Freaky1

So it begins, I've had this '64 Starfire convertible in my garage for almost 15 years but I knew the level of time and commitment it would require and wasn't going to start it and let it sit half done. Now I've reached the time for it to be back on the road, I won't be doing a complete frame off gig, as much as I'd like to. I'm really just trying to fix what needs to be fixed, make a few smart changes, and get it back on the road where it belongs.

I added the link to my intro thread so I wouldn't have to go over all that again, but I'm sure some of you are curious about the thread title. I bought this from the son of an old family friend who'd passed away a few years prior. His son had moved into a new subdivision and the garages that were in the neighborhood were not big enough for the Starfire to fit. He put it on the market and knowing the condition of this car I was not going to leave it sitting outside in the Northern Colorado weather. Here is the link to more or less my whole story.
https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...lo-denver.html

Like I said, I'd like to do an entire frame off resto but I really don't think at this point it's needed. I think the car is in fantastic shape for being 50 years old & having spent a good part of it's life in Minnesota. Rust is minimal, only a little bubbling around the rear wheel wells & the inside edge of the deck lid. The driver's door is a bit saggy, the hinges are shot but I've already got a line on replacements. The tranny is toast enough that it's coming out, maybe for good, but more on that later. Plus there are a few other minor issues but nothing that's going to require me to sell my first born, I hope.

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I opened up the brakes in front because on the last official driving day there was some unpleasant noises coming from the left front. When I got them opened up I found several broken springs that clearly had been broken for some time. I found all new springs sets and cleaned everything up, the shoes and drums were in decent shape so I painted the drums, repacked the bearings and added new brake hoses.

Now I'm on to the engine and trans!

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Did I need to take everything off the way I did? Probably not but if you look closely you'll notice some funk in the area of the battery tray. A while back I was charging the battery and it boiled over. That has got to be cleaned and painted so yea, it had to come off. Also I'm going to have the radiator and heater coil sent off to be cleaned & checked. I want to clean up the engine bay too, degrease and paint.

One of the mods I plan to make is replacing the master cylinder with a dual reservoir unit, and while I'm at that I'll be replacing the brake lines too. I've got a new MS on the way from a 66 Cadillac that, as I understand from reading here, has the line connections on the motor side.

The interior is pretty good too, just some minor wear and tear issues. I've got a buddy who is going to make me up some new seat covers so that will look sharp when it's done.

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The top is mechanically in good shape, everything moves but the pump is empty so I haven't tried that yet. The top itself is shot, that P.O.s dog decided to sleep up there and now there is a giant hole.

My question on that is, I've seen places that offer tops through the mail, does anyone have any experience with these? My friend who is doing the seats isn't equipped to make a top but has the knowledge to put one on. I do know other shops locally that could do it but I like my time frame better than dropping the car off with someone. Any advice on that would be great.

The cornerstone of this project at this point is the transmission. I didn't like the mushy way it felt before it really started to slip and I certainly haven't read many good things about the ol' Roto-Hydromatic. I've read here about doing the swap with a TH400 & Ross Racing making the new bell housing (https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...e-project.html), and the 700R4 & Bendsen's adapters (https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums/transmission/15767-700r4-coversion-into-64-starfire-394-pics.html). The 1st part of the latter that I'm not fond of is the cutting to make it fit. Not that I couldn't do it but I really don't want to cut the car up. In the thread I was reading on the TH400 swap it appeared that the original trans mount could also be used, with some mods, but there was no need to add another mount and I like that too.

I'm leaning towards the TH400/Ross option but my question is do I need to do a TH400? On Ross' website they show that they can do a TH350 as well. I've got a good line on a TH350 that will need to be rebuilt anyway so it seems like the universe is pushing me that way. But it does appear to be a shorter and smaller tranny and was just wondering what everyone's thoughts are on that. As far as the engine, it's going to stay stock, I do plan on cleaning it up with new gaskets and maybe a new cam but anything internal will be determined when I get it out and can inspect it up close. It ran good before I started pulling it apart, minor smoke but quite smooth, so nothing is glaringly wrong at this point.

I've been poking around this forum for a while and feel like I've got a fairly solid plan on where I want to go with my Starfire. The info I've gotten here has been priceless and I'm always willing to learn more so please, let me hear your thoughts and questions.

Some neat history from our old family friend. I do plan on leaving this as the history of this car, or any car in my mind, is important.

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redoldsman

This can really be a great car. I would paint that rascal red which would look great with the black interior. That is just me and it it your car so you should do what you like. The turbo 350 will be plenty of transmission for your car. I would love to put one in my 54 but I don't know if the floor would have to be cut. There is no way I would do that on that car. I will be following closely if you decide to go that route.

