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REALLY, the only dyno I trust comes after a full-pull, you get a print-out with time and MPH over distance for your weight. THEN google Stan Weiss OLD Hp calculato and makes you CRY as you get a true representation on what Hp your making on that day, in those condition and with that set-up. Yet like Vortec/Mark said, that's a conservative dyno..
Every dyno is said to be conservative, every flow bench is stingy.LOL
I can only say my dyno is calibrated. AS YOU KNOW I never cry when comparing corrected dyno numbers to track performance, infact the people that know me know thats what I'am known for.
In this post above you try to misrepresent my question, what I tried to convey in my post on real olds power was: How is it possible this engine could make some much more TQ than HP, a valid question as I hadn't seen this before. I believe your testing was skewed. By asking this question your tried to make it seem I didn't know TQ and HP cross @ 5250 which was absurd then as it is now. I have a good understanding of how SF dyno works seeing one of it inventors was a fixture in my shop for years before his death. I'm starting to think after testing on the "Land and Sea" dyno myself maybe you have no data to show, maybe your dyno collects no data other HP and TQ.Honestly when you showed up on here with a dyno I was happy to see it, I've tested on that very same modified run stand you have there, and I can only say I hate that thing, the salesman that sold those things should be held accountable. Go ahead and post a picture of what holds the front of the engine up on that thing...........................how do you put any kind of restored type on engine on that without destroying the paint, much less distorting the pan itself? And thats just the start of the problems
Last edited by VORTECPRO; Jul 22, 2022 at 06:30 AM.
I can only say my dyno is calibrated. AS YOU KNOW I never cry when comparing corrected dyno numbers to track performance, infact the people that know me know thats what I'am known for.
Mark, THIS WAS NOT DIRECTED AT YOU OR YOUR DYNO! It was a general statement about "conservative" dyno's. When my 498 BBc was running NHRA Pro Stock, it was qualifying between 10 to 16th place? Steve Schmidt was always around 5th. So he said to the guys, "lets stop at my shop, and dyno this and see where you need to make more power"? So off they go to Steve's shop, Steve dyno's his engine that just ran that weekend. Set that as a baseline, then dyno's mine. On the same dyno, same setting, My 498 made 11Hp more then Steve's own engine. NOW THIS IS WHERE THE CONSERVATIVE dyno saying comes in. Steve goes onto say that his dyno is tight yada yada yada. Well they come home, same set up, run it on Fj Smiths dyno, and LOSE 100Hp. Now my 706 that was Scott Shaffarof's personal engine, built my Fulton and raced by Steve Johnson, those dyno #'s are not much use as there 2,3 or 4 stages thrown at it. We've had engines that were down well over 100Hp, out run the higher Hp stuff when it was time to race. AND that is the important part.
Point is, in a quick break down, I want my recently purchased W30 convert clone to be capable of running 11.30's. I don't care if the engine makes 1000Hp or 100Hp on the dyno. IF I get to my ET goal that is the main point. Now yes we get a Hp amount from a dyno, then we can extrapolate to where we can be ET wise. But as noted, guys "claim" there making X amount, yet there performance is different and in some cases drastically different. YES some has to do with car set ups etc. Yet there is usually an indicator of that with a ET vs MPH discrepancy. Dyno and flow bench is a tuning TOOL and should only be looked at as such.
I realize its not directed at me, no problem. I was just sayin I'am know for showing dyno HP @ the track. I've tested on two independent dyno's here in Texas, it was almost like a recording, even though I heard this at both dyno facilities:
Question: "How much power do you think your engine will make" Answer: VP It will be over 600 HP. Dyno Operator: Well.....this dyno here reads a little low, and I don't want you to be surprised. VP: You mean to tell me you have a conservative dyno? I've never seen a optimistic dyno before. First pull, dyno operator: This thing makes a lot of power, never seen this before with iron heads. Heres another quote from one of the operators "I can't believe the VE this thing makes, you make it look easy and it ain't"......................
So on both dyno's I left making more HP than I've seen on my own dyno, Why you ask, because their both out of calibration............
Last edited by VORTECPRO; Jul 22, 2022 at 06:29 AM.
