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Thank you all for helping me out!
I will stay clear of the "yellow" for sure! I want the real deal.
dnmfranco, you seem to know these cars pretty well. Can you please elaborate and give me more information that would be useful in order for me to find the right car?
Thanks guys,
DaveT
Hi dave best thing to do when you find a car of interest let me know and can navigate you what to look for.
Can't stress enough if it doesn't have paper work treat as a 442 w w-30 components.
Also another person to get advice from is Tim Murphy . In my opinion one of the most knowledgeable in 69 w-30 and 32s. He has personally been involved w restorations on both models. Both frame offs , so know these cars inside and out
But again happy to help just pm me your questions and or photos.
Dean thank you for the reply.
Not sure if you are on the east coast or not but would you be willing to check the car out for me if I get lucky??? Lol
I will cover all your cost +.
I think the most important issue for you (maybe?) is to find one of the 121 cars with solid documentation. That would be the POP card, an original window invoice calling out the VIN AND W30, and info from the original purchasing owner and dealer restoration specific photos etc.... That would be rock solid docs. The VIN should start out ...344679M to at least reflect a legit 1969, 442, Lansing built vert. You could get lucky and find the line card under the seat or carpet (if it was restored hopefully that was found and is part of the docs you get with the sale). But as a rule the M code cars which is where ALL 69 W30 cars were built, didn't have the cards within. Though a few cards have been found in M code cars. Theres a recent thread here stating such but its for a 70 W30.
A 69 automatic car will have the VIN stamped into the trans case. This is a little step towards authentication of an automatic car if the trans has the correct OW code. If the Engine, Trans and VIN all match up thats good...but all of those parts could be swapped into another 69 vert body. And the OW tag is being reproduced, so are the rosette rivets for the VIN tag!
If you cant find a documented W car then your second choice is to find one with all the correct date coded parts with 344 & M in the vin. This car will be worth less because an M code 442 could have all the W30 parts bolted on. If you are not concerned with the paper trail and want to gamble that a W30 without docs is a W30 then Id expect the car to sell under market, or to be priced as a 442 vert would be... You also need to be cognizant that if you purchase a car sans documents you will need to go through the same thing when and if you sell.
A crafty counter fitter can apply All of the correct tid bits to a car to fake a 69 W30 vert... from the vin tag to the date coded parts to the correct rear end so buyer beware.
FYI the 68 W30 verts are just as rare as the 69s. You'd open yourself up to another 170 cars. 127 sticks 43 automatics.(how many are left of each year is a guess).
If you have deep pockets hold out for a one owner car with documentation. Might not be your exact color combo or option choices but it would be legit if thats important.
Im not here to scare you away but to make you an informed buyer. The best thing you could do is find someone in the OCA group who is well versed on how to spot the real deal and pay him to inspect the car even if you need to fly him to the car.
Last edited by droldsmorland; February 4th, 2016 at 01:27 PM.
Dean thank you for the reply.
Not sure if you are on the east coast or not but would you be willing to check the car out for me if I get lucky??? Lol
I will cover all your cost +.
Thanks you
DaveT
Hi dave I am on the east coast , ct to be exact.
My suggestion is if new owner wants to sell then get very specific pics. The pics should include ow tag, carb pic w 7029254, top of red wells, dist pic w 111933 showing, rad tag pic, pic of rear code and date. This is a start of course pics of heads , air cleaner , scoops and hose going from wind shield wiper bottle to wiper motor.
With these and w hopeful good clear pics this can determine whether you should pursue farther or not. In other words if the car has a bunch of re pop parts and ect plus the no paper work you might want to move on.
Another thing the car has.a power booster for power brakes, 69 w-30's didn't come w them. So we know that is not correct.
But pending where car is sure we could get you situated .
Joe is probably the most knowledgeable on here, Tim Murphy w respects to 69 and can give you more names pending location of car.
Again get good pics to start with , they could save you time and money.
Dean
Last edited by dnmfranco; February 4th, 2016 at 01:56 PM.
You could get lucky and find the line card under the seat or carpet (if it was restored hopefully that was found and is part of the docs you get with the sale). But as a rule the M code cars which is where ALL 69 W30 cars were built, didn't have the cards within. Though a few cards have been found in M code cars. Theres a recent thread here stating such but its for a 70 W30.
When you say "line card" do you mean a trim card or a build sheet? Because, while I agree that it's nearly unheard-of to find a build sheet in a Lansing car, I think it's quite common to find trim cards. My car came with two.
I can tell you how to spot one of the replica D heads I have made.
With so few such cars made, placing color restrictions is probably not helping.
When I redo my car, I do not intend to "restore" it to exactly as the cowl tag says. The next owner can do that right after I die. I will not however feel the need to alter the cowl tag to match the new package. Though I may have one made and fasten it atop the original plate w/o damaging the first one.
Oh and for the AT cars, the VIN stamped trans with OW tag is necessary and sufficient proof of W-ness, barring alterations. In the event of alterations, then anything including all stamps may have been altered, and all bets are off.
