MDchanic

Dave, Just to keep it rolling, I'm still here, but got very busy with working and home stuff.
Have to work 2 more days, then I have some free time.
I've got to finish my little project, and I'll post some pics and some information about shims, etc. that would be relevant to this thread.

Oh, and I got your PM - just haven't had time to reply yet.

- Eric

J-(Chicago)

I'll see you on Sunday or Monday then most likely. I still have to get up there, and set up the ring and pinion for him. I Also dug up a 7 quart pan and those tall cast valve covers.
Let's shoot for King of the track again and Wally number 3.

f-85

Did you guys ever get any of the heads flowed?

J-(Chicago)

I haven't had the small block heads flowed yet, but the big block heads should have an et slip in a few weeks once we get Don's car back together. He folded over a few fins in the converter so we're waiting on that.


I heard your modified Mondollar irons flowed 281 a few weeks ago. Pretty damn good. Now you just need to throw 650 horses at them. I bet you're pumped. I am.

f-85

Are they done, and are you having them flowed?


Yeah they did good. That was more of just a test while the new program is being setup. It will have a full computerized printout when done and all the ports flowed on one head. Also on a side note. The guy at F/X said there are the best flowing iron head he has seen besides some BBC heads.

67 Cutlass Freak

I'm going to save my money to have my next set of heads flowed. I am going to do a max port set of "C" castings. I will be raising the intake roof 1/2 inch, raising the floor 1/4", sleeving the push rod holes, raising the exhaust 1/4", and most likely milling .060" off. I may even reshape the chamber and O-ring the head.
I don't want to say too much about the application, but the goal is to have the fastest Olds on the planet running cast iron heads.

f-85

Thats fast. I see on the "list" The fastest guy with irons is 9.27 @ 149mph...

67 Cutlass Freak

Our goal is actually about a second and a half faster than that, which would bump Trovato and Tester. Even though they have both technically bumped themselves by switching to Chevy power plants. Proof is in the pudding so I really don't want to say anything more until we are a little closer. I really think it is doable.

Smitty275

You need a class A Dragster that will weigh about 1600-1700lbs with driver. That'll let you get down there. Otherwise your gonna need a blower of some sorts or a master at N2O to set up about a 700 shot. Good luck. I'll be watching. If you get that far with Iron I'll loan a set of full on aluminum to replace them so you can make even more steam.

67 Cutlass Freak

Yesterday I took a ride up to see John at Rocket Racing. He's going to do the finish work on my "G" heads. He said all in all the port work looks real good. He did offer up some tid bits of advice. He said I could have made the bowl a little more round on the long side radius. He explained that works better in the low lift areas. He also said that the short side radius could have been opened up a little more. He showed me an egg shaped carbide bit that would work better to pull back and remove more material. He also said Harbor freight sells a mini belt sander that works real well for the sides, roof, and floor. I'm going to have to check that out. He said it removes material pretty fast. John was very kind to spend about an hour with me just helping me with shared knowledge. He showed me some of the Rocket Racing heads which are very impressive. He had a set of hand ported ones with huge runners and bowls. The finish of the ports was some what rough. Like 40 grit sand paper. He explained to me this really does help with the atomization of fuel and to reduce puddling. He also said this will not show up on a flow bench, but the dyno numbers will be improved. Then we looked at a set of his CNC ported heads. Man they are a thing of beauty. For bolt on horse power, I think the Rocket Racing heads have gone a few steps past Edelbrock and Pro Comp. He also showed me his new tunnel ram with removable top for different carb or injection configurations. He thought that my heads were pretty nice, and should meet or exeed our expectations. I'm glad I made the trip to see him.

67 Cutlass Freak

Jeremy is having his number 5 heads, that I ported for him, put on a flow bench tomorow. I'm eager to hear the results. I'm pretty confident they will do OK. No inflated numbers here boys. Good, bad or ugly, the truth will be told.

VORTECPRO

https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...flow-test.html

11971four4two

vortecpro is back
he is an autofellatio expert

save us

J-(Chicago)

To Dave, and anyone else biting their nails, they did just fine for small block heads.

