txrob779

Howdy again fellas,

In this 2014 world of clone, replica acceptance vs. back in the day "fake" or "faker" mind se, would any of you clone my low mileage, unmolested 1966 Holiday Coupe into a 442 clone?

With the huge availability of aftermarket parts compared to 9 years ago not when I barned her, I was thinking why not. The unusual but not rare and not worth much money Holiday Coupe would be a perfect choice. I am going to have to pretty much tear it all apart anyway so what the hell.

I am trying to woodshed a "plan" I can live with and afford before I even begin.

P.S. My car already has a 66 442 hood anyway although it is going to need some massaging for dang sure.

classicmuscle442

My two cents, don't do it, bought a '70 Cutlass that PO had clone into a 442. At the time it seemed like a good idea, but regreted it after when it was time to sell. Car already had emblems, but I installed buckets and sport wheel. Would have got more $ if it was a nice Cutlass S instead of cloned 442, let alone putting another clone out there.

oldcutlass

Do what makes you happy and what you can afford. It's a blank slate, enjoy.

Sampson

X 2 to the Other Eric's comment above. Do whatever will make you get the car out of the barn and enjoy it. I wouldn't do it for resale purposes though. Not sure if you would recoup the money spent. I have waaaaaay more in my car right now than I could ever sell it for.

Kennybill

I would just sell it. PM with pictures and price. Just sayin. Ken

chadman

I look at this two ways. For a street car that is just a cruiser I don't like clones. To me it is like a CZ compared to a diamond. There is no other reason to do it other than represent the car as something it is not. On the other hand when it comes to race only type cars I highly prefer to see them cloned as 442's as opposed to cutting up a true 442 when you could have started with a much less colectible and valuable Cutlass.

txrob779

I never think about a monitary recoup and I certianly would never EVER misrepresent the car, never ever. I was just letting my mind wonder about.

Thanks guys

Nilsson

Put all that good money into cloning it guess what, you still have the same thing you started with. You will be a little lighter in the pockets though.

chadman

When I said "represent the car as something it isn't" I wasn't refering to at the time of resale. I meant to the casual observer.

droptopron

Its yours. Do it how you wish.

66400

Taillights and grills are available as repros for the 66 442 and I think they look better than the Cutlass parts.

Henry

Diego

It's your car so you can do as you wish. But there's nothing saying you can't make a Cutlass street machine.

Nilsson

I think a 66 Cutlass sleeper would be badass.

Koda

I wrote this on another thread

Point being, if you clone a car, one of three things will happen.

1. You'll convince everyone who sees it that it is a 442, when it's not, which is pretty much lying to everyone.

2. You'll clone it, miss something, convince most people that see it that it is a 442, and the knowledgeable people will see the goof, and realize that you are trying to clone it, and not only is that trying to lie to everyone, but getting busted for it.

3. Let's assume you ARE an awesome guy, and every car show has a sign out in front of the car saying it is a clone, and you just like the look of the 442 badges, etc, etc.....what happens when you sell the car? Not only will you not insist on the next owner being that honest as a condition for his buying it, but, even if you did, he'd BS you.

If you want a 442, buy one. If you want a bigger engine in your Cutlass, that's fine, go get one and go smoke people. It's easier, and more proper, to take a Cutlass and make it faster than a 442 with bigger engine and mods and stuff, and that's fine, but making a real 442 was the province of the factory, not us.

Sorry to ramble on, but I don't endorse anything that could deceive someone.

txrob779

Yeah Koda, I see your point and it makes much better sense.
Thanks for all the opinions....

Koda

Thanks. And, I'm sorry if I sounded like I questioned your honesty, because I don't. You care enough to ask about it, which is high marks in my book.

txrob779

Well I am old school, 2 generation, 50 yr old gear head. I still have a hard time getting my head around "clones" today but I thought there might be a overwhelming "hell yeah do it" consensus but I aint felling that one.

Peace

RAMBOW

If you are "concerned" with people saying you cloned it, then just put the 1966 442 specific trim on (grill, front fender scoops, taillights, trunk lip chrome) and leave off the 442 badges AND the cutlass badges. BINGO- Now its "Customized" but not cloned.

