I'm in
Out of Line, Everytime😉
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,045
From: Melville, Saskatchewan
I hope a 3 core is enough but should be on a A body, 2 extra inches wider and better airflow than my 88 Cutlass Euro grills. I know my Champion 3 core was marginal on my G body with a 403. I ended up putting it in my Olds powered 4x4 with the Olds 350 and better air flow, never above 185. I plan to take full advantage of the much larger opening and use this monster along with only an auxiliary trans cooler to maximize cooling for my soon to be 4.390" bore motor. https://www.coldcaseradiators.com/pr...mance-radiator
Last edited by olds 307 and 403; Feb 15, 2019 at 04:14 AM.
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,661
From: Norfolk, Va
lookin good !
I hope the 3 row rad with narrower tanks keep that bad boy cool. The circulation around the inner trans cooler could be marginal with a narrow tank. Is the trans cooler a 1 rib or 2 or 3 ? Most BB, HD, rads had 3 rib inner rad coolers . Are you considering running an auxiliary trans cooler or heat sink cooler as well.
I hope it works out OK .
Eric
I hope the 3 row rad with narrower tanks keep that bad boy cool. The circulation around the inner trans cooler could be marginal with a narrow tank. Is the trans cooler a 1 rib or 2 or 3 ? Most BB, HD, rads had 3 rib inner rad coolers . Are you considering running an auxiliary trans cooler or heat sink cooler as well.
I hope it works out OK .
Eric
lookin good !
I hope the 3 row rad with narrower tanks keep that bad boy cool. The circulation around the inner trans cooler could be marginal with a narrow tank. Is the trans cooler a 1 rib or 2 or 3 ? Most BB, HD, rads had 3 rib inner rad coolers . Are you considering running an auxiliary trans cooler or heat sink cooler as well.
I hope it works out OK .
Eric
I hope the 3 row rad with narrower tanks keep that bad boy cool. The circulation around the inner trans cooler could be marginal with a narrow tank. Is the trans cooler a 1 rib or 2 or 3 ? Most BB, HD, rads had 3 rib inner rad coolers . Are you considering running an auxiliary trans cooler or heat sink cooler as well.
I hope it works out OK .
Eric
I ended up getting this radiator. Stamped tanks, 3-core aluminum, welded construction, and a great deal at $189. This unit has exactly 1 inch narrower tanks than the original. I couldn't go wider because it has to fit between the frame rails so for the price I can move the mounting brackets 1/2 inch each side.
My evil plan is all coming together!
My evil plan is all coming together!
Thread Starter
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,661
From: Norfolk, Va
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 8,472
From: Central Fl
Actually peak tq is at 4400. You always throw out the first few numbers.
HP dropped off bigtime in the end because it hit the rev limiter. You can hear it in the video if Dailey wants to post it.
31* of timing and a conservative air fuel. There's probably more in it but no need to stretch it. It hit the numbers I promised. And pulling almost an inch of vacuum with a 950cfm throttle body, go figure. Who says a 950 is too big!
Thanks Dailey!
HP dropped off bigtime in the end because it hit the rev limiter. You can hear it in the video if Dailey wants to post it.
31* of timing and a conservative air fuel. There's probably more in it but no need to stretch it. It hit the numbers I promised. And pulling almost an inch of vacuum with a 950cfm throttle body, go figure. Who says a 950 is too big!
Thanks Dailey!
Last edited by cutlassefi; Feb 19, 2019 at 02:27 PM.
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,878
From: Thousand Oaks Ca
Actually peak tq is at 4400. You always throw out the first few numbers.
HP dropped off bigtime in the end because it hit the rev limiter. You can hear it in the video if Dailey wants to post it.
31* of timing and a conservative air fuel. There's probably more in it but no need to stretch it. It hit the numbers I promised. And pulling almost an inch of vacuum with a 950cfm throttle body, go figure. Who says a 950 is too big!
Thanks Dailey!
HP dropped off bigtime in the end because it hit the rev limiter. You can hear it in the video if Dailey wants to post it.
