Well if there's ever a good reason to be proactive with your nylon timing gears, take a look at mine. I didn't realize they'd ever get this bad! I haven't been able to drive the car in the time I've owned it due to this. This is the '83.





If I had the means I'd yank this boat anchor out but for now just want to get it running. I imagine with it like this there's junk in the oil pan too..

 

Yep pretty safe bet there is junk in the pan. Looks like you couldn't be any closer to having the chain skip. Ours were bad as well, nylon totally gone, but the cam gear wasn't quite as bad as yours (pics in my build link). Its amazing how much wear some these Olds engines can have & still keep running.

 

Yours wasn't half as bad, pulling the pan is going to be fun from what I've read. I guess the best course of action is replace the chain and gears and then remove the pan. I hope the lower gear comes off without a puller, I don't feel like making another trip out to rent a tool that may or may not work..

 

You can still get a few more hours out of that one.

 

Agreed, the aluminum teeth haven't even started to bend over like wet grass yet.

 

You can still get a few more hours out of that one.
=================
Oh, yeah, it's still got teeth on it!

I have pulled the oil pan with the engine in place, it's not so bad
1/4 drive Universal socket, size 3/8", for the hard to reach bolts.
Take the motor mounts out of the way and lift the engine a bit
turn the crank to a favorable position- #1/2 rods near the bottom?

remove the oil pump and clean it out real good. Or, real well.

 

LOL yeah every other post says I might as well pull the engine and as much as I'd like to, I'm not there yet so we'll see how that goes. I already have the crossover off so that's one less thing to deal with. I just wonder how badly the metal filings from that gear went through the engine. Probably sediment in the pan from that too.

 

How many miles were on this one?
Hopefully the small particals were trapped in the oil filter before they could do too much harm.

 

And the big chunks just sink to the bottom.

 

When replacing gears and chain, consider pulling the pan first, the front cover second (realize the OP's timing chain cover is already removed), then reinstall the front cover first and the pan last. This will make both removing and installing the front cover easier and probably result in a better seal near the front of the oil pan and cover.

Replacing the gears and chain is good preventative maintenance so that internal engine parts are not damaged and it restores some lost performance. Imagine (or measure if you like) how late the valve timing becomes due to a stretched chain and worn gears. The large pieces of the cam gear nylon can and do restrict oil flow by clogging the oil pump pick-up screen.

As a might as well, if you have the time and money, replace the valve seals and remove any remnants of the old ones out of the oil pan while it is removed.

 

This motor had 143k on it, really hasn't changed since I bought it two years ago. It didn't have much power at all and stumbled and stalled on occasion when I did take it out. This summer it wouldn't run at all anymore and I knew this had to be done ASAP.

At this point would it make sense for me to replace the timing set and then remove the pan? Or should I have both apart simultaneously?

 

Look on the bright side, at least it's not a tech 4.
http://allmybase.com/2011/05/01/camshaft-timing-win/

 

Really, most of the small particles most likely have been pumped through the engine already & drained out (or caught in the filter)when the oil was changed. The bigger ones are just gonna stay on the bottom. My only concern is the pick up might be clogged. How was the oil pressure?

 

Like said above, put the front together then reinstall the pan. I would not replace gear with another nylon one, just my choice. If dampner is worn at front seal, install seal sleeve.

 

If you just want to get it on the road, then just throw a cheap timing set on there, get the cover back on with lots of RTV around the pan seal, and beat on it. I don't think any replacement sets have nylon teeth. The really cheap ones aren't rollers, but that's OK. I'm assuming you want to play with this thing and think about a serious rebuild later.
No need to drop the pan. Damage already done. Use good filters.

 

My replacement set is a good Cloyes single roller. My initial plan is to just get it on the road, a swap or rebuild isn't a priority right now as I have two other cars needing attention. Still want to do it right though, I've already done that with the rest of the car (brakes, exhaust, you name it). When it needs an engine it'll get one I figure.

 

It would be a good idea to drop the pan, get the oil pump out & do a good cleaning/flush on it, or since you are there put a new one in. Oil pumps aren't overly pricey. Once you have it all back together, grab some cheap oil & a couple of filters to do some "flush" oil changes. One right after you get it running again, drop the oil when its still hot. Then another oil change after you drive it around the block a few times. After that I would then change it a third time to a good 10W30 and add something like the Bardahl 2 additive. I find that stuff works really good in older engines. This should get rid of the majority of any else sitting inside the engine.

 

Sounds like a plan. Would it be opening a can of worms to try to do the rear main seal while it's off?

Got the new chain on there today and painted the front cover. Tomorrow I hope to put that back and move on to the dreaded pan. I don't have a u-joint socket but I do have a small open end wrench for the hard to get to bolts, we'll see how that goes.