Mark, THIS WAS NOT DIRECTED AT YOU OR YOUR DYNO! It was a general statement about "conservative" dyno's. When my 498 BBc was running NHRA Pro Stock, it was qualifying between 10 to 16th place? Steve Schmidt was always around 5th. So he said to the guys, "lets stop at my shop, and dyno this and see where you need to make more power"? So off they go to Steve's shop, Steve dyno's his engine that just ran that weekend. Set that as a baseline, then dyno's mine. On the same dyno, same setting, My 498 made 11Hp more then Steve's own engine. NOW THIS IS WHERE THE CONSERVATIVE dyno saying comes in. Steve goes onto say that his dyno is tight yada yada yada. Well they come home, same set up, run it on Fj Smiths dyno, and LOSE 100Hp. Now my 706 that was Scott Shaffarof's personal engine, built my Fulton and raced by Steve Johnson, those dyno #'s are not much use as there 2,3 or 4 stages thrown at it. We've had engines that were down well over 100Hp, out run the higher Hp stuff when it was time to race. AND that is the important part.
Point is, in a quick break down, I want my recently purchased W30 convert clone to be capable of running 11.30's. I don't care if the engine makes 1000Hp or 100Hp on the dyno. IF I get to my ET goal that is the main point. Now yes we get a Hp amount from a dyno, then we can extrapolate to where we can be ET wise. But as noted, guys "claim" there making X amount, yet there performance is different and in some cases drastically different. YES some has to do with car set ups etc. Yet there is usually an indicator of that with a ET vs MPH discrepancy. Dyno and flow bench is a tuning TOOL and should only be looked at as such.
Bernhard wrote:
When you say your engine was down 100 Hp and out ran the higher Hp engine is that number from the same dyno?
I realize its not directed at me, no problem. I was just sayin I'am know for showing dyno HP @ the track. I've tested on two independent dyno's here in Texas, it was almost like a recording, even though I heard this at both dyno facilities:
Question: "How much power do you think your engine will make" Answer: VP It will be over 600 HP. Dyno Operator: Well.....this dyno here reads a little low, and I don't want you to be surprised. VP: You mean to tell me you have a conservative dyno? I've never seen a optimistic dyno before. First pull, dyno operator: This thing makes a lot of power, never seen this before with iron heads. Heres another quote from one of the operators "I can't believe the VE this thing makes, you make it look easy and it ain't"......................
So on both dyno's I left making more HP than I've seen on my own dyno, Why you ask, because their both out of calibration............
I agree that it is an advantage to have accurate dyno numbers as you can assure your customers what they are getting can be validated down track.
When using a dyno as a tool to unlock performance does it matter if the dyno reads hi or low?
Will the dyno that is not calibrated 100% correctly lead you astray, or is 10 hp improvement the same on both dyno's ?
Bernhard wrote:
When you say your engine was down 100 Hp and out ran the higher Hp engine is that number from the same dyno?
NO Bernard, sorry if I mislead others. My guys kept getting outran but Steve. 10 to 12 qualifying positions. So Steve offered to dyno BOTH HIS and mine to see WHY they kept getting out qualified. Steve put his engine out of his car on first, got the baseline, then mine went on and made a bit more, like 14 or17Hp more. So inspection came back to a really GOOD chassis builder is still NOT a Bickle/Haas in this type of class racing.
BUT when they came home, they took the engine right to Fred (Fj Smith) and dyno'ed it. Fj's numbers we down 100 to what Schmidt's dyno #'s were. We just check it off to the US exchange rate, like with money!!!! LOL
This is going back to mids 1990's. I bought the engine from Mike around 2004.
NO Bernard, sorry if I mislead others. My guys kept getting outran but Steve. 10 to 12 qualifying positions. So Steve offered to dyno BOTH HIS and mine to see WHY they kept getting out qualified. Steve put his engine out of his car on first, got the baseline, then mine went on and made a bit more, like 14 or17Hp more. So inspection came back to a really GOOD chassis builder is still NOT a Bickle/Haas in this type of class racing.
BUT when they came home, they took the engine right to Fred (Fj Smith) and dyno'ed it. Fj's numbers we down 100 to what Schmidt's dyno #'s were. We just check it off to the US exchange rate, like with money!!!! LOL
This is going back to mids 1990's. I bought the engine from Mike around 2004.
