold for the first time...fantastic. I epoxy primed, filler on bare steel, re-epoxied.

68442

Just a little Warning about Etch primer. It can NEVER let me say that again NEVER have "body filler" applied directly over it. The two do not get along chemically and the filler will remain soft. As mentioned above Epoxy is the key. In fact i dought there is anybody professionally still using Etch primer. With the current modern primers out today it has really become out dated.

Bernhard

What I find interesting is people wanting to go against tried and true practice.
Metal work, Epoxy primer, filler then hi solid primer was the gold standard back in the early 80's.
I think my instructor was right with his thought process. Stay in one paint product line and minimize product.
Paint company's like to sell product and they don't always play nice together. Sealer is one of the product he never used, I wish I would have taken his advice!
The quality of the materials play a large roll in longevity and overall appearance.
If the metal work is poor and the body work is poor not even the best product will help.
Good luck with your project.

seansolds

[QUOTE=68442;1225077]Just a little Warning about Etch primer. It can NEVER let me say that again NEVER have "body filler" applied directly over it. The two do not get along chemically and the filler will remain soft. As mentioned above Epoxy is the key. In fact i dought there is anybody professionally still using Etch primer. With the current modern primers out today it has really become out dated.[/QUOTE

I started with etch primer then body filler and had great results. I finished painting in 2010 and the body work still looks great today. A good quality product and allow plenty of time for the cure process before recoating and the results should be excellent. I'm on my next project and will proceed the same way.

68442

[QUOTE=seansolds;1225390]Hey, if the wrong way works for ya go for it.

Bernhard

[QUOTE=68442;1225448]Bernhard wrote:
I would ad if you got away with it once don't push your luck.
Its true in a body shop its rare to allow a product to set up more that a few days the space is just to valuable.
I would not put filler on top of anything other than lightly scuffed epoxy primer !!!!!!
We used vinyl wash primer that was applied so thin it was translucent then followed up with an epoxy on a few jobs.
This practice was ditch because it was found redundant and just added to the chemical cocktail.