MDchanic

Those are NOT SpeedPro forged 4087s.

I don't know what they are, but they are definitely deep dish / low compression.
I don't like the roughness of the casting.

Anyone recognize them?

- Eric

ps: none of the rust bothers me.

babs68

This shoddy work has definitely put a damper on this beer Sunday.

Eric, how much would do you think it would set me back I I were to have another shop rebuild this engine? I know it is a lot to ask with just the pictures and not tearing everything apart, but I'm just looking at a ballpark figure.

I'm not looking to getting carried away by putting more HP than I need. This will be a daily driver.

babs68

I would be interested to see what kind of pistons they are. I know through my research a while back that many use Speedpro/Sealed Power.

The casting is a bit rougher than I am use to seeing, even on D-shaped ones.

MDchanic

I'm afraid that's not my area of expertise, so I will not hazard a guess.

What I would say that you need, though, is not a rebuild, but disassembly and confirmation of correct pats, cleanliness, and clearances, and possibly fine-tuning of component selection, specifically pistons and camshaft (depending on what cam is in there).

It is really hard to say much without knowing the combustion chamber and piston crown volumes.

- Eric

Macadoo

The cylinders don't look that bad to me, but this is beyond my experience. I'd be more worried that the rod and main bearings look similar/rusty.

Any of our local experts have an opinion?

babs68

I'm going to have to drop it off at the machine shop and see what the diagnosis is. If it is something we can work with at least I will have the ability, this time around, to put together a decent build and know what's under the hood.

The piece of mind is something I'm willing to pay for.

Macadoo

Ahh, peace of mind, schmeesh of schmind. No matter how hard I work on my car or how much money I spend, during long trips I hear every weird sound and smell every weird smell. Even when the culprit is not part of the car; burning garbage, someone else's squeaking belt, etc. I'm learning to live with it

olds 307 and 403

Get everything checked over, it could be a couple of hundred or a grand+, depends on the measurements and rust. That intake would have leaked with no sealant around the water ports. The cylinders don't look bad but I would check the bottom end too. With those pistons I would mill the heads and maybe deck the block, you will have maybe 8 to 1 or less compression.

babs68

We are setting aside $3,500-4,000 on this engine problem just in case. I will most likely change the pistons to flat heads to get a higher compression.

I don't know if that budget is too high or too low, but as the lady said the other night, "You might as well try to fit a crate engine in that thing for that amount. Oh right, they don't make a crate engine for Olds."

MDchanic

I think the head bolt holes are heftier.

- Eric

babs68

I had a feeling you would say that. I suppose putting the heads back on will serve two purpose one for lifting and the other to protect the cylinder walls during transport. Wouldn't want any stray birds nose diving into one.

MDchanic

Just buy a couple of bolts the same size as the head bolts but shorter, with a few washers, and make sure the chain you use is big enough for the bolts to go through.

- Eric

oldsguybry

What Eric said ..... You guys are light years ahead of me when it comes to this , but I used a cheap engine hoist along with the chain / balancer thingy that came with it and the whole thing almost toppled over + Also the chain links that I bolted to the top of the engine were bent when I was done . I would definitely go with decent equipment , just an FYI .

Cincinnati Rick

Wow...at the sake of sounding rude, reading your thread just made me feel a little better about my recent woes.

Finding all the problems with your motor stinks but tearing into it and knowing what you have at the end will be very rewarding. At least that's what I keep telling myself. lol

Keep us posted on your progress. Looks like the CO boys have your back so you're in good hands.

Rick

babs68

Well I finally got around and found a machine shop that seems honest and a straight shooter. It does help that he owns a couple of oldsmobiles himself one of which is 1965 442 which is comforting because he knows how an old engine should be.

He mentioned that the heads look great with the exception of the moisture leaking through. He quoted me around $800-1000 to disassemble the entire engine, clean everything out and take care of the valves.

I would just need to buy a new gasket set for him and he will see what kind of CR we will get with the dish pistons. He didn't want to me to just go and start buying stuff before we get all the numbers correct.

wls559

Sounds like you went over to Jerry's.

Bill

babs68

Bill,

Thanks for the heads up on Jerry. He is very patient and like you said a straight shooter. I like that he wasn't trying to sell me on parts like a few other machine shops, so that alone was good enough for me.

wls559

No prob, next time your down there ask him to open the other bay door! He has a few gems in there.

Bill

babs68

Oh man, now you have me wanting to drive all the way down there to see what they are. Any clues? haha

Hopefully I will be able to get the engine down to his shop by end of September after I get back in the groove of school and done dealing with the faculty.

oldcutlass

Glad your moving forward. The alternative may have been far worse.

babs68

It feels like ages since I've been on here and actually working on the car; being a teacher really takes a lot of my time. Yikes!

Well, I finally have time this weekend as it is a three day weekend and ready to get the engine to the shop.

I only want to pull the engine out and leave the trans in place, so I figure I would remove the flex plate from the torque converter.

I ran into the problem of the torque converter bolts not wanting to come loose.

Any suggestions on how to get these three bolts out?

Thanks again everyone.

MDchanic

You've just got to hold the converter very still (lock it solidly with a screwdriver in the gear teeth, or something similar - they actually make bolt-on locking devices), put the most solid wrench you have on the bolt, and apply the sharpest impact you can (a sharp blow with a sledgehammer is good).

A sharp blow will do more to loosen it than a steady pull.

Also, use a good penetrating oil.

- Eric

76olds

I just read through this thread. Good to hear you finally got your car back, sounds like you've had your fill of problems. I'm not sure how I would have handled that. From just taking the rocker cover off to dismantling the top of your engine seemed to go well. I have to say you have the best guys on the site helping you get through this nasty nightmare.
I like to read threads such as this, makes me feel good to know these guys always have our back and we can always count on them. I know my car is always in good hands if ever a problem arise with these guys.
I hope things continue to go smoothly so you can get that engine running in tip top condition.
Babs68 your doing an awesome job dismantling your engine given the conditions.
You guys are all awesome !!!
Cheers
Eric

babs68

Thanks for the tips Eric. Currently, I'm having a heck of a time getting those three bolts loose from the TC. I'm guessing when they installed the screws—which by the way are 15mm—they probably put a bit of locktite. I sprayed some PB Blaster on there and going to let it sit overnight and spray more tomorrow.

D3TOfZT.jpg

My main concern is if and when I do manage to get those three bolts off and ready to pull the engine I am questioning if I should get a trans jack just to cover my butt in case the crossmember can't hold it; it looks pretty secure except for that one screw that needs to be tighten.

OT3U2iP.jpg

babs68

Just going to bump this and see if I get some insight on whether I should get a trans jack just in case.

babs68

Also, has anyone used Kroil penetrating oil? This stuff is so good.

coppercutlass

A regular jack and a block of wood that should be enough for the trans to not drop down . Then you can use 2 small chains and hooks on the fire wall to hold it up or a 2x4 with lag bolts to hold the trans up by the frame. This would be if you have the engine out for pro longed periods.

BTW Kroil is awesome. I got a case of it.

MDchanic

+ 1 and 1.

You can prop or hang up the front of the transmission a number of ways.
Just use your imagination.
I like some sort of a jack - whether a floor jack or a bottle jack - because you can adjust the height (and therefore the angle of the input shaft) when you drop the motor back in, since no matter where it is right now, it's guaranteed to be wrong.

And, yes, KROIL is great. I always keep a can around.
2 provisos: the aerosol can will lose its gas after a year or three, and the non-aerosol will have its volatiles evaporate out in the same time.

Also, make sure your wife doesn't dislike the smell.

- Eric