roblen73cutlass

I did the starting fluid test and when i sprayed it pretty much ran worst and cut out faster so i guess its getting the right amount of fuel, i also tried messing with the air/fuel screws and turned them in about 1 1/2 times and that really didn't do much. I'm pretty lost on why its doing this but i figure i will keep you guys updated.

the car also starts up fine its just that it can't stay running like its trying to run on 4 cylinders after initial start up.

SkylinesSuck

If it ran worse when you sprayed starter fluid into it that might not preclude a fuel issue. That might mean it's already pig rich for some reason. This really doesn't feel like an ignition issue to me. Post a video if you can.

DoubleV

Distributor installed 180 off?

cjsdad

Everything you have posted sounds like a fuel problem. Does your carb rebuilder know what type of float you have? If it is one of the black plastic floats it could be saturating and sinking once you start it up. The float bowl runs dry, the engine dies, the float dries out and it will start again. Once the engine starts, the float sinks and the problem begins all over again. Even a brass float with a hole in it will do this. Immediately after the engine sputters out and dies do you still get fuel from the accelerator pump squirting down the carb throat?

roblen73cutlass

Thanks for the input guys...
SkylinesSuck- that's exactly what i thought running pig rich thats why i turned the air/fuel in a bit should i turn them further?

DoubleV- no i know for a fact the dizzy is good because when i put the new one in it was off and i got it right to the point in ran fine up and down my street but that was like last summer

cjsdad- not to sure about the carb guy he said the metering rods were shot so he replaced those and i got raped for $220 for him to do that and clean it, yes it sounds like a float problem now now that you mention it....and yes i always check for the accelerator pump to be squirting and it always looks fine

roblen73cutlass

Alright so all afternoon i messed with the carb idle mixture screws and i turned them in and backed them out 1 1/2 times, before i touched it they were 6 turns out and right off the bat it got a bit better...along the lines of it not shaking like crazy and it would idle ok for like 10-15 seconds and die out and if i gave it gas to try and clear it out it dies out faster. i tried a few different turns like 2 turns out and 2 1/2 ect and it acted different every time....

BangScreech4-4-2

Boy, you sure have been dealing with this for awhile. If there are no CO members in your area who can lend a hand, maybe you could get the guy who fixed your Q-Jet to come over and help you sort it?

roblen73cutlass

Yes its been going on for a while and i'm really going nuts from it, i'm about to call the guy who rebuilt it if i get some time today...works been killing all my time to sort the car out, and so far no i haven't found anyone in my area but i'm on the right track i just thing the carb needs some sort of adjustment and should be good but i'm not sure what the adjustment is

cjsdad

I re-read this thread just now and had a new thought. Have you checked to see if you have vacuum to the distributor at idle? Is it possible that the distributor was hooked up to manifold vacuum previously so you had much more ignition advance at idle and now it is connected to a ported vacuum source so that it stumbles and when you apply throttle your timing is jumping forward another 15~16 degrees? The problem could also be the exact opposite too. You may have had ported vacuum previously and now with manifold vacuum you have so much timing at idle that the engine stumbles and when you apply throttle you lose timing so fast that the engine dies.

Just a thought or two.

RROLDSX

Sounds like your bowl is emptying. Check your fuel filter isn't blocking your fuel supply or your float needs adjustment.

roblen73cutlass

Good thought, i'll double check all vacuum to the dizzy but i'm pretty sure its all good because the car ran for about 2 months after the new dizzy was installed...its for sure the carb acting funny but i'm not really a guru when it comes to carbs witch is why i thought i took it to a pro...funny thing is before the carb was rebuilt it didn't idle at all and now its just stumbling but still cuts out and it did act different from leaning the mixture screw out

roblen73cutlass

RROLDSX- my fuel filter is good, would a miss adjusted float cause it to stumble and cut out when given throttle? whats the best way to figure that out because i can't trust the guy who rebuilt it adjusted it right

RROLDSX

Check the fuel filter is not in backwards. You have to take the carb apart to check the float adjustment.

roblen73cutlass

Ok filter is good, do i just need to take the top of the carb off?

roblen73cutlass

Why is it when the mixture screws are 2 1/2 turns out it starts idles choppy and right when i try to give it gas it just dies totally and then if i put the screw at 5 out, where i believe it was before it doesn't even start. i am losing my mind...I've never had a car give me this much of a headache.

cjsdad

That sounds a lot like a Chebby I rebuilt once. On initial startup I had the timing retarded so far that it wouldn't run. I then compounded the problem by turning up the idle so far that it was running on the primary venturies. So once I did get it running the air/fuel screws would not change tuning. So after finally getting it to run long enough to adjust the timing I was able to advance the timing enough that I could turn the idle down and eventually adjust the air/fuel screws. I had installed a new cam so all of the tuning settings from before the rebuild were wrong. So once running, I had to develop a whole new tune. Carb, timing, everything. Sounds like after your carb job, you need to start all over as well.

steverw

5 turns out? sounds like way too much to me, Try 1.5 turns out to begin with, start it then adjust one at a time in until it stumbles then out till its smooth. Then the other one. See how that works for you.