Thanks for the reply you have a cool racing history.
I haven't had much lucky with the racing side. But have been fortunate to have been involved with various record setting class stuff. AS well as the $$$ to be able to purchase some very nice used stuff.
[QUOTE=cutlassefi;1441496]How is it that you’re now a Dyno expert when not long ago you were a Dyno dumbass? Just curious.
Here we go again......
49 posts on this thread and no foul language or insults.
And then there's you ! Once again for the second time this week on two separate thread's you have managed to spew your B.S.This was a good clean thread until you opened up your Hole.
SHUT THE F*** UP !
[QUOTE=cutlassefi;1441496]How is it that you’re now a Dyno expert when not long ago you were a Dyno dumbass? Just curious.
Here we go again......
49 posts on this thread and no foul language or insults.
And then there's you ! Once again for the second time this week on two separate thread's you have managed to spew your B.S.This was a good clean thread until you opened up your Hole.
SHUT THE F*** UP !
In this post above you try to misrepresent my question, what I tried to convey in my post on real olds power was: How is it possible this engine could make some much more TQ than HP, a valid question as I hadn't seen this before. I believe your testing was skewed. By asking this question your tried to make it seem I didn't know TQ and HP cross @ 5250 which was absurd then as it is now. I have a good understanding of how SF dyno works seeing one of it inventors was a fixture in my shop for years before his death. I'm starting to think after testing on the "Land and Sea" dyno myself maybe you have no data to show, maybe your dyno collects no data other HP and TQ.Honestly when you showed up on here with a dyno I was happy to see it, I've tested on that very same modified run stand you have there, and I can only say I hate that thing, the salesman that sold those things should be held accountable. Go ahead and post a picture of what holds the front of the engine up on that thing...........................how do you put any kind of restored type on engine on that without destroying the paint, much less distorting the pan itself? And thats just the start of the problems
Superflow didn’t come up with the 5252 you know right?
I have a 56 channel DA and the Pro software.
As far as the dyno mounting issues I’m not going to waste my time. If you can’t see the relationship on cart mounting vs in a car and how not to destroy the paint etc., then that’s your problem.
Superflow didn’t come up with the 5252 you know right?
I have a 56 channel DA and the Pro software.
As far as the dyno mounting issues I’m not going to waste my time. If you can’t see the relationship on cart mounting vs in a car and how not to destroy the paint etc., then that’s your problem.
WOW.... I'm impressed!
You got through that one in a fairly civilized manner.
rickw30, you should become Vortecpro's campaign manager. Your like a Rudy Giuliani. You do realize it wasn't Cutlassefi who started attacking Vortecpro first, right? None of the 3 experts on here pull any punches, that is just how they are and feelings get hurt.
rickw30, you should become Vortecpro's campaign manager. Your like a Rudy Giuliani. You do realize it wasn't Cutlassefi who started attacking Vortecpro first, right? None of the 3 experts on here pull any punches, that is just how they are and feelings get hurt.
Thanks Christian.
You know what, from here on out I’ll still help people but otherwise I’m going to quit posting anything that I’ve done or will be doing here. I agree with Dr. Dan, this has gotten ridiculous at all levels.
Last edited by cutlassefi; Jul 23, 2022 at 09:01 AM.
rickw30, you should become Vortecpro's campaign manager. Your like a Rudy Giuliani. You do realize it wasn't Cutlassefi who started attacking Vortecpro first, right? None of the 3 experts on here pull any punches, that is just how they are and feelings get hurt.
Yeah ok.. Rudy Giuliani ! That's a good one. I can tell your Cutasses little puppy.
Your missing the point !
But at least you got a " attaboy' " from Cutass.
It's starting to make the old ROP look like Romper Room 🤣
I see Ben got some of your rockers, Mark.
To be honest this is mellow compared to ROP it got quite nasty with a lot of posts being deleted and locked.
It's a shame as there was a lot of good information, only problem was you had to read through the entire thread of trash talk to glean any useful information.
Unless you race serious or are someone that likes to test your engine building skills a dyno is just marketing tool.
