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If he didn't know that would happen when you mill heads, should he be doing any of your work ? If the heads cc 77 now, what did you tell him you wanted ? 77 cc's would be about what you get when you only remove .030". Find out what they were when he started and what they are now. How far in the hole do the pistons sit ?
^^^^^.
My question is, why are you paying him if you’re relatively sure he’s out to lunch, WOW!!!
Ask him to cc them while you’re there. I’ll bet he refuses. Then refuse to pay him.
Wtf people pay for shyt when they know it’s not right is beyond me. I go thru this all the time. People have gone elsewhere then come to me, then complain about how much it’ll cost to correct whatever crap they have. My response is always the same, why did you pay for it in the first place?!
Best of luck in your project nonetheless.
Last edited by cutlassefi; September 30th, 2023 at 03:06 PM.
I'm sure plenty of builders have had one get away from them but I should have done some more homework, his math got him in this trouble as I pointed out in one of the other posts. I didnt catch his mistake in time and the heads got built. He's been paid so holding funds back isn't an option and getting pissed about it wont solve nothing either lol.
Last edited by skyhigh; September 30th, 2023 at 03:46 PM.
Got my engine back, got the block painted, have tall valve covers ordered as Mark's rockers hit stock height covers. Have a thermostat housing coming as well, still have to mount my cvf pullies, carb and them I think I'm ready to schedule a dyno day around the end of Nov
What valve covers are those, Holley? Do they have baffles?
those were some crappy mt covers, there on there just to keep **** out lol, but the pair I wanted to use are my eddy finned set, same as the mt and Holley but they won't work due to baffles in them. A spacer and thick gasket prob would have done the job but ramair won't ship to canada and the other spacer was more money than the tall alum valve covers if you can believe that.
those were some crappy mt covers, there on there just to keep **** out lol, but the pair I wanted to use are my eddy finned set, same as the mt and Holley but they won't work due to baffles in them. A spacer and thick gasket prob would have done the job but ramair won't ship to canada and the other spacer was more money than the tall alum valve covers if you can believe that.
My Edelbrock set of those finned covers have no baffles. They did want to leak, I had to Optimum Grey a set of the rigid valve discontinued Permadry valve cover gaskets to stop the leak. So the fabricated aluminum valve covers may be the best bet over 50 year old valve covers.
My Eldebrocks are baffeled for PVC and Breather, I got the NOS set from a member right here on this fine site. I have studs in the VC and just used a thick cork gasket, threw it on dry and have no leaks. But since the new motor has roller rockers I just got a tall set of fab Alum ones coming in the mail.
Got the thermostat in, housing painted and installed, got the oil fill drove in, have carb studs and a russell fuel line coming in the mail, some nice billet specialties breathers and PVC, tall fab valve covers are in the mail as well, Distributor hold down and valve cover gaskets coming in the mail, awaiting a quote on mill for the heads and intake to get them where I wanted them to begin with and waiting for the day I can dyno tune.
Last edited by skyhigh; October 21st, 2023 at 08:27 AM.
as cast there 77CC, I told him I wanted them 65CC, He claims he cut them to 70CC with a .030 mill, he also said pistons were 0.13 in the hole. There certainly have been lot of red flags to say the least, between Christians build and mine it seems we found the shops that seem to wing it.
before running it I would stick a starter on it while on the stand and do a compression test.
.13 in the hole is way to much. Did you mean .013”? What pistons did you use?
before running it I would stick a starter on it while on the stand and do a compression test.
.13 in the hole is way to much. Did you mean .013”? What pistons did you use?
Yes Dale that's what I meant was 0.013, It is going out to another shop in the near future so I will ask him to check the compression. The speedmaster tall Olds valve covers showed up yesterday, ad says there baffled everywhere you go to read about them, they are not baffled, I had it in my head to drill for breather but no baffle is a deal breaker with pvc. Another bad ad and waste of $$, guess I will be back to the drawing board, next option will be rocket racing spacer I guess.
Last edited by skyhigh; October 22nd, 2023 at 08:27 AM.
He must have done a minimal deck cut or didn't even measure it. Mine was cut .016" and ended up at .003" in the hole. Either way, the best piston for a stock Olds 350. Yeah, and Mark's measuring multiple sets of heads and none measuring 77cc. I saw another guy on YouTube measure everything in a set, they were 79cc.
Last edited by olds 307 and 403; October 22nd, 2023 at 12:14 PM.
