oldcutlass

Ceiling... and ruined a friends shirt. By the way engine oil is good for your complexion.

MDchanic

The used stuff'll give you an "oil can tan"!

- Eric

babs68

DOH!

The oil filter is in place, but I may need to plug up the oil sender hole for now because I don't have the bent elbow and oil pressure send unit.

The weather this weekend should be in the 80s so I'll try it then.

MDchanic

You DO know that you need to have an oil pressure gauge to do this right, right?

- Eric

babs68

I have this tubing kit for now with a mechanical gauge and .12 fitting I was going to hook up where the sending unit is, is that what you mean?

As the night gets later it is harder for me to type my words because one hand is on the keyboard and the other is on the bourbon.

MDchanic

Yes. You do want a gauge connected, so that you can see that you are actually generating oil pressure.



Hell, that makes it easier for me to type. I'm just surprised when I read it the next day.

- Eric

Ozzie

When tightening the retainers for any pair of valves, both valves should be in the closed position; otherwise the aluminum bridge could break.

babs68

So the weather was in the low 90s and I figure I would prime the engine today and see if this problem will clear up. As I was priming all the valves on the passenger side (2,4,6,8) cleared and I was getting oil to flow to the rockers. I was able to get oil to flow to the rockers on the driver side but only on the 1 and 3. As you see below 5 and 7 was not getting any oil and the gauge was reading from 40-50 psi depending on how hard I would spin the drill.

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I expected something was up at 7, but I didn't expect 5 to not work also.
I also hand cranked the engine while the lady of the house was manning the drill.

At this point I'm not sure what is wrong other than maybe the 4 pushrods are clogged or stuck.

babs68

I cleaned out the 5 valve pushrods and they were indeed clogged and upon trying to clean out the 7 valve pushrods they were clogged and this came out not once, but twice after trying to send oil to them. Is this problem far worse than expected?

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oldcutlass

Once you get the pushrods cleaned out, give it another go with the drill. Did the stuck lifter pump up?

babs68

Where we believe there is a stuck lifter that's where the pushrod is clogged up with all that black dust. I'm thinking of swapping the pushrods that are pushing oil to the rockers to those two valves and see if that works.

babs68

After cleaning all the pushrods I now know it is not the pushrods. I put the push rods in valves 1 and 3 into 5 and 7 and oil is still not flowing. The push rods in 7 still pick up that black dirt. The rest of the valves are working fine and I can hear all the oil squirting away. Hmmmmmm

oldcutlass

Is the manifold off the engine still?

babs68

The intake manifold has always been on the engine

Macadoo

Smart move. But that's a drag dude, I'm sorry.
What is the dirt, can you tell? Is it magnetic? Does it dissolve in brake cleaner?

Macadoo

I think your manifold is going to have to come off in order to see what's happening. The question now is; where's the source of the dirt? The lifter, oil galley, other?

oldcutlass

I think you need to pull that lifter and inspect it. The manifold needs to come off.

babs68

Well, I'm thinking the dirt has just accumulated over the two years that is has been sitting there while I was trying to get the car via the court system.

The valves that do push oil has some of that dirt also.

I was hoping to not take the manifold off because I wouldn't know my way around it.

Macadoo

Eric, couldn't he pour a bunch of Rislone or kerosine in the crank case and run the drill for while and see if the dirt clears? And of course change it before the big first-fire.

oldcutlass

I don't know if it will clear out, he could try. Rislone won't do anything at this point. Taking the manifold off is not a big deal and the lifters are easy to get to once you do.

babs68

I was thinking of dropping some Marvel Mystery Oil and drilling it for a while. P

The reason I don't want to even try and take the manifold off is about a few years ago I remember my brother had the hardest time with a stuck manifold. He almost had to get the jaws of life hahah

babs68

The dirt has to be some kind of deposit and it is trying to make its way up through the pushrods, but then just clogs up.

babs68

I think before pulling the manifold I'll drop some MMO and if that doesn't work then I guess I know what I will be doing this weekend.

I'm hoping to take care of this engine problem before I go back to teaching in the fall. Yikes!

babs68

Sorry for all the post in one day on this thread, but after drilling and continually cleaning the push rods and the rockers oil started flowing on the first rocker on the 7 valve. It just gushed out as soon as I was about to call it a night.

Now I need to get the second rocker arm on the 7 and the two on the 5 to start gushing. I think I will add another quart or two and just keep with the process of drilling and cleaning the push rods.

On the bright side the push rods that carried the dirt no longer appears to have any.

Macadoo

I doubt MMO would be strong enough to dissolve whatever that crud is. But if it's clearing out you might as well stick with it until everything's clean.
Pulling the intake isn't a big deal at all. But if I'm seeing correctly, that's the original cast iron. And THAT can be a bugger to get placed without shifting it with the engine in the car. You'd need a second pair of hands, for sure. I'd also suggest changing the oil before the first fire, just to be sure. Do what you have to do to make sure it's clean. Do the research, trust yourself. I'd never done anything like this before I bought my Olds a couple years ago. The fellows here walked me through pretty much every step and were very patient answering all my newb questions. And not only does it run, but it runs great!
I'm also counting how many days I have left before school starts back up. I love teaching but I love eating, sleeping, and working on the Olds whenever I want, more

babs68

I think the process of me turning the crank until i get each valve spring to open up and then drilling again might be the trick for now. I figure I would try and loosen that rocker up and see if the oil would come through and it did. I think I will do that for the remaining three and hopefully it will clear up.