That was my plan, As i primarily just liked the '66 442 grill and taillights over the cutlass version- but wound up getting a good package deal on all the 442 trim & emblems from a car being parted out, so decided to put it all on mine. Eventually I'll get mine painted and be able to remove the hood spear and the quarter "cutlass" emblems, but for now i'm happy with it even thought its slightly incorrect.

Its your car, so forget what other people think. I don't build my cars for the NEXT owner to enjoy, I build them for me to enjoy.

Koda

Now that's a good idea.

txrob779

+1

Hell I abandoned my ego years ago but a really good idea. Why didn't I think of that?

sammy

+2. Some guy told me I had a nice SX clone? Huh?...told him it was a Cutlass with a hood and a thirsty 455.He then carried on to exclaim that I must have been trying to clone a 442...huh?...no, it is a Cutlass with a thirsty 455......

Bernhard

There are a lot of basket case 442's out there, find one and swap all the parts over as long as it is not for resale value. This way you save a real 442 from the crusher.
As long as the person is honest about it I have no problem with clones/body swaps.

nj_cutlass72

I'm sort of upgrading my cutlass to a 442 specs but I don't care to use emblems to give it clone look, I rather have folks appreciate a "beefy" cutlass

jag1886

I don't like the cloning stuff, if you want to upgrade the performance to 442 specs have at it. I think cloning is like people that get face lifts and look worse than they did to begin with.
Be proud of what you have and enjoy it.
The guy I bought my Cutlass from had ever single part to clone my car into a 442 and I said no way sell it to someone that has a 65 442 and needs the parts.

White_Knuckles

The new term is "Tribute Cars". Oh and as a bonus, they're often looking for big tribute dollars! So, they is what they is where buyers determine the value. Those large, Mecum type auctions get clones through where they don't toss any negative comments. Of course they are accurately represented. There must be a market for 'em.

Me? I like my Franken-Car. Half Holiday, Half-Whatever. She'd look good with a 442 hood to vent all that Hotrod goodness out! Doesn't matter, most guys that approach me ask, "hey what year Chevelle is that"? I simply reply "67" and leave it.

Bernhard

What if you have a real 442 and add the W parts?
I have no problem with up grades as long as people are honest about it.
I have a 442 and would like to add the ram air and fender wells is this frowned upon as well.
I say if you want to go ahead its your car

Eric Anderson

I say do want you want. If I could have walked in the dealer and ordered up my car in 1970 the boxes I would have checked off sure wouldn't be the car parked in my garage. Since I wasn't even born until 3 years after my car was built I figure it's up to me to check the boxes off that I want now.

RocketDevo

I think cloning a 442 is not to bad but i am not in favour of it. The main thing as far as next guy is concerned, is he can check the VIN. to see what the car was born with. I am however not in favour at all when it comes to W cars. There are far to many fakes out there and it puts into question the real ones, especially if they do not have the all important broadcast card. I know of a car 70 W30 car that was cloned and it was being sold several owners away from the person who cloned it and they were now trying to dump it as they knew they had been taken. The car was on Ebay and i messaged the seller that he to could be caught up in the tangle if he contined to mis-represent. This happen several years ago. I hope this helps in your decision. Thanks.

66400

VIN # will only tell the tale for 68-71 442's.

Henry

RocketDevo

You are correct.

MDchanic

Keep it as a regular Cutlass.

Why? Because at this point, there are probably twice an many 442s on the road as were actually made, and a regular Cutlass is therefore rarer.

I also think it's kind of cooler.

- Eric

Bernhard

This is the problem I have with so called original cars. When I worked in the auto body trade you could have a car come in that was very rare total rust bucket. Then came the boxes of factory parts. Fenders, doors, floors, rockers, trunk pan, floor braces, quarters, wheel wells, inner and outer. Weeks later you had a rust free collector car with a clean history no accidents and no rust.
To me the car was and will always be one big patch, over a spool of mig wire, not including spot welds and areas that we used the tig.
The car looked better than it ever did when it rolled of the assembly line thanks to base clear.
I would rather have a rust free body shell with all the original parts swapped over and have the owners be truthful about the body swap.
Do you think the guys that are selling the cars that are patched together are being truthful, every one that worked on the above car had training and certificates in there field. How many original cars do you think are patched together in a backyard body shop or hack autobody shop. I was in a shop about a year ago when a big dollar auction car was up on the hoist lets just say it was a 3 dressed up as a 9 a all original pile.

