mother$hip89

I'm getting ready to do the cam break in, but I can't get the engine to start without starting fluid and once it does, it dies right after. I would think it's a fuel issue but I filled up the carb bowl and I can see it squirt gas into the barrel when I pump the throttle so I'm not sure what could go wrong there. Any ideas on what I could try?

Tim75

Fuel pump or sending unit would be my guess. Or something in the fuel line restricting the flow.

mother$hip89

That's what's confusing me, it doesn't even seem to be using the fuel I put in the bowl so the line and pump shouldn't even be in play yet.

RandyS

Does it die as soon as you let the key return to the run position? If so, check your wiring to the coil.

mother$hip89

I'm using one of those remote start switches that's just a button connecting the starter solenoid to the battery. The only other connections I have hooked up are power to the distributor, and power to the starter. The distributor is HEI so the coil is right in the cap. It runs for maybe a second after releasing the button to start and only with starting fluid.

joe_padavano

Are you sure you have 12V to the HEI at all times?

oldcutlass

If you operate the throttle while looking down into the carb do you see two jets of fuel spraying with the engine off?

Gpc1

You can just hot wire it from the positive side of the battery to the positive on the HEI for temporary use if you just want to make it run.

scrappie

Will it keep running if you keep spraying starter fluid?

mother$hip89

Yes there are jets of gasoline when I pull the throttle with the engine off. There's a 12 ga wire hooked right to the battery going to the distributor.

oldcutlass

Is the choke open fully? Did you crank the idle speed up a bit? Perhaps advance the timing a little and open the air/fuel screws 1/2 turn or so.

mother$hip89

The choke plate is closed. The idle screw was already turned way in right before the engine was taken down

droldsmorland

New cam...gotta ask...did you install it right? Cam gear and crank gear marks aligned properly?
Verify the distributor is in right and you have it on TDC on #1 then try again.
Check basic static settings on the carb. What kind of carb? Its condition?
Buy an inline spark tester. Observe spark or lack of when it dies.
Buy a fuel/vacuum gauge to verify pump pressure. You should have one to tune with.
Starting fluid is a great way to shatter pistons/rings.

oldcutlass

Either adjust or wedge the choke plate fully open. If it runs on starting fluid it should run on fuel if you have spark and fuel in the bowl.

mother$hip89

I thought the choke was supposed to be closed when cold starting the engine, am I missing something?

oldcutlass

It is under normal operating conditions, but you want the rpms up over 2000 quickly and you don't want to be limited by the choke.

mother$hip89

I tried with the choke plate open, it seems like it went for an instant longer then spit up fire and died. I've already checked and rechecked the firing order and it's right so I'm not sure where to go from here.

RandyS

You might re-check that you have the distributor stabbed correctly.

oldcutlass

What Randy is saying is you may have the distributor 180* out. I would advance the timing a little and see if it will start. If it starts to back fire out the carb, bump the engine around until the rotor is pointing to #1 spark plug wire, then pull the distributor up a bit and then turn the rotor so its pointing to the #6 wire and push it back down.

mother$hip89

Could I just shift the spark plug wires over 180 degrees on the cap or do I need to remove the distributor.

boese1978

Yes you can, should work if that is the ONLY issue.

oldcutlass

X2, but its easier to pop the distributor rotate the rotor and put it back in.

Kennybill

I'm not a fan of starting fluid, if it won't start on gas, something is wrong. Maybe this will help you, hopefully.
http://www.how-to-build-hotrods.com/...ur-engine.html

Kennybill

Any updates ?

mother$hip89

Well, I now know the timing is NOT 180 off. Finally got the cajones to try starting fluid again (not a fan of the stuff either) and with a little more of it the engine starts like a champ. I'm almost sure now it's the carburetor so it'll be getting a thorough rebuild.

Vintage Chief

I do hope you're trending in the correct direction; yet, I have a suggestion and somewhat of a dilemma in the direction you're moving to fix the issue. I don't like using starting fluid unless essential. However, here is something to consider regarding starting fluid versus gasoline.

The auto ignition temperature of normal octane gasoline (whether leaded or unleaded) is ~650°F - 750°F.
The auto ignition temperature of most starting fluid is ~350°F.

Employing starting fluid you reduce the auto ignition temperature required to ignite the starting fluid e.g. start the engine. Essentially, the engine starts at a temperature nearly one-half of the normal auto ignition temperature of normal gasoline.

Once the engine starts - employing your new method of adding much more starting fluid - it appears the engine continues to run?

If that is the case, and adding to this fact you can clearly see gasoline being sprayed from the jets into the carburetor when the engine is in the off position, IMO - while rebuilding the carburetor is not such a bad idea (of its own merit), but I suspect the delivery of gasoline to your engine is not your issue.

IMO, your issue resides in the inability to start the engine with a weakened electrical system. Either your spark plugs are inadequate (fouled, wrong type, etc.), the coil is of the wrong type, the ignition wires have far too much resistance, they're incorrect, or any of several other items related to the pulse of the ignition system (basically electrical).

That's just my opinion. But I'm leaning more towards the inability to achieve the required temperature necessary to start the engine. If you can start the engine at one-half the normal auto ignition temperature of gasoline, but then the engine quits, your engine start temperature (plugs, coil, etc) is not optimal. If you require even more starter fluid to start the engine and it finally continues to run, you're masking an issue. I hope you are moving in the correct direction but I have my suspicions the carburetor rebuild may not resolve your issue.

mother$hip89

Never even thought about ignition temperature differences. I'll take a better look at the ignition system while I wait on parts for the carb (idle circuit never worked right all the way anyways).

Fun71

I read through the posts again and see that you have an HEI distributor that is powered directly from the battery with a 12 ga wire.

For all of the troublehsooters out there, if it actually is a weak spark issue, what are the items to check, and what is the procedure for checking them?

Vintage Chief

(1) Ensure you do in fact have 12V being delivered from the battery;
(2) Remove each spark plug and visualize for fouled plugs, cracked plugs, correct type of plug and correct gap of plug;
(3) Remove spark plug ignition wires and determine visually spark plug wires are not cracked, chaffed, broken along the length of the ignition wires, determine the ignition wires end sockets are not broken, corroded, etc. You can determine Ohm from each wire based upon length. I believe normal daily driver ignition wires would suffice at ~1500 Ohms/ - 2000 Ohms/foot. The ignition wires I'm installing tomorrow are round wound, ceramic ends, 8.5mm and rated at 150 Ohms/foot (but that is a best case scenario);
(4) Determine you're employing the correct IGN coil for the HEI;
(5) Ensure the HEI IGN coil is correctly installed and is in working condition. This area is a tad outside my range of troubleshooting, since I employ contact points. But, I'd look to ensure the wires on my coil from distributor to coil, etc. are correctly sized, no corrosion, etc.

Someone with additional experience regarding electrical pulse for an HEI would provide better information regarding troubleshooting for an HEI system.

ragz442

You're not a Chevy guy by any chance? I've helped a few over the years that had the firing order correct, but didn't realize Oldsmobiles spin CCW. If you have good blue spark at the plugs the HEI should be working well enough to start it.

mother$hip89

I've finally gotten around to replacing the distributor module and coil. The engine started right up and ran for about 6 minutes before shutting off. The belt was making plenty of noise and the battery was very low so I figured the alternator was slipping. I tried to start it today and got nothing, plugged in the spark tester and there was no spark. The distributor cap was hot so I took it off and opened it up to see my coil all burned up and smoking. What would do this?
EDIT: The tach cable shorted to the block. Did I likely lose the module too?