I get it that the professional engine builders get their back up when their dyno numbers are questioned as it could cost then future business, I also
understand that if the data looks off, those that understand the math will question the dyno numbers.
Dr Dan has had lots of success racing 403 powered cars and when many said that the 403 is an egg carton he proved them wrong.
None of Oldsmobile engines are true performance engines they are passenger car engines that have been modified beyond their original design.
If Dan's engine run's the Dyno HP/ TQ numbers or not does not matter, what matters is he had a goal and went after that goal, what ever the result!
Questioning is a good thing attacking is not.
Yeah ok.. Rudy Giuliani ! That's a good one. I can tell your Cutasses little puppy.
Your missing the point !
But at least you got a " attaboy' " from Cutass.
From a guy who does 3 posts after Cutlassefi does 1. Who is disrupting threads? Yeah, I have dealt with Cutlassefi for years, he is currently doing a SEFI intake for my 358. Do I agree with everything he says? No, Qjets are a good example, especially as a street carb. He has been a big help to many of us, whether you like it or not. Vortecpro has also helped me and we agree on a few things as well. They both rattle each other's cages.
So, where are the proving ground 1/4 mile races going to be held?
I vote Bandimere in Denver so many competitors won’t need a bar or cage, the DA is ~8500ft on an average/ good day, and I am partial because of that being so close to me.
Second choice, and better for representative Dyno numbers without as much correction would be Little River Dragway in central Texas, but preferably in late fall (late October) so it is cool and great air.
So, where are the proving ground 1/4 mile races going to be held?
I vote Bandimere in Denver so many competitors won’t need a bar or cage, the DA is ~8500ft on an average/ good day, and I am partial because of that being so close to me.
Second choice, and better for representative Dyno numbers without as much correction would be Little River Dragway in central Texas, but preferably in late fall (late October) so it is cool and great air.
Bernhard wrote:
I have no doubt you will run your dyno HP/TQ numbers.
rickw30, you should become Vortecpro's campaign manager. Your like a Rudy Giuliani. You do realize it wasn't Cutlassefi who started attacking Vortecpro first, right? None of the 3 experts on here pull any punches, that is just how they are and feelings get hurt.
My feelings aren't hurt at all, I like everybody on here, I might disagree with pan print and others, but were all car guys after all.
[QUOTE=cutlassefi;1441699]Superflow didn’t come up with the 5252 you know right?
I have a 56 channel DA and the Pro software.
As far as the dyno mounting issues I’m not going to waste my time. If you can’t see the relationship on cart mounting vs in a car and how not to destroy the paint etc., then that’s your problem.[/QUOTE
If you got any pointers on how to preserve the paint on the bottom of my oil pan after its been subjected to that round rubber pad, I"d like to hear them!
Last edited by VORTECPRO; Jul 24, 2022 at 05:03 PM.
My feelings aren't hurt at all, I like everybody on here, I might disagree with pan print and others, but were all car guys after all.
You thrive on this ****. Everything you just typed shows how much of a passive aggressive low life, 🐓 🍭 pice of 💩 you are. I have yet see one question answered by you with actual information that might be useful. In plain words you are worthless.
[QUOTE=Duh;1442052]You thrive on this ****. Everything you just typed shows how much of a passive aggressive low life, 🐓 🍭 pice of 💩 you are. I have yet see one question answered by you with actual information t
c’mon Duh, VORTECPRO may enjoy getting people stirred up, but not enough to deserve to be personally attacked like this. Cuss words directed at someone else never improve a situation.
He has been a wealth of knowledge to me and many others on here, and he helps stir a healthy level of competition among engine builders and racers.
I can also say that he knows his stuff around a Dyno, and that is why he questions others so much, because his Dyno prints out pages of information with all the details, and he shows all the correction factors and inputs, without hiding anything.
I have personally witnessed at least 15 engines running on his Dyno, including our own engine two separate times. He and his son worked their butts off to make sure everything was done correctly setting up the Dyno and even recalibrating for a change in gasoline to a different specific gravity when we tried a different type of ethanol vs non-ethanol pump gas.
This is not even speaking to the lengths that he bent over backwards to help us out of our folly of fixing a poorly machined/poorly assembled engine that we had to go all the way through and correct and improve on the parts we had for a much better combination.