Don R.

Looks like you have a very nice car to start with and that is more than half of the battle. If you haven't already done so you should remove all the carpet, seats. and trunk covering and check for rust, there can be a lot hiding under, especially with a convertible. Also pop the windshield trim to check for rust. If all is solid you are good.


Are you going to keep it original or modify it? It sounds like you are leaning mostly to original except for the trans. Before you trash the Roto, have you changed the fluid and filter and made sure all the linkage is properly adjusted? The linkage alone can make you think the trans is shot when it's not. Worth a try before you spend a lot of time and money on a conversion that may not be reversible.


Looking forward to your project, keep us informed.

Oldskeeper

I have to agree with Don on the transmission, if the slim jim is out of adjustment the shifting is totally wrong and could burn up. I also think that rebuilding this transmission is the correct way to go. I have several 63 and 62 oldsmobiles and have replaced the 63 98 convertible with a rebuilt I purchased from another member on here for less than it would have cost me to rebuild. Talk to a couple of tranny shops that specialize in old transmissions, these guys are still around, once it is rebuilt it will last as long as you have the car. There is a guy in Journey with Olds that sells rebuild kits and I have heard good thins about him, if another trans drops out of one of my cars I'll tackle rebuilding one of my spares using his kits as they have been updated with better clutch face materials.
Just my opinion from one Olds guy to another
Steve, Jaswest

classicmuscle442

Nice Starfire, no help on transmission but like stock myself, did not realize the engine had chrome, love the air cleaner, good luck with your car.

Freaky1

I’m pretty positive that most of the chrome on the motor is not stock, but I’ve been wrong before. The P.O. had a serious love affair with Allen head bolts and replaced lots of the original bolts, especially on the engine.


I plan to stay as stock as possible and given the way the P.O. had the shift linkage set up it wouldn’t surprise me if the SJ could work the way I think it should. On the flip side, one of my neighbors let me have a freshly rebuilt TH350 for a song so I’m certainly looking down that path. Having them sitting side by side they don’t look too different so I don’t think I’ll have to change much to make the swap. I do plan to hang on to the SJ though just because. I’m going to call Ross Racing today and get the scoop there, which could also change the plan.


I haven’t had the carpet up or removed the windshield but everywhere I’ve checked I haven’t seen anything that worries me as far as rust. The paint has been touched up several times over the years and you can tell in many places. I’m a bit nervous about color sanding, rubbing out, or buffing because I don’t want to create some weird white camouflage thing. But unfortunately there are some door dings and nicks, especially on the driver’s side, and some of those will need to be taken care of. I’m thinking of doing a good scratch & squirt in the near future just to hold it over until it can be stripped and done the right way.


I’ll get some good progress pics up this weekend because we all like pics right?

Don R.

The chrome air cleaner is the only stock chromed piece.

Freaky1

The motor is out, on the stand, and ready to be cleaned up.

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A side by side of the SJ & the TH350.

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I want to get this off to Ross Racing as soon as possible so I can have that part in the bag. I was thinking I wouldn't pull the whole front clip off but with the engine out and looking around I think that will make everything easier and look better in the end. I've got my new dual master cylinder and I'm going to scrounge up a two way junction block for the brake lines this week. I'll get some basic cleaning done then get rolling on bending up the new brake lines this week.

Freaky1

Ahhh the best laid plans of mice and men. It's been slower going than I thought, life and such getting in the way. But now I'm back in the saddle and moving forward.

I spoke to Ross Racing and while I do still want to go that way someday, I don't have that kind of cash right now. I want to get her back on the road this spring so I've come up with a new plan, I think. I'm still writing off the original Slim Jim as I did not like that way it worked before. I seem to recall reading that back in the day people got around this dog of a tranny by dropping in a earlier Hydromatic, like '61-ish.

Here is where the questions begin.

1. Is this a viable option? I seem to remember reading that before the redesign Hydromatics were good stuff, reliable and somewhat sturdy, true or false?

2. I'm trying to keep the car as original as possible, meaning I don't want to do a bunch of cutting or mods.

3. I'm guessing I'll need some type of adapter based on what I know about the 394 so far but any advice on bell housing, starter, fly wheel, and the like would be great.

I'm not looking to race her, she's a cruzer pure and simple so I don't need a horse of a tranny just something to get her moving. To me nothing looked worse than her gagging between 1st and 2nd and I'm not going back that way again.

Charlie Jones

The earlier dual coupling hydramatic is a much larger transmission.
It would require major modifications to the floorpan.
My advice, save your money and get the Tony Ross transmission.

Oldskeeper

Have you talked to anyone in Co. that has a 61-64 olds that has had there trans rebuilt?
I have had a couple rebuilt and they work fine, I have also bought a rebuilt and it works fine too.

