Moofinator

I was returning from a picnic (our local Olds Club picnic!) yesterday and all was great until almost home...

Driving along fine on the highway at about 50 mph, and all of a sudden it felt as though the car had popped into neutral! I revved the engine but couldn't hear anything, put it in lower gear heard engine rev high, put it back in drive, nothing! Tried to rev the engine with the accel pedal, heard the engine rev a couple of times, felt it stutter and die. Was able to put it in neutral and make it to the side of the road by coasting (of course it had to happen in a construction zone with only 1 lane in each direction and no shoulder. )

Couldn't get the car to start at all. Had it towed home. Tried to start it there and haven't been able to get it yet. Seems like it's not getting fuel to the carb. Replaced fuel filter and still nothing.

I had it down to about a gallon and a half in the tank, and filled it up with 92 octane earlier in the day plus octane boost. She has really been driving wonderfully and I just can't understand why all of a sudden she quits...
Confused as to what might be causing this, Fuel pump? Collapsed fuel line (happended to my brother's motorhome, so I guess it's possible?) What do I need to do to make sure nothing came unsettled in the gas tank and clogged the lines? At first I thought it was a tranny problem, but why won't the car start? You don't think it's the timing chain, do you?

We had taken her out to two cruise night this weekend, 1 car show and to the Olds club picnic. Having a total blast with the car , but I've got to get it running correctly for the next owner.

Suggestions welcome!!

Thanks, Chris

Oldsmaniac

If you think its a fuel problem you can dribble a shot glass of gas down thru the throat of the carb and turn over the engine with the starter...it should fire for a second or 2. If it does the problem is gas....it could be the fuel pump, a cracked rubber line that would let the pump suck air and not fuel or even the sock filter within the fuel tank. These are places to start.

toolbox

Agreed...sounds like either the fuel pump (easy to check as above) or an electrical connection came loose. If dumping gas down the carb won't get it to fire, check your plugs for spark, and check the connections to the coil. Also pull the oil dipstick and smell it...if it smells like gas, the diaphragm in the fuel pump is bad.

alrandmae

Hi Chris,

Yes, I would make the same suggestions as the other guys. To get the problem solved you should go step by step. First I would do a visual down the throat of the carb primaries with a flashlight. Pump the throttle while looking down and check to see if fuel is spraying out the accellerator pump ports. If you dont see it squirt there is no gas in the carb and it is probably a fuel problem. If so, I would still try priming the carb to see if the car will run with fuel: Use a tiny funnel or a pointy squirt bottle to fill the primary float bowl with gas. Dont pour gas down the carb into the throttle body, but instead fill the float so the car will run on its own naturally (and possibly keep running if the problem resolved itself). Should run for about 1-2 minutes on the float bowl alone.

The fuel pump was 'new' on the car, but I'd still check that just in case. Also, could be the float itself (could have gotten stuck in the up position due to dirt at the needle/seat) and might miraculously resolve itself. If it does, dont worry too much about it happening again unless the fuel got contaminated somehow. Probably a fluke.

If it does not start with fuel, then go through the ignition system as suggested. Since it was a sudden problem, I'd check the integrity of the points (but dont move the dwell setting), check the coil wires (both low voltage and hi), and check the wires going to the ignition resisitor on the pass side of the engine near the coil. Quick check of spark can be done by separating the points and looking for spark (with the ignition on). Wont be the plugs, plug wires, dist cap, rotor or anything like that. If all the ignition goes at once, is nearly always in the circuit from the main hi volt coil wire backwards to the low volt side somewhere. If all else fails, try the condensor, but that's a long shot.

All in all the car is so simple it is probably a very inexpensive problem.

I highly doubt it is the timing chain. That engine was so clean and well maintained I would be very surprised if it were anything serious.

Call me anytime if you want to talk this out. 516-316-2048.

Alan

PS: Fire extinguisher still with the car? I'd keep that ready at all times esp while working with the carb. Ya never know.

Moofinator

I tried those things with the fuel down the carb, and it still wouldn't start.

I had the car towed to the shop yesterday. Early this morning they called and said that they looked at it and determined it needed a new coil, cap, and rotor. Said that I should be able to get out of there for around $300.