He must have done a minimal deck cut or didn't even measure it. Mine was cut .016" and ended up at .003" in the hole. Either way, the best piston for a stock Olds 350. Yeah, and Mark's measuring multiple sets of heads and none measuring 77cc. I saw another guy on YouTube measure everything in a set, they were 79cc.
what piston is this guy using? can’t look through 5 pages
What a cluster fvck.. this thing isn’t even 9:1 if it’s using basic felpro head gaskets
stop, just stop everything…. Pull the heads and verify the CC.
If you’re taking about the Mahle piston I designed, it’s 013 taller than most other aftermarket pistons.
Typically they’ll yield just over 9.0:1 with a 68cc chamber and stock type gasket.
To this day I’ll never understand the fear of putting compression into Olds engines…it boggles my mind.
guys put big money out for pistons, rods and heads, then don’t put compression in the thing when the parts are designed to take compression. The difference between low octane and mid or premium is in consequential for the amount these cars are driven. The 350 I just did and posted about has just over 10, with cast pistons, factory rods and heads.
I would have put 10.25 minimum in this one. the lies about todays gas being crap are just that, lies.
To this day I’ll never understand the fear of putting compression into Olds engines…it boggles my mind.
guys put big money out for pistons, rods and heads, then don’t put compression in the thing when the parts are designed to take compression. The difference between low octane and mid or premium is in consequential for the amount these cars are driven. The 350 I just did and posted about has just over 10, with cast pistons, factory rods and heads.
I would have put 10.25 minimum in this one. the lies about todays gas being crap are just that, lies.
If I do end up getting these cut again maybe 10-1 isn't such a bad idea, so that would mean what taking the heads down to like 62CC?
If I do end up getting these cut again maybe 10-1 isn't such a bad idea, so that would mean what taking the heads down to like 62CC?
whatever it takes to get over 10 do it. you can reuse the Cometics. Yes, 62 would get you 10
that should be your MIN in my opinion…
don’t worry about the intake ..slot the bolt holes to make it work. a full point compression going from 9 to 10 in that cubic inch is 50 ft lbs of TQ and least 40 hp
Last edited by CANADIANOLDS; October 24th, 2023 at 02:43 PM.
whatever it takes to get over 10 do it. you can reuse the Cometics. Yes, 62 would get you 10
that should be your MIN in my opinion…
don’t worry about the intake ..slot the bolt holes to make it work. a full point compression going from 9 to 10 in that cubic inch is 50 ft lbs of TQ and least 40 hp
Thanks so much Dale, the advice is much appreciated. I still haven't got my quote back from Saunders or if he even wants to do it lol, called on Friday. I might have to find a shop in London if this don't work out. But anyhow this is my problem lol, thanks again.
I’ve never seen that much of a difference in upping it one ratio. What was the combination you saw that on?
Absolutely it will. Especially at the low end of the range. You’ll gain much more percentage wise going from 9 to 10 than say from 11 to 12
on a mismatched combo, which this is, it will be substantial. but not as much gain on a well sorted out combination.
I gained 60+ hp going from 10.5 to 11.5 between my 08 and 09 EMC engine when they upper the ratio by 1 point . Then with the 11.5 in 2011 and a cam and intake change the total gain was another 15 for 70hp.
Absolutely it will. Especially at the low end of the range. You’ll gain much more percentage wise going from 9 to 10 than say from 11 to 12
on a mismatched combo, which this is, it will be substantial. but not as much gain on a well sorted out combination.
I gained 60+ hp going from 10.5 to 11.5 between my 08 and 09 EMC engine when they upper the ratio by 1 point . Then with the 11.5 in 2011 and a cam and intake change the total gain was another 15 for 70hp.
What is mismatched, I thought I bought all the best parts I could throw at it, what can I do to make this build better, I no I have had a hell of a time finding a good builder , machinist to help me through this, I want to get this finished up, the fun and excitement about this build is going away.
Nothing is mismatched. Unfortunately, Edelbrock's 68cc head still isn't out, which your build hinged on. It would be ideal if they would follow Mark's advice and go a few smaller CC on their small block head like the BBO version. We saw a nice 358 build from Rogue Ryder, it put out nearly 450 HP with these pistons and 9.6 to 1. Goinlg from a 670 cfm to 750 cfm carb wlould have probably crossed 450 hp.
Last edited by olds 307 and 403; October 25th, 2023 at 08:14 AM.
