I pulled the valve covers on my recently acquired 64 cutlass 330 yesterday to replace the gaskets b/c there was leakage around the studs. The previous owner stated the engine had been rebuilt. No freaking way possible. There is sand, plastic (from where, I have no clue) and grim covering everthing. So the big question.....can I safely remove all this crude or will this push stuff into the lifters, etc.? If so, what type of cleaner is recommended? I know that this will eventually need a rebuild but funds are tight.

 

Sand? If so, then it will wreck that engine's internals. Sounds like somebody sabotaged it. Disassemble and flush everything.

 

If the debris is dry to semi-dry you might try a shop vac and a plastic putty knife. Scrape all the junk off and vacuum it up immediately. And I agree, if there is truly sand up there then you need to flush the engine completely. Not exactly sure how you could do that on a budget without dis-assembly. Maybe some kind of static, gravity flush from the heads down through the block to the pan. Then replace the filter and oil, preferably removing and cleaning the inside of the pan too. Just brainstorming on that idea and not sure how it would work.

edit: as to what type of solvent? Probably the cheapest would be kerosene.

 

Scrap it *while* the vacuum is on it!

 

I said sand b/c the material was very gritty and did not look like metal shavings. Things are not dry, more gummy than anything else. There are holes on both ends of the heads, does this drain something? Does anyone have a picture of there engine when they took the covers off. How are things supposed to look...shiney, black, etc..? So, your thoughts are to pull off the mechanical parts and then flush the heads with the oil pan removed to help stuff drain.

 

I was taught never to flush an old engine, years of crap will be stirred up and most likely do more damage than leaving it alone. As said clean what you can but do not flush.

 

the holes need to be plugged, they are the oil drains,shop vac sounds like a good idea just dont use a flammable varsol etc. maybe engine cleaner like GUNK. good luck

 

Thanks, I'll take some before and after pics and post when completed.

 

I'm wondering if the material might be the valve guide seals that got hard and brittle and came apart. The hard plastic valve guide seals are similar to the nylon sheath on the timing chain gear. If this were the case then surely it wouldn't be a serious as sand...

 

Could also be carbonized oil!!

 

you could drain the oil refill with cleaner /diesel fuel-varasol -or other cleaner ,remove dist and turn oil pump with a drill then drop oil pan and clean out,may need to change cleaning agent several times,replace oil filter and oil.

 

I wonder how much carbon buildup is under the manifold???
I think if it were mine, a rebuild would be in order.
I wonder when the last time the rocker had fresh oil on them.
Or what the oil pump looks like. Bearings anyone?
Have you changed the oil?
If funds are tight, get a running 350 while the 330 gets re-worked.
JMO
Jim

 

Update.....I was working in the dark last night and what appeared to be sand mixed with oil is really very small metal shavings mixed with oil. So, either the cylinders are being chewed up or the valve are bad from running unleaded gas for so many years. I ran the engine with the valve cover off and there is exhasut getting past at #5 and #7. This could be bad vavles or bad rings. No unusual noises were noted during this time. Everyting seems to be ticking along just fine. i still have no idea where the plastic came from. It is curved plastic and quite thick, definetly not part of a gasket. Very odd! I have some 15w 40 CI-4 diesel oil that i was going to use for an oil change this weekend but was concerned about dislodging things....at this point a good cleansing is probably more important. I will go for a long drive and then replace again. I cleaned under the avle covers as best I could (my wife has the camera so I was unable to take photos) without pulling the rockers...should i pull everything and clean before going for a long drive? At this point I am tempted to pull the heads and redo the vavles without doing the rings. Is this a good idea or shoud the whole engine be rebuilt. As stated early, cash is tight right now. is it worth doing the heads and valves without doing the pistons and rings?

 

I agree with Olds64 on the plastic stuff. This sounds like valve seals that have petrified and come apart!

It's no fun having a toy and not being able to do anything with it! In a perfect world you would completely rebuild it now. Next best thing... as Warhead suggested get a cheap running 350 to make it drive and rebuild the 330 when you have the funds.