240/180 at .600
28"
I will post the complete printout once all the formulations are 100% correct. We benched raced them against F-85's set of autographed mondello all out competition heads, and the low lift numbers were right next to the mondo bbo heads.

To all the naysayers, : Dave and I did this for fun. I don't even have a worthy short block to put these on yet. I used my inference skills from having lived on this planet long enough to know that Dave would do a good job.

I can throw out this rough calculation for now, 240 at .6 should translate to somewhere in the 220's at .500 lift. Stock head was 180 @ .5 (according to dick stolpa, and on a different bench)
So his work gained at least 40 cfm. I'd say that's successful. They were not noisy and didn't pulse much. ALSO, the inners and outers were not different cfm wise. They flowed almost identical. You already have plenty of pictures, but I'll add one more.

J-(Chicago)

67 Cutlass Freak

This was the third post in this thread. Made by Nick Jeffreys. Sadly Nick passed away last Thursday. You can read about it here-
http://realoldspower.prophpbb.com/topic5095.html
Nick was well versed in Oldsmobile. I welcomed his comments and all others. I want to say THANKYOU to J-(Chicago) for having faith in my work and ponying up the dough to have his heads flow tested. I have ported a few sets, but never had any flow tested. This is very encouraging to me, and should be to everyone else that is doing home porting. According to this data, looks like my small block ported heads out performed the Pro Comps out of the box, and were right behind the Edelbrocks out of the box. This is comparing a small block ported head to big block aftermarket high dollar heads. So what does this really mean? Don't put away your die grinders just yet.

J-(Chicago)

Despite his crabby-esque online presence, he really Wasn't a bad guy at all. I want people to know that.
I was chainsawing 30 feet up in a stubborn old green ash tree that was killed by emerald ash borers, and was wearing an Oldsmobile hat that he gave me when my phone rang about his passing. I had a big sad smile about how poetic that moment was, and thanked both him and the tree for being a part of my life, as crazy as that sounds. I hope he is at peace now.

coppercutlass

So since we have the numbers everyone is after and results can this thread be officially have a sticky since we get cylinder head related questions about 3 times a week.


As for nicks passing it hit home too and I was saddened to read about it since my father is only a year older and has had some health scares in recent years. Despite our differences I wish I could have seen him at the track handed him a beer and introduced my self and let him strangle me for a few minutes then laughed about it. I said this before but his car is one of the reasons I wanted to stick with small blocks. very early on in my olds years I saw his car and was floored because it was a small block.

Bernhard

Nice job guys and thanks for sharing your work and results.
This is what the hobby is all about sharing results / experiences the good and bad.
RIP Nick and thanks for always sharing you experience with your Olds powered race car.

J-(Chicago)

Well, the computations are complete, and the final results are in. Here you go folks.
This clearly demonstrates the thorough and consistent job that Dave did. Everything was done the same. The outers match the inners almost perfectly, and the intake to exhaust ratio is damn good for an Olds head.

J-(Chicago)

#1 247.3 intake 201.8 exhaust @ .6 lift
#3 247.3 intake 200.7 exhaust @ .6 lift

f-85

Great job dave!

J-(Chicago)

We bench raced Dave's small block heads against F-85's autographed Mondello all out competition big block heads, just to make sure things would really show up on the radar. Racing a ported sbo head vs a stock bbo head would have been unsportsmanlike.

Here's Josh's Mondello heads:

J-(Chicago)

For obvious reasons, F-85's heads destroyed the sbo heads on the intake side, but I gotta give Dave credit for staying in the race on the exhaust side. Bonus points for consistency.

Due to the Olds castings, The big block exhaust can't keep up with the intakes the higher up the scale that you go.

67 Cutlass Freak

Wow thanks for posting Jeremy. That is really cool. I can't believe my exhaust ports flowed better than Joe's, and I'm amazed we were neck in neck on the low lift intake numbers. Joe Mondello was an inspiration for me, and I have nothing but respect for the man, and all his accomplishments. It's only fitting that we used his son Bernard for all the parts that went into these heads. I am about to start my next set of heads that will be my crowning achievement, (I hope). I am going to do up a set of max ported "C" heads that will be flowed when done. These heads are a long term project.