31* of timing and a conservative air fuel. There's probably more in it but no need to stretch it. It hit the numbers I promised. And pulling almost an inch of vacuum with a 950cfm throttle body, go figure. Who says a 950 is too big!
Thanks Dailey!
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,661
From: Norfolk, Va
Actually peak tq is at 4400. You always throw out the first few numbers.
HP dropped off bigtime in the end because it hit the rev limiter. You can hear it in the video if Dailey wants to post it.
31* of timing and a conservative air fuel. There's probably more in it but no need to stretch it. It hit the numbers I promised. And pulling almost an inch of vacuum with a 950cfm throttle body, go figure. Who says a 950 is too big!
Thanks Dailey!
HP dropped off bigtime in the end because it hit the rev limiter. You can hear it in the video if Dailey wants to post it.
31* of timing and a conservative air fuel. There's probably more in it but no need to stretch it. It hit the numbers I promised. And pulling almost an inch of vacuum with a 950cfm throttle body, go figure. Who says a 950 is too big!
Thanks Dailey!
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 8,472
From: Central Fl
Last edited by cutlassefi; Feb 19, 2019 at 05:12 PM.
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,878
From: Thousand Oaks Ca
I just asked what the VE was on the dyno data sheets. You don't post enough data to figure the the VE.
Last edited by VORTECPRO; Feb 19, 2019 at 05:29 PM.
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From: Central Fl
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Posts: 1,878
From: Thousand Oaks Ca
Why are you afraid of posting all the Super Flow data the dyno kicks out. As you know these tests are very controversial because of the very low RPM at which the HP peak is achieved. Myself, I'd just post the Super Flow page with the VE. As you can see its just not me that questions the VE numbers. Below is an example:
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/real...fi-t13676.html
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/real...fi-t13676.html
Last edited by VORTECPRO; Feb 19, 2019 at 05:42 PM.
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 8,472
From: Central Fl
Why are you afraid of posting all the Super Flow data the dyno kicks out. As you know these tests are very controversial because of the very low RPM at which the HP peak is achieved. Myself, I'd just post the Super Flow page with the VE. As you can see its just not me that questions the VE numbers. Below is an example:
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/real...fi-t13676.html
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/real...fi-t13676.html
However I’d be more than happy to send you the entire ECU tune if you like. That way you can make of it whatever you want. How about that?
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,878
From: Thousand Oaks Ca
Respectfully I have another question. How is it possible have more TQ @ the HP peak? I have never seen anything like this, can anyone answer this? Just trying to learn here.
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 8,472
From: Central Fl
Congratulations on the impressive showing.
I was expecting peak hp at 5800-5900 rpm not 5100. Is the resultant peak a function of the stroke, the cam profile or both?
I was expecting peak hp at 5800-5900 rpm not 5100. Is the resultant peak a function of the stroke, the cam profile or both?
Peak power actually occurred at about 5400 or so. That’s a by product of the wide lobe sep for the most part. The RPM counter on the dyno doesn’t quite match what the ECU is seeing. It’s off by about 200rpm or so. This has been verified by multiple different ECU’s on this dyno.
I was actually expecting a bit more hp but was very happy with the torque and where it occurred. Should be a fun drive, even at 6000’ and above.
Last edited by cutlassefi; Feb 19, 2019 at 06:01 PM.
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Posts: 781
CJSDAD, Congrats on a hot small block Olds!
I believe Vortecpro is merely trying to figure out how the dyno curves are occurring, and why there is no VE number being posted.
He is asking for facts, after all.
What was corrected on the second dyno chart?
I believe Vortecpro is merely trying to figure out how the dyno curves are occurring, and why there is no VE number being posted.
He is asking for facts, after all.
What was corrected on the second dyno chart?
Thread Starter
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,661
From: Norfolk, Va
I dont really care what VP is asking. Even if the dyno results verify something for him or not, I'm still taking the engine.
Quick story to validate my point. When I was a kid, I went fishing with my Dad and the neighbor across the street. We took the neighbor's car, a 73~75 Monte Carlo that his son had replaced the blown 350 with a 327. Dad asked what kind of mileage it averaged 'cause Dad was a bit neurotic about that kinda thing. Ol' Whitey said something very memorable to my Dad, "I dont give a #uck Perry, I'm not gonna get rid of it based on mileage!"
