Bronco Fan

Hello everyone! I am still fairly new to the site and thought it was time to post about my project which is still in the early stages.

I am in the process of transforming my 1970 Cutlass into a 442 clone. I plan to build the car while keeping it in driving condition as much as possible. It has a 350, 2V Olds motor from the mid 70's and a TH400 automatic transmission right now. Currently I am in the process of choosing some of the parts I need to buy before I can install the new engine. Any advice or wisdom you all may have would be welcomed.

So here's where I'm at. I have a 455 out of a 1968 Toronado. The engine ran great and had excellent oil pressure and compression before I pulled it out of the donor car. According to what I've read this engine had a compression ratio of 10.5:1 and the big valve "C" heads. I was able to confirm the bigger valves once I had it apart. I also discovered it had a fairly recent rebuild with a .030" overbore. I reused the crank, rods, and pistons and changed the camshaft, cam bearings, lifters, and timing chain set. The cam is a Mondello MW-30 which I understand is supposed to be like a factory W-30 cam with .474 lift on the intake and the exhaust, and 328 deg. duration. I kept the stock pushrods, and rockers. The intake is an Edelbrock Performer dual plane. I am planning to buy a carburetor, headers, and torque converter next.

For the carburetor I'm thinking of using an Edelbrock 1806 which is a 650 cfm square bore with an electric choke. I was originally going to rebuild the carb that came with the Toronado. Took it apart yesterday and found out that somebody dropped it at some point and bent the primary throttle shaft and broke the base plate where the shaft goes in so I am no longer interested in rebuilding it. I like the looks of the Edelbrock carb and it seems to be fairly user friendly when it comes to tuning it. My question is do they sell the correct metering rod springs and jets to compensate for the low vacuum signal at idle? They claim they do but I'd rather get some opinions from people who have been there and done that before pulling the trigger.

For the headers it looks like Flowtech 31154 FLT. I've seen comments both positive and negative on these. Looking for best bang for the buck here.

On the torque converter I was thinking of a Hughes GM25. It advertises a 2500 stall speed. The Mondello website says the rpm range for the cam is 2200-5500.

Again if any of you have any opinions please share them. Look forward to hearing what you all have to say.

oldzzy

Looks like a nice car to start with. Good idea to keep it driveable, but watch out for the MAW's (might as wells) lol.

Bronco Fan

Thanks. I wanted to keep it driveable because I don't have a pile of money for a frame off resto right now and I want to enjoy it now instead of waiting for a decade or two to get a finished product. Plus I feel like if it is a running car it will keep my interest up and it will get done sooner. The idea of taking it to Sonic on Friday nights for others to witness the progress will keep me going too. I hear you on the MAW's. Its awfuly tempting sometimes to go outside the budget!

Bronco Fan

So the first setback just happened. I get to the shop this morning and I'm told the shifter broke! I go check it out and sure enough the stick broke in half! Does anyone out there have a shifter to sell?

Bronco Fan

I should have specified I need a floor shifter for an automatic trans. If anyone can help me let me know. Thanks.

oldzzy

Lots of people should have one, try putting an add in the wanted section.

droptopron

IMO a 650 sounds small. You should look at the 750 they offer.

Bronco Fan

I thought the same thing but supposedly the 650 is supposed to have better throttle response. It won't flow as well at higher rpms but I don't plan on running it real hard. If a 750 would have good enough driveability I might do that instead.

ziff396

If you go with the Hughes converter, make sure they send you one for BOP not chebby like I had one shipped to me. It came in a BOP labled box. It won't clear the counter weight on the flexplate. Shiming it will make the end play to tight. Been there.

droptopron

A stock Quadrajet was either 750 or 800 CFM.

ziff396

I am running a 800 cfm Quadrajet on mine tuned to the car and I am very happy with this carb after going the route of Edelbrock 750 and Holley street avenger 850. The vacume carb will only flow what is required from the engine. The Edelbrock is mechanical. Alot of people like these though. Been there again with a couple of different engines and I really like the Quadrajet set up right. JMO

ziff396

Why Clone it? Been there with other cars. And almost did this one. Not worth the hassles at shows or even on the street. Is it real etc. type of thing. Like I have said many times before- Mine is faster and handles better. And basicly it's the same car. JMO. Good luck with your project.

jimibegin

I'm converting my 70 Cutlass to a 442 W-30 tribute.
Definitely go with at least 750 cfm on the big block.
Hooker headers are good too.
I'm debating Mallory or MSD ignition.

cutlassefi

Nice car!!

Just an FYI, on recent dyno run with a mildly cammed 455, I put a 750 Quick Fuel Slayer series carb on it. At full throttle it was still pulling 2" of vacuum. A 650 would be a bigger mistake. Use at least a 750. Properly tuned it'll run just fine.

Bronco Fan

If it came in a mislabeled box how did you find out it was for a Chevy? Are there markings on the converter itself or did you only find out after installing it? I'm not locked in on a Hughes brand necessarily. My goal is getting something that will be as close as possible to the advertised stall speed without costing a fortune. Hoping to find one for less than $200 as long as it's not built cheaply.

dster69442

X2 on the 750. I have almost the identical set-up on my 68 455 from a Toro. The 650 Rochester could not provide sufficient fuel flow, as soon as I changed to a Holley 750 double pumper it was like night and day. It now runs amazing at bottom and top end with absolutely no bogging. Good luck with your project.

