roblen73cutlass

Can someone tell me what the car would act like if the vacuum advance wasn't working on the distributor?

MDchanic

Sluggish at mid-throttle, mostly.

- Eric

roblen73cutlass

Damn, doesn't sound like my problem....i was told i could be losing spark shortly after the car starts, but that just puts me back at square 1

M-14

Vacuum advance helps with fuel economy too. Are you getting poor mileage?

roblen73cutlass

I can't get it to run for more than about 10 seconds, and it does not accept any throttle input....

M-14

Take the air cleaner off, open the choke, snap the throttle open. Do you see any gas squirting inside?

roblen73cutlass

yep, got two streams...it was a fresh rebuild on the original carb, the guy who rebuilt it is the one who thinks its a spark issue and its a new distributor, points, coil, wires that's why this is a major problem

M-14

Try turning the distributor a little one way or the other to get it running. Make sure the point gap is correct.

roblen73cutlass

I tried turning it a tad counter clockwise while the engine is off and it did not start, then i turned it where it was and started...i cant really advance it much more due to the vacuum advance kettle hitting the fire wall...i had to advance it a lot when i put the new distributor in since i dropped it in 180 degrees off.

i set the point gap when the new dizzy went in so i doubt it could have changed

roblen73cutlass

Could a leaking brake booster cause this?

M-14

Pinch off the hose if you think its leaking, usually a vacuum leak will cause a high idle & stumble on acceleration.
I'd reposition the distributor so you can turn it more.

roblen73cutlass

Yeah i think i need to pull it out and twist past the firewall and see what happens because the booster doesn't sound like the problem.

would you say to try and advance the timing more?

lemoldsnut

start over on the distributor. Take number one plug out put your finger in the hole, bump the engine over with the starter till it pushes out your finger with the air. Then double check the timing mark that you are at top dead center. now take off the distributor cap and make sure the rotor is pointed to number one spark plug wire on the cap. This should also be pointed towards number one cylinder on the engine and that will make the distributor very close to correct. Not timed but enough to make it run by that setting. Then reset the point gap. Regardless of what you have done. You are double checking yourself. Then take a hot direct wire from the positive battery post to the coil positive side. I have a wire I made to do that with gator clips and it has a relay in it so it won't melt down if there is a short. At this point I would also disconnect the wire from the wiring harness to the positive side of the coil. The reason I do that is: the wires to the starter have a yellow wire that goes back to the coil to give it 12 volts instead of 9 volts to assist on start up. If that wire is bad or shorted it could be your issue. If you do all of that and it still does not run well then I would look for a serious vacuum leak.

Just something I would try.

Hope it helps
Larry

steverw

Is your fuel good? As in new gas or is it old gas. This can make some difference. Also is your fuel tank clean? The sending unit has a sock filter on it that can get clogged up if the tank is dirty or old gas has jelled and clogging up the filter sock. Also which side is your vacume advance on? Passenger or driver? If its hitting the firewall you can rotate all the wires in the cap one terminal to give you more timing adjustment. Counter clockwise if its on the passenger side, clockwise if its on the drivers side.

roblen73cutlass

Larry, thank you for all that info... you hit on the same points that i was pondering, when i replaced the distributor i later found out that the old one had a sliced/beat up wire that went to the negative side of the coil so i'm thinking it could be the wires that go to the starter and back. Also when i put the new distributor in i put it in totally backwards and stupidly cranked the car and had to find TDC with my finger like you described, but it ran until i timed it by sound and higher idle...ran for about 4 ish months until this problem going on a year. sorry that was so long

roblen73cutlass

steverw, yes i believe fuel is good i always freshened it up but this gas is going on several months now. i have no clue what the fuel tank is like but i doubt it could be dirty the gas looks clean going thru the fuel pump.

My vacuum advance is twisted all the way on the passenger side of the firewall

Octania

My vacuum advance is twisted all the way on the passenger side of the firewall
=======================

That's easy
Do this at TDC #1 compression/power stroke [well, 10 degrees BTDC]. Where spark should happen, give or take a little. Did you ever check the timing, like with a timing light, to see where it did end up with the engine bumping the firewall?

So if your vacuum canister is hitting the firewall on the RH side, you need to move the housing CCW as viewed from above. Therefore you need to move the rotor one tooth on the cam, CCW as viewed from above.

Pull the dist'r up a little, just until the gears are free. No need to remove wire to coil.

Note that the rotor turns a bit as the dist'r moves in/out due to the helical gears
be careful to keep track of where the rotor tip was before you pulled the dist'r up and also after the gears lose contact and the dist'r is free.

Move the rotor CCW until the very next tooth engages. You can feel the gears engage as you wiggle the dist'r into place. Use some finesse.

Now, because the oil pump driveshaft is a hex but the dist'r drive gear is something like 18 teeth, you have moved the gear 1/18 turn and the oil pump drive rod will defy assembly... a little. Wiggle, curse, etc. until they mate properly. Sometimes you even have to totally unwire and pull the dist'r and put the 5/16" socket in there and turn the oil pump drive rod a bit to a more favorable position.

Now set the dist'r housing such that the points are just opening [spark is being made] and because you did all this with the crank right at where you want spark made, voila'.

Start engine and make the final timing setting adjustment w/o firewall interference.

I would be surprised it this easy procedure does not get your engine running well.


This started about 10/8/2014:
"The distributor is just a point factory replacement. it ran until the carb needed a rebuild and the rebuild deff fixed what it was doing before. Yeah it always comes on at low rpm but i can get it to about 800-900 rpm and the gen light is still on..."