I'm building a once-in-a-lifetime kinda car and I dont really give a #uck about the mileage, VE, or any other metric involved. If it needs a bit of tweaking when it's all together so be it. Ill give Mark a call and discuss it with him. But I'm keeping that engine!
Now if VP wants to further discuss the aspects of dyno results with Mark, he can do it in his own thread.
Quick story to validate my point. When I was a kid, I went fishing with my Dad and the neighbor across the street. We took the neighbor's car, a 73~75 Monte Carlo that his son had replaced the blown 350 with a 327. Dad asked what kind of mileage it averaged 'cause Dad was a bit neurotic about that kinda thing. Ol' Whitey said something very memorable to my Dad, "I dont give a #uck Perry, I'm not gonna get rid of it based on mileage!"
I'm building a once-in-a-lifetime kinda car and I dont really give a #uck about the mileage, VE, or any other metric involved. If it needs a bit of tweaking when it's all together so be it. Ill give Mark a call and discuss it with him. But I'm keeping that engine!
Now if VP wants to further discuss the aspects of dyno results with Mark, he can do it in his own thread.
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 8,472
From: Central Fl
CJSDAD, Congrats on a hot small block Olds!
I believe Vortecpro is merely trying to figure out how the dyno curves are occurring, and why there is no VE number being posted.
He is asking for facts, after all. No he’s not. Open your eyes Ryan. Look at his history with me, he questions everything I do, no matter what. By his own admission he’s a “Dyno guy”. Why can’t he figure this out on his own? All the info he needs is in this thread, period. He’s just being the total a hole that he’s always been.
What was corrected on the second dyno chart? Weather, as is always the case.
I believe Vortecpro is merely trying to figure out how the dyno curves are occurring, and why there is no VE number being posted.
He is asking for facts, after all. No he’s not. Open your eyes Ryan. Look at his history with me, he questions everything I do, no matter what. By his own admission he’s a “Dyno guy”. Why can’t he figure this out on his own? All the info he needs is in this thread, period. He’s just being the total a hole that he’s always been.
What was corrected on the second dyno chart? Weather, as is always the case.
Last edited by cutlassefi; Feb 20, 2019 at 04:34 AM.
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Posts: 195
Exactly. I would think that as least some are here to build once of a lifetime cars/motors ~ whatever. Few of us like myself probably have childhood dreams still to check off the bucket list. We have one car under a full restoration and another 403 going into my brother’s car that was built some 20+ years ago as life/kids has been priority. Take care all.
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,661
From: Norfolk, Va
No sweat Mark. I'm a big boy and know how to overlook insignificant things. I have seen these posts pop up in other threads as well. It sorta comes with the territory when you're that good. Someone always wants the crown from you. Discredit seems to be the tool or weapon of choice on the interwebz.
Now, back to business. Obviously this new monster of mine will fit the factory opening but what about the new accessories? The new ECU will be going inside the vehicle under the dash somewhere but how big a hole will I need for the wiring to go through? Should I mount it to metal or something non-metalic? We already discussed routing the fuel lines along the firewall after the headers are in place to avoid excess heat. Being a 67, which headers to go with? SB headers seem to be non-existant. Has anyone actually tried SB headers in a 67 lately? Most new headers look identical to the ones supposedly made for the 66~67. Since I have stock ride height should I just go with BB headers? It is a 427 after all. Does the engine have a thermostat or do I need to get one? WHEW! So many questions now that the engine is a reality!
Now, back to business. Obviously this new monster of mine will fit the factory opening but what about the new accessories? The new ECU will be going inside the vehicle under the dash somewhere but how big a hole will I need for the wiring to go through? Should I mount it to metal or something non-metalic? We already discussed routing the fuel lines along the firewall after the headers are in place to avoid excess heat. Being a 67, which headers to go with? SB headers seem to be non-existant. Has anyone actually tried SB headers in a 67 lately? Most new headers look identical to the ones supposedly made for the 66~67. Since I have stock ride height should I just go with BB headers? It is a 427 after all. Does the engine have a thermostat or do I need to get one? WHEW! So many questions now that the engine is a reality!