 

NO! not good all of those timing gear parts WILL clog the oil pump pickup and thats not good.

 

You can do the main seal in car but very tough to do most times. I got some small stiff round and square bar that would fit. I did mine out of car but crank still in, engine upside down. I tapped the bars through, pulled out little chunks at a time, very tedious. I went with the AMC 6 rubber seal in place of the rope seal.

 

New front crankshaft seal in the cover would be a good idea if not already doing it. You may as well wait to put the front cover on after you drop the pan. Will be easier to put it back on with out the oil pan there. As stated by Olds 307 rear seal is doable but time consuming. I know on my 350 I had wanted to use a rubber seal instead of the rope seal. However my crankshaft had "grooves" specifically ground in where the rope seal sits. Other Olds folk will know what the technical term is for this. These grooves would tear a rubber seal to pieces in no time & it would have taken to much off the seal area to have it ground flat. So I went with the rope seal. Just an FYI.

 

If the rear main is not leaking, consider leaving it alone. Oil the timing chain and gears by pouring oil on them before installing the front cover. Install the front cover with the oil pan removed and then install the oil pan.

The front cover can be installed with the pan on but it is easier and results in a better seal if the pan is installed after the cover.

 

Those grooves won't tear the seals to pieces. I do have very minor leakage on the 350. I did the same seal on my 403, no leakage. The leakage is minor, it barely collects enough to drip. My track would send me home, if it was any amount.

 

Well removed the mount bolts and the exhaust is disconnected. Tried jacking it up by the pan, doesn't seem to want to budge on the left side, block starts going up at an angle, not sure what's going on. Do you sometimes have to pry at rusted motor mounts to free them? Trans linkage isn't connected. My motor mounts don't look too good either. I feel like my jack is undersized for what I'm trying to do too.

Wish I had a hoist and could do what needs doing. I hate doing piece by piece stuff when the best approach is obviously yanking it all out and freshening up. Very frustrating!

 

That jack's plenty big.

Sometimes you just need a BIG prybar to help "persuade" the sticky bits.

- Eric

 

Your best bet is putting your old junk balancer back onto the crank snout and jacking it up on that.

 

I thought about that, I'll have to give that a try next. Part of the problem I had was it began to get very difficult to jack when the right mount was up about an inch, and I didn't want to force it and buckle the pan. This is new territory for me.

 

Definitely better to jack it on the crank. Use a piece of lumber that will fit up between the balancer and the oil pan, and project down just a little below the oil pan. Once it's up, you can chock some lumber under the motor mounts to hold it there so you can remove the jack.

- Eric

 

That did the trick! I got a 2x6 and cut a notch in the top to fit the damper and sure enough the left mount was stuck and popped loose. I got the motor quite high and it looks like I can access all the bolts, at least on the left side. I assume once I let that side down some I can tip the motor from the right and gain access over there. The trans dipstick is jammed against the heater box so I'm up and over as far as I can go.

I had to take the actual mount off the motor to get to the pan flange, there is a part that folded over covering it. Luckily no drama when removing that. The mount looks like garbage.

Tomorrow I hope to take the starter out, drain the oil, and start removing the bolts. It probably would've made more sense to just chock the motor evenly on each side but I like the access doing it this way gave me so far. If anyone sees anything I'm missing or safety precautions please let me know!

Left brace:




Good access on the left side:


Motor mount:

 

Should be good enough. (So long as you can drop the pan enough to slide it out that is).
The motor mount is supposed to be 1 piece, so yours is most definitely garbage. Anchor 2328 is the part number for new ones.

P.S.: Also, other tips that will save you an hour of aggravation....... Once you bolt the new mounts to the block, hit the **** out of the flanges outward a few times with a big effen hammer, so they don't bind and have a hard time seating on your frame pads. When you tighten the through bolt, they will suck back in.

There ain't a big ten college in the country that can teach you these lessons. You get the benefit of learning through my suffering.

The easiest way to clean out the plastic pieces from the oil pump pickup screen is to unbolt the oil pump, and huck it into the trash can. 2 bolts and you're done. No gasket, or rtv involved. Sealed power Part # 22441203 for the new pump.

 

See now that's the type of BS I'd run into and it'd take me another half hour and multiple contorted positions under the car trying to figure it out.. thanks!!

Today got the pan out finally. One of the more time consuming aspects of this project is the fact there are metric and standard sizes all over the place. Number one cylinder is still at TDC, not sure if that helped me here or not but with the engine as high as I could get it, the pan came out. The only thing it wouldn't clear initially was the flywheel. Definitely a very involved job.

Amazingly, I didn't find any chunks in the pan or the pickup, kind of baffles me. Just a lot of sludge, probably could've left it but at least now I can put a new gasket on it.