I fully disagree in calling him worthless, quite the opposite in fact. If anyone has been worthwhile on this entire forum board, it is VORTECPRO.
Last edited by Battenrunner; Jul 24, 2022 at 11:56 AM.
You thrive on this ****. Everything you just typed shows how much of a passive aggressive low life, 🐓 🍭 pice of 💩 you are. I have yet see one question answered by you with actual information t
c’mon Duh, VORTECPRO may enjoy getting people stirred up, but not enough to deserve to be personally attacked like this. Cuss words directed at someone else never improve a situation.
He has been a wealth of knowledge to me and many others on here, and he helps stir a healthy level of competition among engine builders and racers.
I can also say that he knows his stuff around a Dyno, and that is why he questions others so much, because his Dyno prints out pages of information with all the details, and he shows all the correction factors and inputs, without hiding anything.
I have personally witnessed at least 15 engines running on his Dyno, including our own engine two separate times. He and his son worked their butts off to make sure everything was done correctly setting up the Dyno and even recalibrating for a change in gasoline to a different specific gravity when we tried a different type of ethanol vs non-ethanol pump gas.
This is not even speaking to the lengths that he bent over backwards to help us out of our folly of fixing a poorly machined/poorly assembled engine that we had to go all the way through and correct and improve on the parts we had for a much better combination.
I fully disagree in calling him worthless, quite the opposite in fact. If anyone has been worthwhile on this entire forum board, it is VORTECPRO.
^^^ Thank you !
Somebody gets the point !
For the record, I don't campaign for anyone. It's just when crap spews out of peoples mouths that is uncalled for, it just opens the door for people like me to say what they think of it.
Lots of people feel this way on this site.
They just don't say it !
Battenruner point of view is his. Battenruner had a different relationship with him as I believe he is a paying customer if I recall correctly. My point of view is mine I won't change it unless he actually changes. I won't apologize for my language as that's just how I am (my mother said I should have been a pirate).
So far the only thing I have seen Vortecpro do is antagonize contributing members to stop posting. These are members that support the Oldsmobile community and have shared there knowledge with others be it correct or wrong. The only thing I see him support is his ego.
You thrive on this ****. Everything you just typed shows how much of a passive aggressive low life, 🐓 🍭 pice of 💩 you are. I have yet see one question answered by you with actual information that might be useful. In plain words you are worthless.
Duh.... If I had written and directed this post towards you that would be ok.
Is that what your saying?
Is that what you think this site should be about?
Debating, arguing, disagreeing and try to prove a method or point concerning a particular subject is normal.
The above is not !
Quite honestly I don't know. If you feel that way, it's the way you feel. I just see Vortecpro as a destructive force time and time again. If you guys want me gone and the moderators agree so be it.
Oh man! here we go again! Many here have great knowledge of Oldsmobile and have my respect!. And I have friends on both sides of Vortecpro. VP does has knowledge. And has helped CO members here. But like Duh said.Vortecpro as a destructive force time and time again. Here and on many other sites! Unfortunately he is a TROLL. Many other words come to mind. Narcissistic personality disorder. Maybe he just needs help?? But this forum is not the place, we are not mental health providers.
You thrive on this ****. Everything you just typed shows how much of a passive aggressive low life, 🐓 🍭 pice of 💩 you are. I have yet see one question answered by you with actual information that might be useful. .
Let me reply to your post.
1. "You thrive on this ****" I don't mind it, I wouldn't want to tell anyone what to post or not to post.
2. "I have yet see one question answered by you with actual information that might be useful" I have 3 customers on this forum I've done extensive work for, and we are getting started on a 4th customers engine, Nick, I've turned down several engine builds from other people on this forum due to my extreme work load.
3. "In plain words you are worthless" You won't find any of my customers on this forum that will agree with you, but feel free to try.
4. I've also helped 307-403 on this forum and he's not a customer of mine.
So-some more advice, you seem like a very unhappy person, please get help, before its too late.
Last edited by VORTECPRO; Jul 24, 2022 at 05:05 PM.
Quite honestly I don't know. If you feel that way, it's the way you feel. I just see Vortecpro as a destructive force time and time again. If you guys want me gone and the moderators agree so be it.
