1.Hey gary,on the 5.3 is it possible to use the stock fan/clutch assembly with the cutlass's original colling sytem?if yes what made you use a custom aftermarket electric 2 fan setup?

2.How would you compare torque and power of a 350 rocket with intake and headers to that of a stock 5.3l with a carb setup both using a th350?

 

I'm acually a big believer in mechanical fans. I run a mechanical on my 68 corvette along with a temp/AC trinary switch actuated electric.
The only reason I went with dual electrics on the 442 was cost. A dual Windstar electric is cheap, fits the 72 cutlass radiator, and moves a lot of air. And no cowl fab was needed.
Torque on the 327 (5.3) kick a$$ over a 350. The SFI, head design, compression ratio makes it close to a big block.

 

What kind of cowl fab are we talking about?are you saying it cost more to fab the fan cowl instead of buying an electric pump and wiring plus the cost of dual fans?

as far as power and reliability, are you happy that you went with the 5.3 or wish you had an ls1 or 6.0?

 

The truck mechanical fans are big. I used an old cowl as a pattern to fab up a new one in my 68 corvette. Using a good fitting cowl just moves a lot more air thru the radiator. That took a day or 2 to make out of fiberglass.
The Windstar fan was $40 and just bolted up with a couple sheet metal brackets. Simple.
No electric pump on mine, those are really expensive.
I'll let you know about reliability and gas milage after a few trips to the lake. But the 05 5.3 50k miles with all accessories was only $900 shipped. And if I want more power, I can swap out the long block for a 6.0 LQ4 or LQ9.
Oh and I saw your post on carbed motors. The carb single plane intake moves A LOT of air, so they're great for high rpm. The SFI + CR + head design on the LS motors is great for low rpm torque and good gas milage, easy starts, reliability, etc. So it all depends on what you use the car for.

 

Well this is going to be more of a daily driver,but at the same time I want the most power I can get so i am most likely to be getting a double plane intake.In your opinion do you think a stock 5.3l is more than enough power for the cutlass or do you think a cam and springs would be more in order?

 

For a DD, I would keep the fuel injection.
As for more power, I've looked at the LS1 cam swap dyno sheets. The only increases with cams are around 5000rpm and up. So it was not worth a cam or intake swap for me.
Keep in mind the 5.3 I have came out of a 5000lb Chevy Avalanche, so they make respectable power.

 

Can you elaborate more on the engine mount setup you used with the 5.3l? I looked through your thread,but did not get it clear.Exactly what mounts,plates and custom work did you do to make it work? I am thinking of using the th350 that came with the car and an adapter so what would you recommend? also what oil pan did you use?

 

Keep in mind, mine's a 72.
Frame mounts were SBC chevelle, the crossmember was already drilled for them.
Adapter plates were 1" setbacks, similar to edelbrock. Those actually move the motor forward about 1/4". Hooker now makes adapters so that the trans is in original position.
Motor mounts are GM short/wide poly, from Enery Suspension.
I added 1/4" aluminum spacers between the motor mounts and adapter to get better fit and pan clearance.
Oil pan is a CTS-V, new takeoff with pickup, windage tray $140, much cheaper than aftermarkets.
Look on LS1tech. Lots of TH350s and 400s behind LS motors but not sure if the Olds th350 had a different flexplate/torque converter bolt pattern is different from chevy. And I'll assume your th350 has dual Old/chevy block mounting holes????

 

Do you have any pictures of the motor mount set-up? As far as the fuel pump on 5.3 im assuming it has a return line correct?and you said you did not get an electric pump so what are you using? are you using the stock rediator as well?

 

Nice bulid.any pics of the gas tank from the underside? did you use the original gas tank straps?

 

Post 30. I made new straps from 1" x 1/8" flat steel.