If anyone is interested in having a set of heads ported, I will be happy to help you at whatever level you want to go. I will beat the price of most performance shops. I will not be rushed on any heads, so if you're in a hurry, call on someone else.
PM me if you need help on your heads, Dave

J-(Chicago)

I welcome Bernard to stop by and see the end results. He was a big help and nothing but professional to us. Give him a call.

coppercutlass

That's pretty badass. I cant wait to get my other 355 with the heads done by the freak man . Thanks J for posting all the info.

67 Cutlass Freak

I spoke with Bernard Mondello tonight. He was very enthusiastic about our results. He thanked me multiple times for including him in our project. He is a very busy man, and very humble. I asked him to post up in this thread, but he declined. He has been following along, but has made it his policy not to post on these on line forums. He's just too busy and doesn't really have the time to invest. He also doesn't want to advertise in these types of threads or toot his own horn. He would rather talk to individuals over the phone or in person than through a key board. He and his father both possess a wealth of information pertaining to Oldsmobile performance. One thing he mentioned to me tonight was his business motto, which he learned from his father. Treat others how you want to be treated. Don't you wish all companies operated like that?

Bernard has given me permission to tell everyone reading this thread, that he will give anyone the same jobber rate discount that he gives me. All you need to do is mention my name - Dave Meyer, 67 Cutlass Freak or that you read about him on Classic Oldsmobile.com.
I told him it would sound better coming from him, but he really just does not feel comfortable posting.
Thanks Bernard for all your help.


I also wanted to say thanks again to Smitty for all his helpful information in this thread. I know he can help anyone with their performance needs as well.

455man

Cutlass Freak what state are you located in?

67 Cutlass Freak

I am located in Salem, Wisconsin. Five minutes from the Illinois boarder. Near Kenosha. I guess that is important for anyone that's considering shipping heads to me. Thanks for asking.

coppercutlass

I may add shipping through fastenal is cheap there is one right by your work dave on rt 41

66ninetyeightls

Extrude honing: http://extrudehoneafm.com/automotive.html

Good or Bad? GO!

Smitty275

I remember 30yrs ago when extrude hone was new on the scene and all the rage. Every mag did articles on it and its awesome merits. But it never really caught on and faded out rather quickly. Why? I don't know. I don't know if it just doesn't give the expected results or if its just too expensive. Either way its just not much heard about anymore. Opinion; I think its more suited to its original industrial intentions than it is automotive cylinder head and intakes.

442rocketdave

The thing I remember about extrude honing was it helped with stock exhaust manifolds and its hard to find someone that does it and knows what he doing. I also agree with Smitty that it was and still is expensive and not really for automotive heads.

Bernhard

Extrude honing intake manifolds and exhaust manifolds when you must use factory or factory look a like parts. Some racers that race stock type class racing will use this to get a edge. In some classes it is legal others it is rule stretching.
In BTR's book they extrude honed a Ebrock torquer intake and made a hp gain.

So yes you can see a gain with extrude honing and yes it does have its place in the high performance engine building world.

TripDeuces

My Extrudehoned Tri-Carb intake. The dividers were cut down also. The big deal with extrudehoning is it gets to places that you can't normally get to without cutting the piece apart.

67 Cutlass Freak

Alright guys, enough about extrude honing. Let's get back to **** every broke *** SOB can do in his own garage. That's what "Home Porting Techniques" is all about. What did you grind up today? Post up your work guys. Let's get back to reality.

Bernhard

Nice
How much did it pick up?

Bernhard

One could home port a set of cylinder heads, intake or exhaust manifold and have it polished/ finished off with a extrude hone.

Extrude honing is just another weapon in the high performance tool box.

Hand porting + Extrude honing + followed by a acid bath to hide the evidence =
record setting stock et/mph records.

TripDeuces

I'll respect 67 Cutlass Freak wishes and not talk about Extrudehone Bernhard. It's his thread. PM me and I can tell you all about it.