1970 Garage Find

Old December 1st, 2016, 07:26 PM
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1970 Garage Find

I posted a thread in the Newbe folder about my new project, a 1970 442 in Twilight Blue with blue interior, 4 speed car.
A little history, I'm building a 41 Ford truck for a friend and one day a guy comes rolling in the parking lot with a tow truck behind him. The shop I'm working out of belongs to my friend but he had someone else in it a couple years back. On the back of the tow truck is a 1970 442. The guy asks if the other guys still occupy the shop I'm in and I tell him no. He asks me if I know anyone who'd be interested in buying the 442. I ask him to hold on and go back into the shop, jump up and down a few times, put my poker face on and go back out. I tell him I'm interested and ask how much. He says 10k and long story short, we settle on 7k. It's a one owner car, 82k original miles and been in a garage for 31 years, since 1985. We unloaded the car and I verified the numbers on the original pink slip matched the vin on the car. He came back the next day and I gave him the cash and the deal was done. I was the proud owner of one of my all time dream cars.
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Old December 1st, 2016, 07:31 PM
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Cool story and a sweet ride. Any interior pics?
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Old December 1st, 2016, 07:35 PM
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I already have the body off the frame and have had the frame powder coated. I also installed some suspension components, UMI control arms and QA1 rear coil overs. I will work on the underside of the body next, removing all the undercoat and minor surface rust. I have to save some penny's so I can consider my next purchases for the car. Did I mention, I have the most patient wife in the world.
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Old December 1st, 2016, 07:38 PM
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Some interior pics.
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Old December 1st, 2016, 07:39 PM
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Right place right time...Congrats! Sweet ride!
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Old December 1st, 2016, 08:54 PM
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Great find. Beautiful color combo and a post coupe too.

Terry
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Old December 1st, 2016, 09:13 PM
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Yes, congrats! 4 speed, post car. But I have to ask, did you paint the center section of the rear end or is it aluminum? If that's an aluminum center please don't modify the housing in any way that cannot be un-done. The W27 rear ends are uber rare and it could be worth as much as you paid for the whole car.

John
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Old December 2nd, 2016, 05:51 AM
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Oh yeah!
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Old December 2nd, 2016, 05:54 AM
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Fyi

If that is a real W-27 rear end then it is worth more than the $7000 you paid for the car.
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Old December 2nd, 2016, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by oldsmobiledave View Post
If that is a real W-27 rear end then it is worth more than the $7000 you paid for the car.
It's not a W-27 but yes, They are up to $10K plus now
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Old December 2nd, 2016, 08:31 AM
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Looks like a great car!. The 70 blue interior is my favorite also.
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Old December 2nd, 2016, 09:29 AM
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Wow. Nothing like a deal coming to you. Really cool color combo.
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Old December 2nd, 2016, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by jensenracing77 View Post
It's not a W-27 but yes, They are up to $10K plus now
Temporary Thread Hyjack, sorry😳
Eric, what are the tale tell signs? Did the true w-27s have brass plugs where the carrier meets the axel tubes? Thought I saw that in a picture once.


Back to the thread... great work!
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Old December 2nd, 2016, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Troys Toy 70 View Post
Temporary Thread Hyjack, sorry😳
Eric, what are the tale tell signs? Did the true w-27s have brass plugs where the carrier meets the axel tubes? Thought I saw that in a picture once.


Back to the thread... great work!
The ribs are completely different on a W-27
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Old December 2nd, 2016, 06:20 PM
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Nice.

Don't waste your money playing the lottery - you've already hit your number big.

- Eric
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Old December 2nd, 2016, 06:41 PM
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Congrats, Kool 442.

Just like anything else, condition and desirability have a tremendous impact on value.......not all W27 rears have survived without issues and some gear ratios and original stamps are more desireable than others.
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Old December 4th, 2016, 06:35 AM
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Awesome find and great progress. Love the blue exterior and interior with the "code c" blue stripes!
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Old December 4th, 2016, 08:38 AM
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Wow! Great score.
Congrats!
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Old December 4th, 2016, 08:45 AM
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Help me out here guys, what is meant by "post coupe car".
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Old December 4th, 2016, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by hollywood1336 View Post
Help me out here guys, what is meant by "post coupe car".
A car with a B-pillar between the side windows is commonly called a post coupe. Oldsmobile called it a Sports Coupe" but that's a marketing term because I've seen other brands and their Sports Coupes and they were proper hardtops without the pillar.