Bronco Fan

I am a big Quadrajet fan but admittedly I really like the physical appearance of the Edelbrock AVS series which they do offer in an 800 cfm. If it is possible to get correct performance out of the Edelbrock I would prefer the look of the Edelbrock over the Quadrajet. I would like to keep the cost of the carburetor and air cleaner around $400 or less.

Bronco Fan

If I could score a Quadrajet tuned for this engine for about $350 I would prefer to do that as long as it has a new appearance. So far everything I've seen in my price range leaves a lot to be desired in terms of appearance. Since everything on this engine looks like new I don't want to put on a dingy looking carb. I've seen some good looking Rochesters but they all seem to cost way more than my budget would allow. If anyone knows of one out there please let me know.

Bronco Fan

Thank you! I like it too. Thanks for the information. I'm not familiar with the carb you are describing, What type is it and who makes it? What would be involved in tuning it to work in my setup with the stock 455, "C" heads, and MW-30 Cam?

Bronco Fan

I really wanted a 442 but I couldn't find a decent candidate in my price range. The reason this one would make a good clone is the body is pretty good, it needs a new rear bumper, the grilles are bad, and the motor is incorrect. If I need to change those parts anyway, 442 notched bumper and 442 grilles aren't that much more expensive. I don't care if people ask whether it's real or not. I like the look of the 442 so since I can't afford to buy a real one I'll just build one I can afford. I think most folks can appreciate that, but if they don't, oh well.

ziff396

I actually knew right away when I opened the box. The BOP concerters have raised pods where the bolts go in to clear the counter weight and the Chebby converters don't. I was told that this would still work if I shimmed it. Well, it didn't and I could not return it as it had fluid in it and had been installed on to the trans.
You know, "Everything you hear on the internet is true"

Bronco Fan

So here's an update. I bought an Edelbrock 1813 carburetor which is an 800 cfm. I'm hopeful it will tune properly. It came with a free air cleaner which was nice. I also bought the Hughes 2500 stall converter. Next I need to aquire some non A/C alternator brackets that mount on the passenger side. After reading the instructions for the ceramic headers online, I've decided to wait on purchasing those until after breaking in the cam. So for now I'm planning on running the 350 exhaust manifolds I already have during break in. If anyone has ever done that with a 455 before, let me know how that went for you. Since the deck height is different, I'm guessing the exhaust pipes will need to be extended downward a bit.

I was able to get the broken shifter welded back together and it looks like it's going to hold! One less thing to spend money on.

Bronco Fan

Got some non A/C alternator brackets from ROCKETMAN269V. Stripped, painted , and installed them yesterday. Just about time to remove the old engine and prep the engine bay!

442rocketdave

just my opinion but I NEVER had any luck with a 650cfm carb on any of the many 455's that I have built and ran. Especially with mild modifications and a W-30 cam! 750 run great for street driven and 850 especially good on a more modified engine doing weekend duty at the track. The 650 is like CutlassEFI said a mistake!!! You will be very happy with the 750 and tune it to your application. Rochesters are great carbs if tuned properly! Great project and keep us informed

Bronco Fan

I got an 800 cfm Edelbrock and am planning on tuning it. Here is the latest pic.

442rocketdave

That will work great I have one of the edelbrock 850 quadrajets before they discontinued them, I also have a 850 cfm quadrajet from a Ford 429 super cobra jet and it runs great! Your motor looks super and keep up the good work you will definitley enjoy it when you done!

Bronco Fan

Wow time flies! I can't believe it's been over 4 years since my last post. I have had to postpone the 442 project for a number of reasons which can be summed up with one word - life. I also moved from Colorado to California to be near my family. Before I moved I got the car running and it runs strong! I still need to change the rear axle from an open unit with highway gears to something more befitting a 442. It's hard to keep from doing one wheel burnouts any time it takes off from a stop! I started doing some rust repair behind the left rear wheel well before moving but I never got it sealed up and now I'm starting to think I should just bite the bullet and just put new quarters on it. I'll keep you posted on my decision.

Last Saturday I did manage to get a 442 grille and new headlight bezels from OPGI. One of the benefits to living in California is there are lots of good parts suppliers within a reasonable driving distance! Yesterday I was able to get the front bumper my wife bought me for Christmas (a year and 4 months ago), and the bezels, and grilles installed.

I didn't plan on this project taking so long, but I'm hopeful to get it back on track and start posting more updates!

Cutdog70

Just came across this thread, I'm actually building a 455 to put in my 70 S as well. Did you purchase the Hughes gm25 converter? I'm thinking of using it for now with my th400. Don't want to spend a lot of money on the trans because I plan to go with a tko600 in the next few years.

Bronco Fan

Yes I did purchase the Hughes GM25 converter. Since I put in the 455 I've put maybe no more than 200 miles on the car so I can't really speak to how well it will hold up. That being said I can tell you going with the 2500 stall speed was the right choice. I'm anxious to find out how well it works once the rear end ratio is correct (planning on going to a 3.23 posi eventually). Good luck on your build!

Cutdog70

How does the motor idle with the gm25? Im going with a cam just a little bigger than the cam you used. That's my main concern, glad I have somebody to ask who has one!

By the way, your build is looking great! The 455 I'm building now is very similar to yours. Looking forward to some more updates and pictures.

Bronco Fan

I haven't had any problems with the way it idles. One thing I would say though is I don't have a power brake booster to worry about. If you have a vacuum power brake booster I'd be more concerned about the additional vacuum demand affecting the idle if you're using a bigger cam. I don't think the GM25 converter will be an issue in terms of idle quality.

Thanks for the compliment! Do you have any pics of your build? Would love to see them!