Do you need it for transportation or is this a project car? I'd hate to see you spend money on the heads and have something else give out on you as your driving it. When I was younger and didn't have enough money to buy a dependable car I went through several cars that burned and leaked oil and fouled the spark plugs on a regular basis. Not a long term solution, but just around town it did what I needed. If you gotta drive it don't make any long trips and no light to light racing!!! Just baby it and save your money until you can go through it. My 2 cents worth..... John

 

X 3 on the valve guide seals,

 

Just clean it and drive it. Don't worry about rebuilding the heads right now. Especially if it isn't giving you any trouble.

 

Exhaust is getting past what?
Please explain where you have leak, cause it almost sound like you were referring to the guides.
I understand about cash flow,or lack thereof.
There is more than 1 way to skin a cat.

I do not like pushing cars, cause that is what it will eventually come to...you just do not know when.

Condition of engine will dictate what should be done, you may be close to a build here. 330's are not cheap anyway, I would think about finding another bullet to keep the shell on the move. Once you park it long term, people tend to leave it loooong term.
Even a 307 will keep it fun, and cheap. Just bolt on your 330 w/pump, distributor (unless you convert the car to a 76-79 HEI ignition), intake, and exhaust manifolds, and carb.

Jim

 

The spark plugs are not fouled, I still changed them yesterday. Looking into the cyclinder, through the spark plug hole, I notice the tops of the pistons are very oily. They hae the same grim that on the heads. The exhaust I mentioned is coming through, at least I think it is coming through, the push rod holes.

 

An exhaust pulse through the push rods holes-you would know that. Very high pressure, with the sound to match. Blow by will not have the pressure release, nor the sound going with it.
I could possibly see an issue if it were the #3/#5 exhaust push rod holes, if it had a portion of the crossover burnt out.
This would, however, explain all of the trash you have in the top end.
Diagnosis aside, do you feel safe taking the wife/kids on a long trip with it like this?

This single unanswered question will make you realize why so many car guys are still single!

Jim

 

If this engine was rebuilt as you stated in your first post, then I think you should be getting your money back.

 

He said the previous owner stated it was rebuilt.

 

Yes, the previous owner said it was rebuilt 2 or 3 years ago. Maybe his idea of rebuilt was an updated edelbrock performer 350 intake and 4bbl carb. Either way exhaust is getting by somewhere. Why do you think #3/#5. Should the vavles be replaced to try and remedy the problem without doing a complete rebuild? Could the vavle seating be bad from all the build up and that is cuasing the blow by? Maybe the CI-4 diesel oil will help over the weekend. My wife drives a sperate car and the 1964 cutlass is a project car. I bike to work everyday, rain or shine. She will not ride in the 64 cutlass right now b/c the smell of exhuast is to overwhelming...I don't blame her since breathing this crude in is by no means good for the lungs.

 

Something is definitely bad here, if you can't hack breathing, while driving it.
I say #3/#5 because the crossover runs between those two cylinders.
There is an issue at this point, and I think at least the manifold must come off. None the less, I can't tell from my computer screen. Unsure of a valve issue, that would not answer why cylinder pressure is getting into the crank case. The ONLY thing I can imagine at this point is a cracked head casting, bad crossover at the manifold, or a plugged exhaust system, which would still push crud continually through the cross over, into a bad point in one of the castings.

I wish I could help you more Mr. Keener, but you're gonna have to dig into this one to make it right. At this point I feel your engine is unsafe, and I would not even drive it until I had this issue fixed.

I say pull off the intake, and post the pic's.
I can not see how changing oil will help with what you describe.

Just My opinion
Good luck
Jim

 

Warhead....I am refering to the right side of the engine....my bad. So, does #4 and #6 have the same cross-over. I imagine the answer is yes. The exhaust is not overwhelming for me, just my wife. I can smell it on my cloths after driving the car. She has asthma so any type of chemcial in the air usual creates a problem. Cracked head? I will dig in and let you know what I find.

 

Your wife should be able to enjoy the car as much as you.
You imagine correct, on the crossover.
4 cylinders feed into the crossover, #3,4,5,& 6.
The right side of the engine is the passenger side.
If you need any help, feel free to pm me for help.
Jim

 

It is a 46 year old car. It sounds like nobody has done any major work on the engine. It is tired and has blow by and needs a overhaul. To save time money and effort, just pull the engine and rebuild it.
If you have to just run it for now, don't mess with any kind of flush, when you have the time and money rebuild it.
Quit making a band aid and do it right.............
Gene