Last edited by cjsdad; Feb 20, 2019 at 07:09 AM.
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 3,688
From: Delta BC Canada
Headers
Now, back to business. Obviously this new monster of mine will fit the factory opening but what about the new accessories? The new ECU will be going inside the vehicle under the dash somewhere but how big a hole will I need for the wiring to go through? Should I mount it to metal or something non-metalic? We already discussed routing the fuel lines along the firewall after the headers are in place to avoid excess heat. Being a 67, which headers to go with? SB headers seem to be non-existant. Has anyone actually tried SB headers in a 67 lately? Most new headers look identical to the ones supposedly made for the 66~67. Since I have stock ride height should I just go with BB headers? It is a 427 after all. Does the engine have a thermostat or do I need to get one? WHEW! So many questions now that the engine is a reality![/QUOTE]
You can't run BBO headers on your SBO stroker. Deck height determines the application not displacement.
here is the best header available. Good luck with the rest of the build.
https://americanracingheaders.com/co...4-1977-headers
You can't run BBO headers on your SBO stroker. Deck height determines the application not displacement.
here is the best header available. Good luck with the rest of the build.
https://americanracingheaders.com/co...4-1977-headers
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,661
From: Norfolk, Va
Now, back to business. Obviously this new monster of mine will fit the factory opening but what about the new accessories? The new ECU will be going inside the vehicle under the dash somewhere but how big a hole will I need for the wiring to go through? Should I mount it to metal or something non-metalic? We already discussed routing the fuel lines along the firewall after the headers are in place to avoid excess heat. Being a 67, which headers to go with? SB headers seem to be non-existant. Has anyone actually tried SB headers in a 67 lately? Most new headers look identical to the ones supposedly made for the 66~67. Since I have stock ride height should I just go with BB headers? It is a 427 after all. Does the engine have a thermostat or do I need to get one? WHEW! So many questions now that the engine is a reality!
You can't run BBO headers on your SBO stroker. Deck height determines the application not displacement.
here is the best header available. Good luck with the rest of the build.
https://americanracingheaders.com/co...4-1977-headers
While those are very nice headers, they are ridiculously expensive. They are more expensive than some transmissions. There are plenty of other quality headers out there that claim to fit 67 Cutlass but the reviews seem to say that on SBO applications they hang down a bit lower than BBO applications. All the research I have done says deck height determines how low they will hang.
Again, anyone have experience with putting headers on a 66~67 Cutlass lately? Thanks!
Out of Line, Everytime😉
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,045
From: Melville, Saskatchewan
Unfortunately short of the American Racing header's few full length exist for the early A body SBO. If you can live with Shorties, the Thornton headers should work. Basically until you try a set of full length headers in your car, you won't know if they will fit. It should be all around awesome.
Hookers under Hood
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 3,543
From: Ontario, Canada
I feel bad for Mark having to deal with guys like VP, especially when he doesn't need to waist his time commenting back to those posts. Mark is very much respected here on CO,
he goes out of his way to help so many guys here. He's an honest straight shooter and backs up his promises. You guys in the U.S.A are very lucky to have such an honest dedicated Oldsmobile engine builder!
We need to clone him and get one of him up to Canada haha.
Eric
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Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,645
From: Ft. Wayne, IN
Impressive numbers! However, I was kind of expecting higher #s w/ the alum heads on this build. These are similar #s to your earlier stroker SBO build with iron heads (I realize that one had TBI vs. this one has MPFI). Were the cams similar, or is the cam in this one milder offsetting any advantage of the alum heads? Not trying to be critical, both builds put up stout numbers. Just trying to learn here so I can plan out my build. Thanks.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,661
From: Norfolk, Va
Impressive numbers! However, I was kind of expecting higher #s w/ the alum heads on this build. These are similar #s to your earlier stroker SBO build with iron heads (I realize that one had TBI vs. this one has MPFI). Were the cams similar, or is the cam in this one milder offsetting any advantage of the alum heads? Not trying to be critical, both builds put up stout numbers. Just trying to learn here so I can plan out my build. Thanks.