The fact that the crud is clearing up is a good sign. That means something is circulating.

In regards to the intake it is the original cast iron and that is why I am worried of taking it off and trying to put it back on. 99% of the time this process is just a one man job and my buddies are too busy doing something else. That's what friends are for hahaha.

MDchanic

I think we need to pause for a moment and consider the question: "What was that stuff in the pushrods, and how did it get there?"

This was not a used engine. This was a freshly built engine with no oil in it, or use on it, which had never been run.
There is no way for anything to have gotten into the pushrods.

I, myself, have never heard of there being any sort of powdery substance inside of any pushrod, ever.

This may sound unwelcome, and even alarmist, but I would seriously think about whether that engine needs to come apart, considering the fact that it was in another person's shop for several years while you sued him, and that something strange is inside it.

- Eric

babs68

Eric, from day one when I got the car back I have always had the alarmist attitude.

That is the question that is still lingering in my head. The crud seriously looks like rust and i know for sure that they never got to the point where when the engine came that they had to put oil in it and just let it sit for a couple of years. The crud only seemed to come from the push rods on the 7. I checked the rest and no crud was found.

When I was putting on the new water pump I noticed rust on the holes of each side of the timing chain cover. I really don't blame the builder for this, but more so the shop that just left it in a plastic covering for a year before attempting to even mount the engine.

This whole car process is absolutely fun to work on, but there are days where I take 2 steps forward and 5 steps back to the bar.

babs68

Could the crud just be debris from when the builder was working on the engine and it just sat there?

MDchanic

There should be no debris when building an engine. It's a practically-sterile process.
The whole point is to avoid the entry of any foreign material.

- Eric

Macadoo

I didn't get my car running by ignoring MDchanic's advice and expertise. But I have to wonder if every engine is built in a "clean room". What if the block wasn't hot-tanked and the oil galleys have had crud in them from the beginning?

Ozzie

While all crud should be eliminated from the push rods, keep in mind that oil flow normally is controlled by the oil metering valve (disc) within each lifter. If the push rods had crud, it's possible that the lifters might also. The disc is directly below the push rod seat at the top of the lifter. Depending on temperature and oil viscosity, it sometimes requires considerable time for the oil to reach the rockers; 20-30 minutes are possible. If the oil flow cannot be corrected, it may be in order to carefully disassemble and clean each offending lifter and assure that oil flow has been restored.

babs68

I am very thankful that everyone here is helpful and not snarky. At this point I don't think I would have found this problem without CO.

Right there is 3 quarts of Royal Purple Break In. In total I have only primed the engine for about 7 mins. Most of my time is cleaning the pushrods.

Could it be possible that the crud was created when the engine was hand cranked without any oil present and the pushrod and lifter was just grinding away? It is promising that one of the rockets that was not receiving started to after some cleaning.

Grumbler

I'd say....no. I'd also say you could have that crap inside your lifters by now, and who knows where else inside the engine. Theres no way there should be junk like that in an engine that came from a shop, doesn't matter how long it sat there. Sorry but I think you've been boned and you should pull the manifold at a MINIMUM to investigate further

oldcutlass

The grit is basically like sand paper, it will wedge in and wear your bearings. I would take the manifold off and see if I could find the source of it. The oil has distinct paths within the engine to provided lubrication to the bearings, mains first, then up through the journals into the cam bearings, #1 cylinder lifters are last. I would not prime anymore until the intake has been removed and lifters are inspected for contamination. I know its a pain in the butt to do this, however if that stuff is floating around its going to hurt something, just my .02.

Macadoo

You've got the skills and experience right here on CO. The question is, do you have the proper tools and space. IIRC you're pretty tight on space.
Don't worry about the intake being stuck. Mine came right off and that was after 42 years of being bolted down. Get the proper gaskets, some ultra black or ultra gray silicone, take LOTS of pictures, especially of the vacuum hoses, have a shop vac and a helper handy, and set to work. And since the intake is coming off anyway, might as well (MAW!) think about replacing it with an Edelbrock aluminum
Where abouts are you located? I wonder if one of us CO folks are near by enough to lend a hand.

babs68

Space is definitely an issue.

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I have about less than a foot on each side to move around ahaha. Now is probably the best time to take the manifold off. Only the carb and thermostat is connected and it is probably best that I learn how to do this now.

I'm in Sacramento, California.

Macadoo

Whoa, did you build this structure around the car?
Really, pulling an intake is a piece of cake. Take your time, don't gouge any metal, get everything really clean before reinstall, and follow the torque sequence/pattern when bolting back on. I'd lend a hand but Cali isn't exactly next door. At least you're not fighting the 5 days a week of rain that we've had in the Midwest this summer.

babs68

We live in the downtown/midtown area and you're lucky if you even have a garage. Street parking is like game of thrones for finding a spot. My 65 vw notchback was in that space and I knew it would be a tight fit for the 68.

I might actually look into getting a new manifold. Any suggestions on which model Edelbrock?

Macadoo

Well we might be opening a can of worms here. Any other mods on the car? Dual exhaust? Aftermarket cam? You probably won't notice any difference in performance if everything else is stock. BUT: an aluminum is a lot easier/lighter to install. I have the Edelbrock Performer on my 350. I didn't mind capping off the EGR port (it came with the cap and gasket) but I've heard that port can interfere with cruise control units. You'll also need a set of water port plugs and you'll be rerouting some of the vacuum hoses.
Unless you have dual exhaust and an aftermarket cam, I'd say stick with the stock cast iron intake until you know what's happening with your engine.