 

I used an intank walbro pump (racetronix), 95 caprice tank, with an 02 vette regulator. Return line from the regulator went to the stock return port. I thought you were referring to an electric cooling pump in the earlier post. Stock 72 Olds radiator too.
Adapter, spacer, mount"
DSCN0289.jpg

And the chevelle frame mounts

DSCN0198.jpg

 

As far as the mount setup,who drilled the holes and why? also your setup looks functional,but is there a cleaner way to mount the engine?

 

All the A body frames seem to have the Chevy and Olds frame mount holes predrilled, probably came from the same plant.
There are other adapter plates that place the motor mounts 1" or 1 3/4" back farther on the block. You can use these that place the frame mounts in the middle of the crossmember.
I chose my combo simply because I wanted to use the muncie in the original location, I had the 1" setback plates and poly motor mounts from an earlier project, so all that was needed were $20 ebay chevelle frame mounts.

 

Did you have to modify your driveshaft at all using the muncie?

 

Also what made you go with stock headers?did aftermarket not fit?what kind of clearance do you have with the stock headers relative to the frame rails and steering shaft?

 

I'm using the 4 speed driveshaft. The trans is only about 1/4" forward of the original location.
The original truck exhaust hit the frame. I went with 98-02 f body manifolds because they support 350hp, cost about $40 used, and others have done A body swaps and they fit between the frame, steering, and z bar. Post 98 has a pic.

 

Pretty much finished. Decided to go with a quick easy fix for the glass hood and wing, flat black for now.
Still working on getting the DBW cruise control to run smoothly though.
Oh yeah, and I've been driving around on this 95 degree day with the Classic Air blasting cold and no sign of any overheating. The Windstar fans are moving a lot of air.
DSCN0379.jpg

DSCN0380.jpg

 

Car looks fantastic Gary.
I really admire that you put all the effort into posting as much info as you could.
Keep us posted on how you get this done. I've been curious how people are wiring this up.
Thanks.
You did use the regular plates like you told me via PM right ??
So is it the 1" setbacks or the regular plates ??

One thing I noticed is the Olds mounts I have are 2 5/8" and are on the rear side of the crossmember.
So I am pretty sure those are getting axed being that they would put the engine probably 3-4 inches back.

 

No way the 455 Olds frame mounts will work, way back, way short, and way low.
There are 3 types of adapter plates,
1" setback, these dont share any holes with 4 bolt LS block.
Standard plates share the bottom chevy 3 bolt mount with the bottom front bolt of the LS block.
Then there are the about 1 1/2" forward mounts that share the front top bolt of both mounts.
I think there's a diagram of the last 2 in the LS1tech conversions sticky.
With the muncie I kept the trans/block mounting face as close to stock as possible.
With the setback shifter on your T56, you probably want one of the 2 later plates, chevelle frame mounts, and just drill the crossmember to where ever the correct shifter postition lines up.

As for cruise control, there are some differences in the way the throttle responds between the auto and manual trans cars. It gets a little more complicated with traction control.
In order to keep things simple, I'm trying the 06, 6.0 3500, manual trans stock settings.

 

Gary,

I found this Edelbrock info sheet which breaks down the GM A-body frame mounts with descriptions,
and pictures, and matching Energy mounts that work with them. Obviously you already know this info,
but I'm posting it here for others to read in the future.

http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_.../6000/6701.pdf

Trying to find a cheap source for the small block Chevelle frame mounts,
cheapest I've found is Tamraz in IL by me for $55.
Do you know of any cheaper sources??

Custom console so the shifter location won't be as important for me to get dead on.

BTW I found a thread you were discussing options you went with in the engine bay.
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/conver...-chevelle.html

Someone elses pic.

 

LAME!!!!!! This should be in the NON Olds SECTION!!!!!

 

Hmmmm, seeing as I replaced the entire interior (made everything myself), brakes, all electical, fuel system, added A/C, rebuilt the muncie, rear axle, suspension, steering column, jeep steering box swap, etc..........
I would have thought it would go in the "Major Builds & Projects".

