OLE442

I painted the car June 1st. I've read not to sand for at least a week. I also saw somewhere not to wax the paint for a month. So, I can wet sand it now and buff it after a month?? Just curious....

Also, are there and Harbor Freight buffers that work well for cut n buff that are reasonably priced. I will most likely never use it after I buff the 442!

Thanks for any info,
OLE442

Olds64

I have a DA buffer from Horrible Freight. It works well. I used the Chemical Guys pads and compounds. You can get similar pads and chemicals from HF, but at the time I bought them there was a kit available on Amazon. I've actually used my buffer many times on multiple vehicles.

https://www.chemicalguys.com/

chopolds

Lacquer takes a very long time to really dry up. It shrinks, as it does. The longer you wait, the less shrinkage you will have after you sand and buff. IIRC, I've even did touch up on lacquer jobs 3 months after paint, when I buffed it 3-4 weeks after paint. The longer you wait, well, it won't get any more difficult to sand and buff, like modern urethanes. So that isn't an issue.
As for buffers, a variable speed rotary is best. I like Dewart/Milwaukee. Makita's aren't too bad. A DA used as a buffer is made for people who aren't experienced in using a real buffer. So they go slow, and not a lot of power. They WILL take much longer to do the job! But less likely to do damage. Using foam pads, even on a rotary, will also lessen chances of damage.

ijasond

I agree with all of this. A Harbor freight buffer is just fine for occasional use. I’ve burned through a few of them in shops though, while the makita I got 15 years ago is still going strong with every day use. The DA has replaced skill with time. I recently got quotes to do a thorough detail on my daily driver because I just don’t like buffing anymore after 27 years in body shops. The cheapest one was $1300. I think a big part of the reason is that all these young guys use a DA polisher in place of a real rotary buffer. It takes 5x as long and so they have to charge more for their lack of skill with a rotary.

lacquer technically never stops shrinking and never actually cures like modern paints so there is no right answer as to when it should be buffed. I’d let it bake in the sun when I can and give it about 30 days to offgas and then get to it.

Koda

What are the skills that a DA replaces that one needs with the rotary? Ability to not burn through?

ijasond

That’s one of them. DA doesn’t generate heat, so it’s very safe. However, heat is your friend if you use it properly. It softens the paint which enables the compound and pad to do their work faster.

Since a DA is random orbit, it minimizes swirls. It’s much harder to remove swirls with a rotary, but again, much faster if you know what you’re doing.

A DA is basically idiot proof, so it can be great for a DIYer if you have plenty of time, but not a lot of experience.

You won’t find anyone in a body shop cutting and buffing with a DA.

bccan

x2

OLE442

I’ve been out wet sanding on my car today and it’s starting to come back to me. I’m starting with 1500, then go to 2000 then to the 3000 and it’s pretty darn shiny. I’ve got a few flaws but they are very small but…… I’m not gonna do anything at all cause me to screw it up so it’ll be what it’ll be. It’s pretty freakin’ shiny with the 3000 grit. I think I may get 5000 grit and go over the whole car with it right before I buff it.

I’ve decided I’m going to use a rotary buffer instead of that DA because I’ve used one before. I only started pulling the edge on the door once just a small section back then, but I didn’t have a problem at all buffing the whole Mustang down. I think the finest grit we had back then was like 1200…… I believe!

ijasond

I think 5000 will be way overkill. It can come in handy because modern urethanes are so hard, and compounds aren’t very abrasive, but that fresh lacquer job in 3000 will buff like butter.

Just as a general rule of thumb, you can roughly double your grit with each step. No need to go from 1000 to 1500 to 2000. You can go straight from 1000 to 2000. I block with 1000, then 2000 on a pad, then run over it with 3000 on a da. 3000 isn’t necessary, it’s just to make the buffing easier if you hate buffing as much as I do.

When I first started in the industry(I was just a kid, I’m not old yet…)I think 1200 was the finest paper we used. It wasn’t uncommon to knock a run out with 400 and buff it. That old 3M heavy duty rubbing compound felt like it had beach sand in it and sometimes it would thicken up on you so we would cut it back with kerosene. If you let excess compound dry in the crevices it was almost easier to sand it down and start over. I think you’ll find buffing this job to be a rather easy experience vs back then. Just take it easy and be careful because that lacquer will burn real easy.

DA has its place, it just not for cutting. They’re great for applying that final polish to make sure you eliminate any little bit of swirls on dark colors and they’re great for maintenance after cut & buff.

OLE442

I've used a Bosch rotary buffer years ago when I buffed my BOSS 302. But after the above info. I'm debating on just using a DA instead since I'm no spring chicken and it'd been decades since I've buffed lacquer. I have had one misstep when I started wet sanding the 442 so I'm a bit nervous. Some of the bad info (IMO) was from the paint shop where a seller told me to start with a coarser grit paper. I have since decided to start with 1200n then 1500 and on up to 3000 grit before buffing (I took your advice ijasond on not going any finer)! Will the DA get me to a good shine even though it will take a bit longer. I also was sold a bottle of CSI brand Ceram-X-Polish to use as both a compound with wool pad and polish with a foam pad? I used Meguiar's years ago and was thinking of using it now instead. I'll buy a buffer at HF and I see they sell Meguiar's products. Hopefully they aren't knock-off products! I'm really trying not to eff up this last in my lifetime project!

ijasond

Yes. The da is perfectly capable of getting the results you’re after. It will just take longer.