If you look at old brochures from other years, you may even see Olds call them Club Coupes.
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Old December 4th, 2016, 06:19 PM
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wow..post car...4 speed...cool color...just wow..what a great find
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Old December 4th, 2016, 07:40 PM
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Another question guys, I believe the car has 82k original but I am finding things that lead me to believe the original owner ran this car pretty hard. One indication is, the motor has already been bored .030 over and the crank is -.020 on all the journals.
I am going to rebuild the tranny, even though it looks and shifts perfect, feels tight. While it's out I might as well do it. The rear axel is 3.42, and the tranny is definitely a Muncie. What Muncie is it likely the be, M20, M21 or M22, where are the serial numbers that would tell me. And where is the best place to buy a rebuild kit.
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Old December 4th, 2016, 11:13 PM
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Is the block #'s matching? Stamping on left side front of block should be stamped example: 30Mxxxxxx, the M could be another letter because that designates the build plant and the X's would be last 6 digits of your VIN. Your trans should be an M-21 and it should also have a VIN derivative stamp like the block. There should also be a stamping starting with a P and should end with a B, B designates M-21.
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Old December 5th, 2016, 05:50 PM
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These are the stamped numbers on the gearbox, all the others are cast.
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Old December 5th, 2016, 06:44 PM
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The main case casting number (392566) indicates a 1970-'74 date range, while the Muncie date code (P0C26) indicates the transmission was constructed at the Muncie plant on March 26, 1970 (P=Muncie Plant, 0=1970, C=March).

So far, so good.

Muncies in this age range are supposed to have an A, B, or C after the date code to indicate the model (20, 21, or 22), but I don't see any here.
Also, the side cover number (3952642 or -48) indicates a transmission with a TCS switch, which I think could be late 1970, or maybe early '71, but should not be there in early '70.

The number stamped where the VIN derivative sure looks like C21434181.
This is a problem, since as far as I know, the VIN derivative should be exactly the same as the one on the block (stamped with the same stamp at the same time, I believe).
It should be 30Mxxxxxx, with the 3 for Oldsmobile, the 0 for 1970, the M for the Lansing plant (or a different letter for a different plant), and the last six digits of the car's VIN.
I believe the possible initial digits were 1, 2, 3, 4, or 6 (assuming availability in Chebby, Pontiac, Olds, Buick, and GMC, but not in Cadillac), so C is out of the question.
Someone who knows more about this may be able to shed light on whether the transmission perhaps came from a different make (AMC?) or an aftermarket source.

I do not know the significance of the stamped tag number (1234762KA).

I hope this is helpful.

- Eric
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Old December 5th, 2016, 06:58 PM
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heres what i think..may or not be true, just past experiences

1234762KA is the part number.....the KA is usually on the broadcast card ..may or may not be original to the car..I'm not up on Olds trans codes..the tag may be the right one but the trans is a replacement wierd stuff happens over 40 years..i'm not real sure what it is...just going with past experiences

it may be just as simple as a part number since the trans is a service piece

C21434181..C is counter part the rest is accounting and warranty info

if it was a service piece replaced under warranty, that number would end up on paper work for the car to track warranty information..ive seen some orig paper work and invoices showing, thats the number that gets recorded

Last edited by marxjunk; December 5th, 2016 at 07:35 PM.
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Old December 5th, 2016, 07:05 PM
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Tag #1234762KA is the part# for a 1970 M-21
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Old December 5th, 2016, 07:06 PM
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Okay, got it.

1234762 is the part number listed for 1970 4/S S.T. close ratio H.D., which means that whichever transmission that tag was originally attached to was an M21.

And since the C prefix in the VIN derivative location means "Counter Part," we know that this transmission was a replacement, whether originally for this car or for a different car.
It was likely not a dealer replacement, since the dealer was "supposed" to re-stamp the VIN derivative on the new parts.

Thanks, Mark!