 

Update, just hit 250 miles, combination of hiway/city use, only burned between 10 and 11 gallons. So I'm about 23-24 mpg, not too bad without OD.

 

Agreed for the reasons above and this thread was started before that section was started.

 

Don't feed the trolls Gary. Ignore them.

I think I'll wait for the 2nd evaluation....lol

What is your rear gear and tire height ??

 

26 1/2" tires, 2.73 posi rear end. It's running about 2400 at 70mph.
The muncies 2.6x 1st gear is a little tall with the combo. A 5 speed with around a 3.00 1st and 0.74-0.80 5th would be nice. If I can find a cheap T5, I might try it.

 

Nice write up Gary. How about a T45RS out of a 90's Mustang? I have one in a 68 Vette, nice trans.

 

Thought about that, Keisler is even making a T45 with GM input shaft.
Problem is the 0.63? OD gear. Way too much with a 2.73 rear. The T5 is a pretty weak trans but can be found with 0.63, 0.74, and 0.8 OD gears cheap. The 0.74 or 0.80 would work nicely. BTW, when I put together my clutch package, I used a pressure plate that would work with a 10 spline or 26 spline disc.

 

One area that just confuses the hell out of me......is why they call the TALLER frame mounts, the short and wide.
I can't seem to find these ANYWHERE......I bought a set from TAMRAZ yesterday but they are the shorter (Tall and narrows)
From my understanding, the one's on the left are no longer available anywhere. That's the 307 mounts you used correct??

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/7751095-post262.html


You just saved me a post. At least you're aware of that.

I just picked up a used 2006 GTO flywheel last night with 35K on it for $50.....woot.
Had to drive an hour to get it though......kinda blew.

 

Tall or short referrs to the motor mount. The tall narrow motor mount fits on the shorter frame mount. Guessing you found the post below, overall height of the combination is about the same. So you should be able to use the Tamraz mounts frame mounts with tall narrow motor mounts.
Get a set from Autozone for a 70-72 chevelle BBC, under $20.
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/conver...s-gm-body.html

I saw someone else use these bolted to the BOP mount holes:
http://carshop.carshopinc.com/produc...110328/CSP2380

I used the 307 frame mounts, got them on ebay for $20.

 

Get a set of what from Autozone for $20 ??

I don't see anything in that thread mentioning Autozone. I've read it a few
times this week. I did go to Autozone and they do carry the motor mounts
for a Chevelle for $7.99 a pop

They don't carry the frame mounts, unless you've seen a part # that Autozone uses ??

 

I was referring to the motor mounts, just get the Autozone tall narrow motor mounts ans use them with your Tamraz frame mounts. You still might need to make spacers, depending on the oil pan.

 

You can also check Transdapt.com Holley.com & cachassisworks.com for the frame mounts.

 

I got the Energy 3.1117R motor mounts.

Gary, by chance do you remember where you saw this info ??

 

I just searched and found 3 or 4 threads. Sorry, didn't save them.

 

Does the tank bolt right in without any modifications? I plan on doing a swap and wanted to save money this way rather than getting the original tank sumped.

 

The last 3-4" of frame rail on some cars narrows. I trimmed about 1/4" for an easier fit.
The sending unit/pump sticks up about an inch. I know others have spaced the front edge down, but I cut the trunk and boxed it. I can remove a few screws to get access if the pump goes out.
The original pump is too low pressure and is known for poor wiring. Racetronix makes a kit for $125 that replaces the pump and internal wiring.
The original straps are too short. The caprice ones are supposed to work, but I forgot to ask for them. so I made new ones out of 1 x 1/8" steel.

 

How is the clearance from the manifold pipe flange to the rear lower control arm frame mount on the driver's side in the pic below?

Nice clean swap. Always liked the "looks like it belongs there" swaps.

 

Plenty of clearance. The pic makes it look close but the flange is well below it.