What about embracing the tribute car thing- "just" get "a Cutlass" then add all the W30 stuff you want, with your 425, and TH400.... and enjoy the heck out of it while waiting for the Real Thing to appear.
Don't take 442.com as gospel. There are many inaccuracies in there. You can only really rely on the parts that Joe P. wrote.
That is completely untrue, there were other contributors on that site that produced reliable information. Furthermore many collaborated with Joe on many sections in FAQ for instance, so their wrong ????
I have to pick on the side of "442.com" is not a reliable resource. The OP is trying to learn and his current level of knowledge is such that he likely won't be able to figure out what are the red flags on that site.
Hi alI
Dean, I will pm you about Other look fors And part numbers on the 69 W30 convertible.
Thank you for sharing this information with me.
I appreciate everyone's assistance.
Is Steve M on this board? Joe suggested him?
Still waiting to hear from John if the current owner will sell.
Dean also mentioned something about power brakes on the red convertible pictured and that it didn't come with it? Explain?
Sorry for all the questions. My thoughts are all over the place.
Dave T
Last edited by 69W30rag; February 4th, 2016 at 07:38 PM.
Hi alI
Dean, I will pm you about Other look fors And part numbers on the 69 W30 convertible.
Thank you for sharing this information with me.
I appreciate everyone's assistance.
Is Steve M on this board? Joe suggested him?
Still waiting to hear from John if the current owner will sell.
Dean also mentioned something about power brakes on the red convertible pictured and that it didn't come with it? Explain?
Sorry for all the questions. My thoughts are all over the place.
Dave T
Due to cam specs in 68/69 W-30's there wasnt enough vacuum for power brakes. So my guess is a different cam in that car.
That is completely untrue, there were other contributors on that site that produced reliable information. Furthermore many collaborated with Joe on many sections in FAQ for instance, so their wrong ????
I certainly can't take credit for all the good info there. As noted, most of the useful information was provided by other sources. Chris Witt provided nearly all of the casting number data based on his personal databases, for example. The problem is that there are a few key bits of bad info that keep being repeated, and there's no easy way to edit the info. Unfortunately, without the errata guide, a newbie can't know what those are.
Not seriously. You apparently have not followed the other thread about truth decay at MCR.
Dean also mentioned something about power brakes on the red convertible pictured and that it didn't come with it? Explain?
All 1968-1969 W-30s came with the 328/328 deg cam. This did not provide enough vacuum to reliably operate power brakes or the vacuum-operated HVAC system on A/C cars, so neither of those options were available with the W-30 package in those years. Any "W-30" from 68-69 that has power brakes and/or A/C is either fake or has had the cam changed or an aux vacuum pump added along with adding the power booster.
For completeness, in the 1970 model year, Olds built two different motors called W-30s. The manual trans motors got this same 328/328 cam and thus were also not available with A/C, power brakes, or other vacuum-powered options. The automatic trans motors got the 285/287 cam from the Toro W-34 motor, which did generate sufficient vacuum.
You may ask yourself how these two very different cams produced the same HP and torque...
Here's the 442 page from the 1969 dealer SPECS booklet. Note that RPO W30 is N.A. with C60 (A/C), J50 (power drum brakes), and JL2 (power disc brakes). Not shown is the manual disc brake option, which was added mid-year, after this document was printed.
Thanks for this information Joe.
MCR? Truth decay? Where can I read this? So don't use Steve M to verify a car?
I'm hoping Dean can help depending on the location of the car.
Thanks for this information Joe.
MCR? Truth decay? Where can I read this? So don't use Steve M to verify a car?
I'm hoping Dean can help depending on the location of the car.
Ill stick up for 442 dot com. Its is a good source for a lot of info. Its certainly not a one stop data bank as some of the info is missing or incorrect. But as a whole its a good source. I wish the site was updated from 1999(or when ever its inception was). I've been on it since 2001ish. A lot of the blanks can and should be filled in for archive purposes. The search function definitely sux. So does the return function that should bring you back out to the page your on verses all the way back out to the front page after posting...frustrating for sure. Where do the submissions for corrections go? Into the abyss? Who monitors the site? Someone needs to purchase it and up date the site/server. These are the main reasons why the site is slowly dying.
Ill stick up for 442 dot com. Its is a good source for a lot of info. Its certainly not a one stop data bank as some of the info is missing or incorrect. But as a whole its a good source. I wish the site was updated from 1999(or when ever its inception was). I've been on it since 2001ish. A lot of the blanks can and should be filled in for archive purposes. The search function definitely sux. So does the return function that should bring you back out to the page your on verses all the way back out to the front page after posting...frustrating for sure. Where do the submissions for corrections go? Into the abyss? Who monitors the site? Someone needs to purchase it and up date the site/server. These are the main reasons why the site is slowly dying.