roblen73cutlass

Well like you said with your car you installed a new cam witch required the re-tuning process but on my engine witch is all original 54k miles could just a simple carb rebuild throw it that far off?

and yes the screws were about 5 turns out, i had the at 1.5 and 1 i even tried .5 but this is with the car off it dies way to fast for me to get out and mess with the screw. what up with when i give it throttle to keep it alive it does the opposite and dies, that really has me lost

cjsdad

Have you adjusted the idle screw? Check to make sure the throttle blades are just barely open when the throttle is not applied. If the throttle is too far open the air/fuel screws will not make a big difference while turning. If you had manifold vacuum on the distributor with the original carb setup and ported vacuum now, you had much more advance at idle. This would cause a great difference in tuning the engine, so yes, changing the carb can make a huge difference. Do you have a wife or girlfriend that can start the car for you while you move the distributor? That is how I finally was able to make the adjustments on mine to get it running.

Mickeyold442

My hurst was the same after I brought it home. if you have to lay your foot into it to try and keep it running,do a compression test on all cylinders. Mine had 3 low cylinders so only choice was to rebuild. you may be at that point in your project. valves stick and cams loose their lobes down due to normal wear and tear.

roblen73cutlass

I did not really mess with the idle screw yet but i think the blades are in the barely open position. I hooked all the vacuum ports back as they were before, nothing was changed.
i messed with the timing yesterday and just turning it counterclockwise an inch made it not start so i put it back where it was and it started fine, i let it die out and then i advanced it a little did nothing. i had the timing fine when it was running last year so i doubt it changed....somethings whack with the carburetor.

I hope i don't have low compression like your hurst....and i can't even keep it running by putting my foot into it, it just dies when i use any throttle input.

I'm going to give a call to the guy who rebuilt it and see if he has any input

oldcutlass

Ok, lets start over. What is your dwell? What is your timing set to? What is your idle speed? How much vacuum is the engine pulling while its running (even though it's running poorly? Is the choke open or closed? With the engine off, look into the carb, move the throttle linkage to full throttle by hand and see if there is 2 solid streams of fuel spraying in there.

roblen73cutlass

I'm actually not sure what the dwell is, i timed it by ear, idle is around 700 rpm. keep in mind it was running after i installed the new dizzy like two winters ago and i actually installed it 180 off but got it just about perfect after that. I'm not sure about the vacuum i don't have the tool to measure, when i start it the choke cracks open and if i keep starting it and letting it die the choke opens a small amount more never enough where its full open, and yes i see two good streams of fuel with the engine off.

oldcutlass

These are things you need to check so we can see where your at.

roblen73cutlass

So are you leaning more towards it being spark rather than carb/ fuel?
i'd need to buy the correct gauges to check what i didn't

oldcutlass

What I'm saying is it can be all of the above, we have an old saying that most carb problems are ignition related. If your dwell is off you get weak or varied hot and cold spark, then your timing the engine to the bad dwell setting, and then your adjusting the carb to the bad timing setting and your vacuum is weak. They are all related.

You need a tach/dwell meter, a timing light, and a vacuum gauge.

roblen73cutlass

All very good points...i'll get my hand on the necessary tools asap

roblen73cutlass

I also set the points gap to the correct setting when i put the new dizzy in...forgot the exact gap, but what should the dwell angle be on the 350?

M-14

Why not go to hei ignition?

oldcutlass

.016 is the point gap for 30 degree dwell. Timing should be 12deg BTDC @ 1100 rpm.

roblen73cutlass

I thought about doing hei but decided to stick with the old school points.

Ok i'm almost positive i set it to .016 gap with a feeler gauge so should i assume its at 30 degree dwell? and i would have to get the car to accept throttle input first to set that timing because i can't revv it to 1100 rpm at the moment.

oldcutlass

I would assume nothing and check everything.

steverw

If your choke plate is closed it wont run long, try propping it open and see if it will start. It should be completely open when running, unless its really cold outside. Under normal conditions, completely depressing the gas pedal will set the choke for starting. It should run a little fast until it warms up, or until you tap the pedal again to release the choke. If its completely closed its starving for air. I believe there is a way to adjust the choke, maybe someone else can explain how to do that.

roblen73cutlass

haha very true.

Yea i need to grab a helper to open the choke fully and see if that clears it at all
...i'll try about anything at this point.

roblen73cutlass

So i tried calling the guy who rebuilt the carb and it was his machine so i left a message but his message was so ridiculous he was like ''i cannot work on anything new for approx 7 weeks from being so backed up'' so no help from this guy...and just leaves me lost

roblen73cutlass

What exactly does the carburetor mounting gasket look like for the 1973 model q-jets because the guy actually called me back and said he thinks he gave out the wrong mounting gasket and i don't really remember what it looked like but i think i remember it being thicker than the original but i dont remember what the holes looked like

Fun71

There's a recent thread about base gaskets:
https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...thickness.html

http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/Ca...335_0147291736

roblen73cutlass

great, thanks for the links

roblen73cutlass

I pulled the carb and it is the correct gasket with the two small holes and the big oval in back, so i'll rule that out

roblen73cutlass

Well i think i might just take this carb back to the guy who rebuilt it to go thru it again since i have it off the car right now....I cannot believe the problem this car is giving me