Eddie Hansen

Very nice project looking forward to following the progress

m371961

With the drum brakes, the switch to a dual master cylinder does not require a proportioning valve junction block. Only if you go to disc,
Beautiful car.

68_convert

An answer to one of your original questions if you havent done anything yet.

I got my last convertible top and will be getting my next top from www.convertibletopguys.com I can't really say how long they last as I sold the last car 2 weeks after putting the new top on but was impressed enough to buy again.

Sweet ride. Good luck on the rebuild.

Freaky1

68_convert - I'll check them out, I haven't done much with the top yet because right now I've got bigger fish to fry.

m371961 - I've looked at a couple disk conversion kits but aside from some broken springs the brakes were fine so I'm sticking with the drums for now.

I had thought about rebuilding the stock tranny and have some good contacts here in town. Seeing as how I've put a Ross case in the budget I even thought rebuilding it would be a good alternative until I've got the money together. Here is where the other shoe falls though.

I had planned to strip down the motor and at least replace all the gaskets and paint. But the deeper I dug into the motor the less happy I was getting. The cylinders are pretty scored and I don't know enough to know if honing and new rings is a viable option. Once I removed the valley pan I found the cam looking like this.

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Now, I'm no engine guru but these do not look good to me. The first two are the cam and those pits look like trouble waiting to happen. The third one is the cam gear and it's not missing teeth but it has a plastic-ish coating and large pieces of it are missing. I pulled the cam and the cam bearings are gouged but it looks like the block is OK.

I'm confident with the correct engine parts/kit I can put all this together correctly and I've got some contacts locally for block and head work. Since I'm already stashing money for the Ross tranny kit I might as well just stash some more and get everything I'm going to need from him. But that is really going to push my timeline out, there is no way with the commitment this is going to require that I'm going to cut corners and risk some cut corner coming back to bit me.

Another idea I had was picking up another Olds power plant and tranny and making some light mods and getting her back on the road while waiting to complete the 394\350 plan properly. I'd like to know if anyone knows of another Olds motor, in the size and power range, of the 394 that mounts up similar to the original. I've got one motor mount under the timing cover and the cross piece under the bell housing of the tranny. Using these would be ideal but I've got no problem making new ones, as long as the major structure of the frame or car isn't disturbed.

I know this would be more work but given that I'm not doing a frame off restoration I'm planning to have all the other work wrapped up this summer. It will be next winter before the 394\350 rebuild will be complete and one weekends worth of work to cruze this summer is ok with me.

Charlie Jones

The only thing that's going to fit without a lot of modification is a 61-64 Olds motor.
I can understand your "itch" to go crusin', but in my opinion you would really be better off putting your time, money,and energy into the 394 and TH350.
That cam, while not totally gone, has one foot in he!! and the other on a banana peel.
As far as the cylinders are concerned, It's probably best to have a machinist "mike" them and go with his recommendation.

Freaky1

Yea, as much as I'd like to take her out I think the reality is that I'll just wait.

I was at a shop party for a buddy yesterday and after getting some feedback I think the motor will get the rebuild first. If I really want to do something to get it on the road at that point I think I'm going to go with rebuilding the Roto. Of all the projects I've got plans for the Starfire will be one that is never sold so I'll keep squirreling money away for the conversion and push that part a little further down the line.

cherokeepeople

i used to have a 64 starfire conv,that car had the most solid floors i have ever came across here in iowa but it had rust on the tops of the front fenders.i see you have a tilt wheel.wish mine had,but i had the cornering lites and the floor button for the radio which was really cool.as for the top if there are remnents of it do not remove them until you get a new top.you need to get the back window in and tight and if your off just a little it will show.as for engines you could go to a 455 and use the front engine mount for a toro but then you would have to make a crossmember for the back,but you might be able to get one from a pontiac of that era as they were a wide body.i have seen cars with a 455 conversion but never got to check out how they did it.i see your in littleton.i'm gonna be out there in may/june might have to hook up with ya.i had mine for 15yrs and looked for 13 of those yrs for a good back bumper.so hopefully yours is good.cuz they are super rare.

Freaky1

I don't know where the car was bought new but I know it spent a lot of time in Minnesota before coming to Colorado. I've got some early rust, bubbled paint, on the rear quarter just over the wheels but that seems to be about it. The inside edge of the deck lid, above the latch, had been replaced and from what I've seen that's not uncommon. I've been under the car quite a bit and haven't seen any rust on the floor pan. I also haven't removed the door panels, or any of the interior, yet so it could be lurking. While the PO wasn't the most car savvy guy he did take care of it and kept it garaged and clean.