I said hold on there a cotton-pickin' minute. I know that if I were doing this myself, it would have run about $100 or less...I'd call them back. Later, I called and told them I had found parts online for around $15 for Cap/Rotor, and $35 for the coil, what gives? They said that those prices were less than their wholesale costs. They'd check around some more and get back to me.

Long story short. they found a coil for about $40, put it on and still wasn't getting spark in the distributor cap. Got spark at the coil now, but not at the cap. I'll find out tomorrow what's up for sure.

Anyone think it might just be the condenser? I don't know if they just go out all of a sudden, but the Head Mechanic told me that sometimes coils just go all at once, or at least is possible.

Thanks for all the good suggestions! Alan, I'll be giving you a call soon to talk about the 98 and try to get some history. I did get the folder with receipts from Eric and I saw just how much you had done! WOW! I'll tell you that the folks here in KC are just loving this car! Everywhere I take it, people want to talk about it or just drool a little bit over it, I'm running out of wiping cloths trying to clean it all up

Chris

alrandmae

Hi Chris,

Sounds like the shop is guessing...because I just did a complete tune up on that car including points, plugs, cap, rotor, condensor, wires, etc. So those parts are not going to be the problem, especially all at once! However, I did not replace the coil. But failure of the coil is rare, and what the shop did confirms that. Wish I were there, I could help a lot. It might be just that the points drifted out of spec, or something simple. Did anyone check the dwell? Should be set to 30 degrees. Personally, I always get uncomfortable bringing an old car to a typical shop...aside from the grease marks I typically find on the interior, a lot of today's shops fumble with the simple repairs that old cars sometimes require. Let me know how it goes. Alan. PS: There are specific tests to isolate all ignition problems, so if the shop says it's x, y and z, they are bluffing or ignorant.

alrandmae

Hi Chris...one more thing...the ignition parts that I used were high quality - so I would not replace them unless it is confirmed that they are bad. Cap was a brass contact style (better than aluminum), and the points, condenser and rotor were Blue Streak, which is a premium quality brand. Same with the plugs, were Autolite platinum. And I had the timing set exactly correctly so that the car would run fuel efficiently on premium without 'ping' if the dwell was set correctly to 30 degrees. So they should not mess with the timing. If they did, the setting was 7 deg BTDC and it should be returned to that (with vacuum advance disconnected and carb port plugged). Alan

88 coupe

It's possible. It's possible. It's possible. Rarely. With few exceptions, original coils have outlasted the cars they came in.

And at the customers expense. Not a shop I would recommend to anyone.

Troubleshooting 101: Start the process at the beginning. Do not assume a part is good, just because it is a new replacement.

Very possible. Usually happens when the cam/rubbing block was not properly lubricated.

Should be a given, but lot's of beer money gets wasted on unneeded replacement parts.

Yes. In this case, they are simple tests:

Visually inspect the coil for signs of swelling, leakage. Does the rotor turn, and do the points open and close when the engine is cranked?

Using a test light or VOM, verify there is power at the + side of the coil when the ignition switch is on, then at the – side when the points are closed. If so, pull the coil wire from the dist cap, hold it about ¼" from the closest ground, and have someone crank the engine. If you get a good spark, the points and condenser are good.

If not, adjust the points to .016" gap, or 30° dwell and try it again. If spark is still weak, change the points and condenser.

If the cap and and rotor check out visually, check the secondary (plug) wires for the same ¼" arc at the plugs.

Norm

Moofinator

Turns out the problem wasn't in the coil. They replaced that with a new one and still weren't getting spark through the distributor. It ended up being the cap and rotor. $25 worth of parts and a $360 bill!!!

I couldn't believe it!!!

I probably won't be going back there. It's too bad, seemed like such nice folks, but I think I got REAMED!

Good news is, it run's great again! I've been enjoying driving it the last week or so while I still have it. I have a friend buying it later in the week and he is totally pumped up about the car! The car will be in great hands and I'll be able to get it back at a later date when our new business starts generating some real money... Couldn't ask for a better deal, other than being able to keep it myself.

Thanks for all your suggestions on this one! I was able to tell the shop what to concentrate on and ended up getting my car back much quicker thanks to you all!

Chris