Nothing is mismatched. Unfortunately, Edelbrock's 68cc head still isn't out, which your build hinged on. It would be ideal if they would follow Mark's advice and go a few smaller CC on their small block head like the BBO version. We saw a nice 358 build from Rogue Ryder, it put out nearly 450 HP with these pistons and 9.6 to 1. Goinlg from a 670 cfm to 750 cfm carb wlould have probably crossed 450 hp.
yeah I couldn't wait any longer for the new sb heads but by the time I find a reliable machinist and builder the heads will be cast by then lol, but all seriousness aside I called BHP in London and he like I wouldn't cut .050 off a head so he won't do it, I'm not sure what's going on with machine shop over on this side of the border. Next call will be to forest and forest i guess, hope they do all in house. If anybody has builders and shops in sw ont region they want to recommend I'm all ears.
What is mismatched, I thought I bought all the best parts I could throw at it, what can I do to make this build better, I no I have had a hell of a time finding a good builder , machinist to help me through this, I want to get this finished up, the fun and excitement about this build is going away.
3:08 gears in a full weight A body, correct?
the speedmaster heads ports won’t give you enough air speed on a 358” engine..that’s just a fact. The port cross section and volume is just to big for your cubic inches…which kills low and mid range TQ. With 3:08’s , you’ll need all the low and mid range TQ you can get.
then the cam was installed straight up…supposedly, knowing the compression is a full point lower that what it should be.
you also said your Machinist port matched the intake? So he actually blew out the int port exits to match the big block head port size? another mistake..that only added more port volume/ cross section to an already oversized runner with slow air speed.
the 2.07” int valve will also hurt low rpm air speed. The valve size to bore ratio is out of whack. whoever says they won’t cut the heads the amount you want thinks they know more than what the think they know. The speed master deck surface is .500” thick..way more than enough material to be cut a bunch.
you can easy check how much your heads were cut by measuring the overall height..stock they are 3.858” +/-
here’s how foolish it is to cut a small block intake to fit a big block port head.
when whacking a bunch off the head to get compression up, you are actually moving the centerline of the ports to be more inline with each other, which is a good thing
then you go and screw that up by cutting the intake to drop it back down again for a horrible mismatch,,then some smart guy blows out the top of the intake port in the manifold thinking that’s a good thing because he port matched it.
We just seen a build with the same pistons, heads, pretty much same cam specs etc make almost 450 HP and TQ, anywhere in that ball park would be a win in my books. I never said the builder installed the cam straight up, as a matter of fact he said it was degreed, Mark wanted me to ? him on the straight up thing. I wanted him to port match but he never did so that's another good thing I guess, What gear would you recommend? I only have a 3 speed and I like to drive down to grand bend lol Like I said in the beginning of this build, I'm green as green can be when it comes to motor work, I do pay others to do my work for me, the lack of skill, shops in the area is a problem, I wish I lived in Michigan, this would have been done long ago, done right, and alot less $$, its rare for a shop to have an engine dyno in my neck of the woods, 99% seem to have chassis dynos only. So I called a shop in Fenwick (New Generation Engine), he's almost 3 hrs away and he has all machining in house including a dyno, his ruff quote was 2 grand to take the heads off strip them bare, cut them to 62 CC and the intake work, re assemble and a day dyno session. I have a basic toolbox Dale, dont have those type of tools lol.
Last edited by skyhigh; October 25th, 2023 at 02:29 PM.
We just seen a build with the same pistons, heads, pretty much same cam specs etc make almost 450 HP and TQ, anywhere in that ball park would be a win in my books. I never said the builder installed the cam straight up, as a matter of fact he said it was degreed, Mark wanted me to ? him on the straight up thing. I wanted him to port match but he never did so that's another good thing I guess, What gear would you recommend? I only have a 3 speed and I like to drive down to grand bend lol Like I said in the beginning of this build, I'm green as green can be when it comes to motor work, I do pay others to do my work for me, the lack of skill, shops in the area is a problem, I wish I lived in Michigan, this would have been done long ago, done right, and alot less $$, its rare for a shop to have an engine dyno in my neck of the woods, 99% seem to have chassis dynos only. So I called a shop in Fenwick (New Generation Engine), he's almost 3 hrs away and he has all machining in house including a dyno, his ruff quote was 2 grand to take the heads off strip them bare, cut them to 62 CC and the intake work, re assemble and a day dyno session. I have a basic toolbox Dale, dont have those type of tools lol.
September 30th, 2023 | 03:02 PM
I wish I could have done things differently as well, live and learn so they say.