The site is owned by a purveyor of Oldsmobile parts, which is why you aren't allowed to mention vendors by name. The 1990s forum software that prevents editing posts or attaching photos and files is another major reason for the lack of participation. There's also a fairly heavy-handed moderator function, again due to the commercial nature of the ownership. It's unfortunate, as that was once THE Oldsmobile site on the web, but it's kinda gone the way of Yahoo, WebCrawler, and AskJeeves.
Frankly, I'm also curious as to how a commercially-backed site got control of the FAQs that were created jointly by the Olds community. There was the short-lived OldsWiki, but that also crashed and burned.
I donated all the info I had to the FAQ files for the General Good of the populace. This was back when the Search for the SMW403 was still ongoing. I did end up sending erroneous info due to copy-n-paste, then forget to edit.... which is still out there. It is very hard to have NO errors in anything.
"You may ask yourself how these two very different cams produced the same HP and torque... "
And, you may say to yourself, this is not MY powerful camshaft
And, you may ask yourself, "how did I get here?"
I donated all the info I had to the FAQ files for the General Good of the populace. This was back when the Search for the SMW403 was still ongoing. I did end up sending erroneous info due to copy-n-paste, then forget to edit.... which is still out there. It is very hard to have NO errors in anything.
What these kids today don't understand is that all the FAQ info came from the listserver posts, and the only formatting we had was the space bar. Needless to say, tables got screwed up in a hurry.
Don't even get me started on the "ASCII graphics".
Steve M has NOTHING to do with the mistakes in the MCR article. Beat him up on something he has written, but not something done by two other people who don't know Oldsmobiles.
Steve, among others, is one guy that may be able to help the OP out.
Thank you for your input Diego.
Is Steve M on this board? I'd like to see if he will look into the car for me, that being the red car if I get lucky
What does Steve M do? Is it a service he offers? Never have heard of him.
I certainly can't take credit for all the good info there. As noted, most of the useful information was provided by other sources. Chris Witt provided nearly all of the casting number data based on his personal databases, for example. The problem is that there are a few key bits of bad info that keep being repeated, and there's no easy way to edit the info. Unfortunately, without the errata guide, a newbie can't know what those are.
My bad. I was just trying to get a laugh. I'll just say that while 442.com can be a useful resource, it's most effective for those who already have enough knowledge to separate the wheat from the chaff when it comes to Olds lore.
We have progress as I have been in contact with the "new" owner of the red car. He has already sent me some pictures that I will post on here if I can figure out how to. Help please???
Also, I am going to forward the pictures to Dean and Steve M. I really appreciate all of you helping me and passing information on how to contact Steve.
The plan is to have the car inspected by one of the two mentioned above and then we can go from there.
I was also wrong to where the car is now located. The car is now located in the Midwest.
I will cover all expenses including flights to confirm authenticity of this particular W30 - my dream car!
We have progress as I have been in contact with the "new" owner of the red car. He has already sent me some pictures that I will post on here if I can figure out how to. Help please???
Scroll down to the Additional Options box and click on the Manage Attachments button. You can only upload up to five photos at a time, and they must be under 4.77 meg each.
Hi guys,
I messaged Steve and Dean this afternoon.
I have not heard back from Steve as of yet about doing a "Rocket Report" on this red convertible as recommended by a few members on this board. Anyone have a phone number for Steve M? I need to get this done in a hurry - so I don't lose out on my dream car.
I did hear back from Dean, unfortunately due to family commitments he is unable to inspect the car for me in person. He is willing to help as much as he can and I really do appreciate that. I really thank all of you for your assistance.
I still can't figure out how to post pictures on this site. I'm not a young fellow and technology is not my thing. I will forward the pictures to Dean and hopefully he can figure out how to post pictures. I'm looking forward to everyone's input on this car.
Hi guys,
I messaged Steve and Dean this afternoon.
I have not heard back from Steve as of yet about doing a "Rocket Report" on this red convertible as recommended by a few members on this board. Anyone have a phone number for Steve M? I need to get this done in a hurry - so I don't lose out on my dream car.
I did hear back from Dean, unfortunately due to family commitments he is unable to inspect the car for me in person. He is willing to help as much as he can and I really do appreciate that. I really thank all of you for your assistance.
I still can't figure out how to post pictures on this site. I'm not a young fellow and technology is not my thing. I will forward the pictures to Dean and hopefully he can figure out how to post pictures. I'm looking forward to everyone's input on this car.
Pictures coming soon.
Thanks
DaveT
Dave, where is the car? I may know a very knowledgeable person who could help you. He helped me evaluate my car when I bought it.
Please send me a pm.
These pics are from Dave who has received them from current owner of car. I am posting them per him as he would like input from others. I have not talked to current owner so only know what I am receiving far as pics that I just received from Dave. Based on the few thus far (he is sending more) told him to keep looking.
Carb should be 7029254 but instead owner received 7029253 which is a manual 69 4 speed carb. Now I have had 5 over the years and none of had this stamping. Next carb is 7028254 which is this was a 68 ..... Also unsure of its originality.
February 4th, 2016, 12:50 PM
