I think this is long overdue…

 

My money is on Dale given he placed very well with his scrap cast iron 307 build.

 

No one cares enough to finance them.

 

Where would you test at?

 

As in MotorTrend with David Freiburger?

Not sure the demand is there for Oldsmobiles

 

🕳️

 

Did any of the original dyno queens ever make it into a car(s), or do they get parted out or shoved under a workbench? I don't recall ever seeing anything resembling "Engine Masters Olds Small Block Sets "X" Record". Theoretically, they put even the most advanced super stock engine to shame, but they get raced.

 

First-Super Stock engines are built with a strict rule system in place and operate to 9000 RPM. For example: A 305 SS engine runs 9s @ 3100 pounds and spins 9000 RPM in high gear. Same thing for a 283 just @ 2900 pounds.

 

Ok, EM engines are built to strict specifications as well. Maybe a "record" is a bad example. The question stands: where do they go besides the run stand?

 

Thats a question for Dale

 

The engine masters was designed to highlight an engine builders ability to make the most HP/TQ in this case pump gas street engines.
Like Mark said stock and supper stock engines operate in a very specific power band range.
The point of an all Oldsmobile Engine masters challenge would be to give a chance for builders to test there skills against other builders.
The engine masters engines are built on the edge and by the time the competition is over they have had many dyno pulls both factors effecting end use.

 

How many ex EM Olds engines are there? Half a dozen? Ten? I seem to remember one being sold here or ROP a number of years ago but these things aren’t exactly as plentiful as Predators at Harbor Freight. (no knock insinuated against HF clientele if taken wrong, I reference small engines)

…

 

I'm most curious about the one with the Wise heads, Glen or Gary Somebody (?).
Given the scoring platform with highest overall average tq and hp, they should be able to live in a car or at least provide "down track results" that are mentioned here so often.

 

Classic Oldsmobile and realoldspower etc is a small snapshot into the performance world, we will not beware of all that is happening or has happened in the community.
I agree it would be cool to see these engines perform at the track.

 

thats Greg Finnigan. He placed 2nd in the 2016 EMC. Same engine I was involved with in the 2019 race engine challenge with some changes

Diesel based small block 403”

 

Don’t know,, are you offering? 😉

 

The Mopar crowd has their own engine competition… it’s pretty cool.

 

A Olds drag racer from NC. Friend with on facebook. Know Brad Wise. Quote from him. ''Had a chance to buy two set. Nice heads but I bought billet battens instead.
Ports were tall but not big enough, could not port much because water was too close''

 

So, where did it go? What happened to the 307, Dale?
Also, were they Wise heads or billet Battens? Everything I've read in the past 6 years said Wise.

 

Correct, but that build now has a few new holes in it. It blew up on his Dyno about a year ago. Turns out the cyl walls were thin in some spots.
He’s building a smaller inch gas block with one of my halos and block fill, but still going to use the Wise heads.

 

Billet Battens? What’s that?

these flowed a bit over 400 max and were not maxed out because they were used on a 400” engine that also needed to make a lot of low end TQ. The port cross section was fairly small

I have a set of battens here that are maxed out and go around 340.

 

ya it finally threw a rod. Hundreds of pulls on that bottom end over the years. Those heads as they are, are best suited for 365 to 370” . They were small for the RPM range of the competition as the peak hp came in about 6500

this pull was to 7900

 

Hmmm some dyno data that makes some sense, whats the VE?

 

about 99.

comp ratio 11.94:1 on MS109

 

What would the VE numbers look like on a NHRA NA stocker engine?
Would you use this data to make changes to the engine as in are you chasing VE% ?

 

that’s like asking how high is up? 😁

a high winding stocker small block may have quite a bit higher VE as it will come in near peak HP.. the high rpm will have a greater influence on VE .

a much lower RPM big block stocker may see it’s peak VE at or closer to peak TQ.

im not sure anyone is chasing a VE number. It’s easier for a very narrow rpm band engine to achieve a high VE because you are not concerned about anything outside that range.. you can put all your effort’s into a specific range

its a real challenge to get the VE ideal over say a 4,000 rpm spread, especially if the range starts low like 2500 or 3000

 

Thanks Dale for the reply.
What did the VE numbers on your 307 look like?
Are you going to venture into NHRA stock , I seen someone looking at Data :]

 

Thats a great question.

 

You know exactly why I want to see the VE and other data, its a quick way to sift through the real as compared to the BS on here.

 

Mark
What did the VE numbers look like on your 455 Buick stocker?

 

Yep, I’ve also asked Greg to send me more
info from that engine he’s collected over the years.

I’ll post it here

 

Thats a great question, I don't have any of the tests from that engine since I've moved, but I bet its around 100. When I have it on my dyno in the future I will post it. I will say for the record: My 455 Buick is the low HP combination, not a stage 1. Actual 10.67 compression, .398 lift cam, 2.000 intake valve, been 10.69 in F/SA @ 3650, 1.38 60. The 70 Stage 1 combination has 13.5 compression and a .490 lift cam utilizing another 30 CFM of air flow.

 

I’ve got a cd disc somewhere that they gave each competitor of the pulls. I’ve never even looked at .. I’ll see what’s on there

I know one thing that they never did when I was there… they never adjusted the correction factor throughout the day. The engines that ran late in the day usually got screwed out of some score. The outside air feed was feed through the roof of the building. As the day got hotter , the air supply got worse.

 

How is it the dyno did not correct according to temp the carb was seeing? Let me tell you one thing, after testing on all these brand X dyno's since I've moved, I have a appreciation for my SF dyno, what a awesome piece of equipment!

 

Nice picture! Clean room.

 

back then they were using DTS Powermark dynos and WynDyn data acquisition.

there was a big kerfuffle when it was discovered the correction factors were screwed up. From what I understand the settings can be manual or self correcting on the correction factor.

i seen plenty of questionable things happen while there.

i see in your pic the ex exits do not have a sealed system at the exits and your turbine doesn’t have a sealed supply either?

or are they just not hooked up?

 

Ok-Dale lets have a discussion about dyno testing. But first I want to put a few questions to you:

1. In your opinion what are the conditions (weather) for a STP correction on SF dyno?
2. What conditions make for a zero DA situation at the drag strip?
3. What is the known barometer @ sea level?
4. Do you believe the Moroso power speed calculator is fairly accurate?
5. Do you believe the Moroso power speed calculator shows crank shaft HP in observed conditions?
6. Have EVER seen a dyno operator say any thing other than this is a conservative dyno?

I ask you these questions because I want to make sure we agree on the above questions before we get into any dyno testing talk.

 

How is it that you’re now a Dyno expert when not long ago you were a Dyno dumbass? Just curious.
https://nam12.safelinks.protection.o...amp;reserved=0

 

Cutassefi/ Mark here is your chance to go head to head with Mark and Dale maybe even a low water temp high VE engine builders might enter.

 

REALLY, the only dyno I trust comes after a full-pull, you get a print-out with time and MPH over distance for your weight. THEN google Stan Weiss OLD Hp calculato and makes you CRY as you get a true representation on what Hp your making on that day, in those condition and with that set-up. Yet like Vortec/Mark said, that's a conservative dyno..

Every dyno is said to be conservative, every flow bench is stingy.LOL