- Eric

edit: Cross-Posted!
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Old December 5th, 2016, 08:36 PM
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If it is the original transmission, then it is an M-21. It was the only transmission available in the 442 for 1970. Are you keeping the rest of the car original? Staying with the original 14" rims or going with 15" for better tire selection? The 15" wheel is sort of the optional rim size, as it was offered as option in 1970 until it was cancelled in late August for a reason no one seems know.
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Old December 6th, 2016, 11:18 AM
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Great find. Congrats. Hands down the bets color for '70 442's
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Old December 6th, 2016, 11:53 AM
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color combo

Originally Posted by droptopron View Post
Great find. Congrats. Hands down the bets color for '70 442's
A great color indeed but far from the best to these & many other eyes.
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Old December 6th, 2016, 07:40 PM
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Took a magnifying glass to the gear box, this is the number my son, daughter, wife and I come up with, C24434187. The 34187 matches the last five numbers of my Vin. These numbers are also on the motor.
I appreciate all the feedback.
Still deciding on a direction for the car, exterior and interior colors and performance level for the motor. I know a few good engine guys out here (San Diego), but I will definitely be looking to the forum for some help as well.
My interior door panels (cards) and rear interior panels are pretty ruff, where is the best place to go for 442 panels. I see a lot of Cutlass S panels advertised, but I'm told they wont fit the 442.
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Old December 7th, 2016, 11:48 AM
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not to create confusion, but to open the discussion..and some personal thought..i'm thinking out loud here..


since theres no plant designator in the stamp like P for the Pontiac plant or K for the Kansas plant...it could still be a service piece

"C" could be counter as we already discussed and the first couple numbers could be internal book keeping and the service department would/could hand stamp the VIN derivative..(a small google shows "C" and "CP" and CT as counter/service piece on muncies

OR

a human miss stamped it..if multi car models are built on the line, it could be human error and the guy stamping numbers just didnt get the right stamps in the gang holder..the Kasnsas Plant was a Chevy plant that built Chevelles, Impalas, Pontiacs..like GTO and Lemans and Oldsmobiles too...i dont know if it built A-Bodys, but believe they built B-Bodies.. for Olds...just cant remember

more research needed...id look at several other trans stamps, and see how they are stamped...

i personally think the stamp should start like this if its the orig to the car...

0..not C...for 70
3, not 2..3 would be Olds..2 would Pontiac (IIRC 4 is Buick)

then it would need a plant designator like "M" , then the VIN sequence etc to be a "good" stamp Like 03M4434187..

correction...30Mxxxxxx..i had it wrong

Last edited by marxjunk; December 7th, 2016 at 01:31 PM.
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Old December 7th, 2016, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by marxjunk View Post
i personally think the stamp should start like this if its the orig to the car...

0..not C...for 70
3, not 2..3 would be olds..2 would Pontiac (IIRC 4 is Buick)

then it would need a plant designator like "M" , then the VIN sequence etc to be a "good" stamp Like 03M4434187..
Actually should be ex: 30M123456
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Old December 7th, 2016, 01:29 PM
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you are correct sir..i was running out the door...and when i got back to this, i see i had it wrong
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Old December 8th, 2016, 06:44 AM
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Originally Posted by hollywood1336 View Post
My interior door panels (cards) and rear interior panels are pretty ruff, where is the best place to go for 442 panels. I see a lot of Cutlass S panels advertised, but I'm told they wont fit the 442.
Legendary is typically the highest quality. PUI are cheaper, not quite as nice, but perfectly serviceable and sold by more parts houses.
If you don't hear otherwise here, I'd recommend calling Fusick for advice or see if Legendary has any hints. Legendary's catalog shows both the S and Supreme style as applicable to 442. No idea what that means.
Regardless, I'm 99% certain either style will "fit". I haven't messed around with the guts of a post door, but the cards and general hardware all swap around.

From the pic of the rear panel, it looks like the car has the "S" style cards now.
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Old December 8th, 2016, 07:08 AM
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theres diffs from hardtop to post car...its the metal backer that sits on the top of the door and holds the weather strip etc, its notched for the post car and a post car has a window crank for the wing window....but un assembled panels dont have the backer so they work on both..im not sure if they are equipped/ready for the extra window crank..but would bet they are

dont get them assembled, they use plastic backers and they are just horrible...use the backers off your original panels..the top rail is the piece at the top of the door panel, thats curved and your arm would rest on if you stuck it out the window..the lock button comes thru it etc..

legendary is the best avail on the market..but are slow, very slow, and they do stand behind their product but they are getting more lax and are slow to do anything..

i can tell legendary from PUI just walking up on it..the PUI stuff is good stuff, but very flat looking, and just not really concours stuff..or at least i used to be able..ive hung so much PUI stuff, its a blur..

a W30 deserves legendary, in my mind...99% of the people looking in a car would never notice or care about how it looks, as long as its nice and looks right..so maybe a nice resto on a lesser quality car the PUI stuff is more than fine
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Old November 23rd, 2017, 07:57 PM
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Any update on the progress of this car?
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