Boldsmobile

Your car only needs to please you and no one else.

You should make it look the way you want it to look.

Opinions are healthy because sometimes it makes you think of ideas that hadnt crossed your mind - ideas that appeal to you and sometimes asking leads you to better ideas.

Id compare asking someone else how my car should look with what style clothes i should wear. If i am a khaki button down shirt guy the tshirt and jean guy is going to say i should wear t shirt and jeans.

Make it a clone, make it a rat rod, make it a nostalgia drag car ...... what matters is what you want it to be for the use you intend it.

txrob779

All good points and here is a thought I have mentioned for a decade or more. Whilst I have been out of the car build scene for a decade I am a lifer gearhead so I have been to 100's of car shows, street cruises and parking lot shows. Including the 3000+ car show called Goodguys Lonestar Nationals at Texas Motor Speedway. I have had my car for 17 years and I have seen exactly ONE running and driving 1966 Holiday period, ONE. IMO the 1966 Holiday is a very uncommon car and after reading the replies and thinking about this thread I decided that it would be much cooler and have a much much cooler story to just restore the car as the Holiday that it is....because it is a cool *** car indeed.

I want to drive it and drive it kinda hard too so the drive train will be built to suit me....yep it will.

Thanks to everyone

69 holiday

you could just debadge it and let every fool that comes along guess. i will be in the process of this very soon and its great the questions i get already when it clearly says cutlass S plastered on the side of the car. kind of like with my job in the military. im in the airforce so i must fly planes, but i work in space, so they fly me up every morning to do my work.

69CutlassAlex

Why not add all of the upgrades you want but keep the Cutlass Badging. My 69 Cutlass S, has a 70 442 hood and rear wing and a 442 Grille but I will never change the Cutlass Badging. I like that its a unique Cutlass with Unique qualities. Also it seems like I see a lot more 69 442s than 69 Cutlass' if I see any at all that is.

Blackpage

Just playing Devil's Advocate here. My question to all those apposed to "cloning" ..... Would you feel differently if he was cloning a 1972 442 non W30 ?

I ask because of the fact that in 1972 the 442 was an appearance and handling package option and not a stand alone model. A standard 72 Cutlass S was essentially a 442 sans the boxed control arms and sway bars which can easily be bolted on. Same for the grills.

It then becomes a matter of appearance with striping and badging and not necissarily performance. I say this because there wasn't a standard 442 engine/performance package in 1972. You could get a 442 or a Cutlass S with a 350-2 or 4 bl or a 455-4bl. Other than the handling package what really is the difference ?

If a Cutlass S owner really prefers the look of 442 grills, stripes and a Ram Air hood and added them along with the handling package he can't put 442 badges on it when it essentially is a 442 ?

Even if he is up front and honest and says it didn't come from the factory that way ?

Even if he thinks the car will look awful with Cutlass badges and 442 stripes ?

I ask these questions because this precisely where I am at right now with my 72 Cutlass. I'm not trying to misrepresent anything to anyone. Just love the look of a 442 with a Ram Air hood.

Sampson

X 2 to Blackpage's comments above.
If you had a non air 72 and added air conditioning would we be having the same discussion? Build the car the way you will enjoy it. I plan to drive the crap out of my car. I don't mean go get ice cream on Sunday but to go on road trips. Vacations etc. That is why I decided to build a clone. I would worry too much about destroying an all original $50k W30 to drive and enjoy this way. The other thought process that contributed to me building a clone vs original is I get to build it the way I want it without worrying about destroying originality. What are the chances that you would find an all original w 30 442 in the color and with all the options you want?

MDchanic

I had an LS-6 '70 Chevelle SS (didn't find out that was what it was till years later when I found the build sheet, though), ripped out the heater, cut the firewall, installed A/C and power steering, and threw out the old parts.

Was that a bad thing? I don't know, but it sure made it easier to drive.

- Eric

White_Knuckles

Blackpage makes a case for individual choice. Well done. There are no hard rules and purists basically suck.

There's an element of deception here where for example, driving around a basic BMW badged as an "M" series is clearly - wrong. You're showboating something you don't have. Now having a classic car gussied up with let's say an SS badge that actually meets near factory spec is indeed a "tribute" to something great. I vote dandy fine in my book. Just gimme a break on the price please. Dang those 60's SS clones fetch big bucks!!