I’m not familiar with the product you mentioned, but meguiars is my go to in the body shop and harbor freight does sell it. Autozone often has it too.

Turnpike

I've had good results with Mequiars 105 (compound) & 205 (finishing polish). Use Garage or covered area. I found any hint of sunshine, 105&205 will dry too quick, cake the pad.

Also good results with 3M Perfect it & Finesse It ll products

The obvious - start with least abrasive pad and least abrasive polish.

ijasond

Yeah, you absolutely can not do this type of work in the sun.

OLE442

I would have thought you would end with "least abrasive pad and least abrasive polish"? I always thought you started with a wool pad and ended with foam buffing pads?

ijasond

I missed that part of his post somehow. But yea, you definitely wanna star with the most abrasive pad and polish and work your way finer just like you do with sandpaper.

I prefer to compound with wool and polish with foam/microfiber, but I’m considered old school. A lot of guys prefer foam and/or microfiber all the way through.

Turnpike

If you do this for a living or are very familiar with pad/machine/paint, yes you can jump to more aggressive combo from the start.

Starting with the least abrasive pad&polish you can see how the paint reacts, especially using a rotary. As noted above, fresh paint is soft.
You then adjust(s) the pads & polish to see which combo provides the result you want without removing a S-ton of paint

The chart below is a decent reference, even though last update was 2017
As noted in the chart, products in purple are for "filling" paint defect. They typically don't correct the defect

Turnpike

Curious - what's the color of the new paint job?

OLE442

It’s the original color…… Viking blue lacquer. Since I have the whole car sanded down to 3000 grit, is there a real need to use a compound on this finish? Could I just go to the foam pads and polish? Or if I need a compound could I use a finer compound, less aggressive compound with the wool pad?

ijasond

On a modern finish you certainly aren't going to get by without a good compounding prior to polish, but on that lacquer in 3000 grit, it may be possible. Take your 2nd step pad/polish combo and try it out on a small area. See if you like the results. If so, have at it. I usually use Meguiar's 83 dual action polish for my 2nd step after compound. If you are going to do it in one step, I think that would be a good option.

I think I would still prefer to do it in 3 steps: Compound - polish - sealant/wax. The compounding step would just be really fast and easy in this case. For me, it would speed things along.

OLE442

Well, I went to Harbor freight this morning to pick up a Hercules 8mm Forced rotation Dual Action Polisher and just decided to be safe with the DA. I probably would have been OK with a rotary but I'm not that sure....LOL! The lowest speed on the buffer is 3200.

While at HF, I picked up Meguiar's Ultra Pro Speed Compound #110 and Ultra Pro Finishing Polish # 210? They did not carry the product numbers list in the above posts so I got as close as possible. I also got a bottle of their #26 Yellow Hi-Tech Yellow Wax. #26 has been my go to wax for decades.
I have a new wool pad and a foam finishing pad that an auto paint store sold me a few weeks back. Should I use the wool with the Compound? Or should I get a foam cutting pad? I got the less abrasive compound since I have it to 3000 grit. I'm going out to wet sand the W25 hood and when done I'll do a few other things to the car and start buffing it tomorrow.

It looks pretty darn good so far and I can't wait to get it polished. It isn't a Barrett/Jackson paint job but way better than your normal DIY garage job. I saw many flaws as I was sanding it. One was a noobie error and I may re-paint the top of one fender later on but maybe not! I'll wait a few months before using the #26 Yellow on the car. I knew it wouldn't be perfect since I'm not a professional. Just want it to look good!

OLE442

Turnpike

3000 on DA it’s just to make the buffing easier - I agree - found 3M Trizact foam discs work well but $$$

My uncle used to polish cars for a living. As a kid, I would go over and help (get in the way) him. The famous orange compound, yes, the beach sand one. Its was like concrete when it dried. Kerosene trick really does work. I was tasked with wiping down any "sling". He would tilt the pad slightly to ensure I had work to do....
Back in the day Mirror Glaze 7 had tons of lubrication (oils?) in it. You could use that to soften and remove the beach sand compound too. I imagine the formula has changed since then
He had an ancient DeVilbis rotary he let me use to practice.
Fun times

Turnpike

Hercules 8mm Forced rotation Dual Action Polisher
You got the best of both worlds - it pivots like a DA and forced rotation like a rotary

Below is general information on polishing. It's a matter of preference on how "carried away" you want to get

Explanation of pad choices



I use Orange, White & Black

Wool Pads
Yes, I like wool pads. If you have experience with them, they can make quick work of things. Without experience you can burn through paint and create deep wheel marks (which are different than swirl marks). Swirl marks look like spider web marks - similar to what a rough auto carwash will do to paint over time. Wheel marks are created by the polishing pad, too much heat. They look like tiger stripes when the sun hits the paint just right
I have a cut wool pad and a polish wool pad - the main difference is cut wool is less dense and fibers are rough. Polish wool is much more dense and softer fibers

Priming pad before use
I will mist the pad with a quick detailer spray first then prime pad
Once primed, you place three to four pea sized dollops of compound/polish on pad - good to go. Common mistake made is using too much product, caking up the pad & paint. A little product goes a long way

How to clean used pads
https://www.detailedimage.com/Ask-a-...ter-polishing/

Micro Fiber Towels

Micro Fiber Application pad (for finish wax/sealant)

And to totally go down the rabbit hole of polishing
http://www.buffdaddy.com/kevinbrownmethod
http://www.buffdaddy.com/files/15195...ageversion.pdf