Hmmmmm.... who determined the "carb needed a rebuild" and by what diagnostic procedure? The same guy who replaced "worn out" metering rods? [I have never seen worn out metering rods]

Sounds like random fiddling with things that were working fine, due to engineignorance [I just made that up]...

If setting the dwell and timing right does not make her run, I suggest attending a local car show, find a guy that has the tools [dwell/tach meter, etc. and can do this], and ask for help, in-person.

Am I missing something or do we not have even 1 photo of this carb setup yet? Maybe the choke is not even hooked up right.

Does it look and act like this when cold?
http://vid19.photobucket.com/albums/...pstjoonnoy.mp4

It should do this:
http://vid19.photobucket.com/albums/...psnqnqmat1.mp4

73oldssupreme

try swapping the carb with another one, if you can. see what happens

Octania

Agreed, they made many millions of carbs, and it can't be that hard to find an alternative unit that bolts up readily. For a lot less than $200. Hell I have many. Shipping a carb is not very expensive.

roblen73cutlass

Octania,
i am going to try what you mentioned right when i get the chance but your right with me not putting any pictures up i will post some shorty. the main reason we got the carburetor done was because is was leaking from a few spots and had pretty bad varnish so we figured it needed a going thru...the car has only gone up and down my street a few times every couple months since about 2000 so 15 years of that and no good road use to blow it out.
and no i do not have any spare quadrajets to try out, but i believe mine should be fine, if messing with spark and timing again doesn't prevail then i will grab another carb to try

roblen73cutlass

some pictures

classicmuscle442

your second pictures shows the choke closed, when it starts does the choke crack open? You can set a screwdriver in to hold choke open for testing.

roblen73cutlass

Yeah i'm pretty sure it does, today after messing with the distributor i couldn't really get it to start or stay running for a few seconds, i think the choke was closed the whole time but like i said i really couldn't get it to run

classicmuscle442

Choke has to open or it will stall!

oldcutlass

Your choke is out of adjustment, it needs to be open a bit to stay running. Try propping it open, it will stay running.

steverw

Also looks like your fuel line has quite a kink in it, could reduce fuel flow

roblen73cutlass

I've seen the choke crack open like it should plenty of times before but i will play with it and see what it does.

lol yeah i've had problems with the fuel line in the past, but the kink i straightened it out and i also have a flex line and the car acts the same when that's on so i left the original line on

olds 307 and 403

I have seen where a seized vacuum advance will cause stalling in gear under load. At idle in park, it should not. You need to find where your timing is at.

roblen73cutlass

I agree i need to know the timing, but i couldn't even get it to start today and i can't see any of the timing marks.

it has to be some **** with the timing because its back firing out of the carb now (not exhaust) i also messed with the distributor yesterday to get the vacuum advance on the other end of the firewall but the advanced the timing to much and it barley crank (to much timing) so i put it back in where its been witch a year ago was the perfect spot where it ran

classicmuscle442

I hate to be negative but you need someone to help you fix the problem.

MDchanic

This has been going on for nine months. +1.

- Eric

steverw

Surely theres someone up there that can come over on a weekend and help you. I feel like its something simple, but who knows.

steverw

Ok im not trying to insult your intelligence, because I dont know what you do know. But you do know the distributor turns counter clockwise on an Olds. So its gets wired counter clockwise. It really dosent matter where the rotor is pointing, you can just start the number one plug wire from where its pointing then 8436572. COUNTER clockwise. Of course this is with the engine at top dead center. If the rotor is between 2 terminals on the cap, put the no. one wire on the terminal the rotor will reach next. Easiest is to just pull the distributor just a little to disengage the gear, and rotate the rotor so its pointing toward the no. 1 cylinder...ish. Then wire it from there. If its back firing through the carb, it sounds like the distributor is 180 degrees out, which means raise the dist. and turn it half way around then stab it back in. And the choke plate needs to be more than cracked open. Prop it wide open with a screwdriver. The more closed it is, the less air it will get, and the more gas it will get. It will flood, run very poorly, or not, and foul your plugs which will also cause it to run poorly or not at all. You might want to pull all your plugs and dry them with compressed air, or get new ones. Pull the coil wire and crank the engine over to blow any excess gas from the cylinders.
And again try to get someone to help you.

roblen73cutlass

It would be nice to get some help because my mind is racked from all the things i've tried.
i really appreciate all the help you guys have offered and i know that the problem is driving you guys insane as well.

i am going to start over and get it to tdc and see what happens from there

Jeff's Classics

Yes, I've had this happen to me multiple times on different cars over the years.

This sounds like a very big vacuum leak to me. I suggest disconnecting all vacuum lines from the carb and manifold to start with. It should run without vacuum advance or any other vacuum accessories, I just did this with my '72 350.

What I found was a bolt hole in the manifold that I thought was a blind hole actually went through into a runner. I plugged it and the car runs like new.

I also second what the guys have said about going back to the basics...find TDC, set distributor timing, set point gap, etc.

If all of that doesn't fix it try a different carb

Best to find another set of eyes, fresh eyes, to help.

Good luck, and please post your solution when you get there.

Jeff

roblen73cutlass

Jeff,
yes that was my next step after getting it to TDC, plugging up the booster and seeing what it does...a fresh set of eyes would help too, thanks for your input, no doubt i would post my solution once it's found

roblen73cutlass

After cleaning the timing marks

Jeff's Classics

Pop the distributor cap off, the rotor should be pointing (more or less) at the socket for the #1 spark plug wire.

roblen73cutlass

It is, i got the engine to TDC and set the distributor accordingly...this is the second time i've done this, the first was when i put the new distributor in about a year ago and it ran fine then

roblen73cutlass

Anyone want to buy the car?